Battery banks and RV windows, worth it?

[Ducstrom]

Somebody convince me these fancy windows and lithium battery banks are worth the price.
If money wasn't an issue I would have just bought an earthroamer.
I decided to build a camper since I wanted something specific and I like building and learning about things.
I started out with ideas which turned to sketches, researching, more sketches, some testing and then finaly starting to build. I had great plans of lithium battery banks and dual acrylic windows, but now that I am at the stage of ordering these components I am having second thoughts based on price.

I will be installing 2 windows and a roof hatch.
For the fancy acrylic ones I've been quoted $3k all in (keep in mind this is CAD pricing)
If you have these types of windows would you buy them again? One of my main thoughts was cold weather camping and the condensation I used to get on the glass windows of the winnebago. This was simply solved by installing the clear plastic sheeting over the window frames to create an air gap. Since the acrylic windows have aluminum frames I am assuming they still won't be condensation free.

As for the batteries I've been looking at 100ah of renogy lithium with a 2000W inverter charger and a DC/DC charger with MPPT with 200 watts of solar. This set up will run me about $4k. My original intent was to run an induction cooktop but the cost is making me rethink this too.
To those of you who have faced similar delemmas what did you do and would you do it again?
Thanks!

Camper is a small truck camper that will be used for trips, camping, hunting and fishing. It will rarely if ever see a serviced campground. Think Capri cowboy size...

 

[billiebob]

$$$ if your sources are unlimited there are still ways to go bankrupt.... or divorced building an RV.

Building my own SquareDrop, sourcing free windows was the reason I did it. They were not RV windows, they were 1/4" plate glass sliders from a house built in the 1960s. Set in a wood frame and bedded in silicone I was sure they would break that first summer but 3 years and many thousand miles later they are intact. No, RV Windows are one of the best marketing scams ever. My next choice would be visiting a School Bus Graveyard to source windows but plate glass works fine too.

On batteries, lithium allows massive storage in a lightweight package. Important for a Tesla or i-phone but ridiculous in a tiny trailer. I'll be adding a battery, solar charger, fridge to my teardrop this spring but it will be a regular RV AGM battery. $140 for the biggest one.

No way to cut the cost of the solar panel, but at a buck a watt, 300watts for $300.00 is acceptable. My dilemna is picking the charger etc. I know I don't need an inverter. Eliminate the need for an inverter and save a grand.

Why do you need 120V ? Cook with propane or white gas.... either way you can do it for $100.00. 12V refrigeration. 12V LED lighting and headlamps with AAA batteries. Make ALL your IT ******** 12V rechargable. i-pad, not macbook. boil water on the stove, no need for a coffee maker. cook food fresh never need a microwave. Simplify ALL your systems.

Even refrigeration can be done on the cheap. I bought a Kooltron Cooler in a garage sale for $10.00. I do want a real fridge with a compressor and a fronr door which will cost a grand but 3 years later.... that Kooltron does it all on a 2 week trip.

I'm following this thread, always interested in what happens near home. Nakusp, BC is mine, curious where you live.

Here is the house my windows came out of,


And the trailer they ended up in...



The doors are just 1x4 plus 1/4" ProBoard Underlay with hardware store gate hardware.



All in except for the 5x10 deck trailer I have spent $800.00 and travelled 5000 kms in BC, Alberta, Washington, Idaho.
The most expensive single item was $100 for the translucent roofing panel.

 

[java]

I did dual pane windows.

Pros, glass stays sorta clear, a little better insulation. I did glass tho, was afraid of scratching acrylic.

Cons, still an alu frame, sweats like any other.

And I camp in the cold a lot. Lithium batteries don't like cold. I used 6v AGMs

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[Victorian]

We have used the arctic tern windows for several years. All pending on your ventilation and heating source the condensation on the aluminum frame should be minimal. You can’t fully avoid it. But it was never at a level that concerned me. Together with the blind assembly I think they are worth the money.

 

[rruff]

To those of you who have faced similar delemmas what did you do and would you do it again?
Thanks!

For me:
Windows: Glass, single pane, crank out hinged from the top, $69/ea. At night if it's cold an insulated cover goes on the inside. If it's cold during the day I'll move to a warmer climate.
Solar: 250W on the hood and 100W portable. ~$350.
Batteries: 150ah of used LiFePO4 cells soldered together. ~$300. If I did it again I'd probably just buy big cells from China. Everything is 12v.
Fridge: Electric, make ice when there is excess solar, then have days of buffer when there isn't.
Cooking: Propane
Heat: Propane (rarely used)

 

[dreadlocks]

First of all your LFP battery wont run a 2000W (166A) inverter with a 100A max output.. you'd want at least two LFP's for that.

Most of LFP's value as a boondocking bank is its ability to charge fast as hell, Ive got 650W of solar for my 100A LFP.. lets me dump about 40A of charge current into it and take it from nearly empty to full with only a few hours of direct sunlight.. If hooked up to a 0.4C DC charger you can drive a little bit every day.. like an hour or two and keep up with even heavy demands.. whereas with lead batteries, there's no way around the 8h charge time.. if you deplete your bank you have to drive 8h+ or get 8h of sunlight or run the generator for 8h assuming all are providing max charge the batteries will take.. more if it cant.

If you build out a LFP bank and dont take advantage of 0.4C charge rate til its basically full from every place you can get it, your leaving like one of the biggest gains of LFP behind.. I can use 60-70AH a day and easily get it charged back up every day with either solar or genset in no time at all...

 

[shade]

$4000 sounds pretty high for the general specs listed if that's just the parts budget.

 

[SquirrelZ]

Good windows are important to me, but how good is good enough? The Arctic Tern windows sure look good.... but they aren't cheap either! For cold wx, the double pane is essential. You might consider having just one window that can be opened. Fixed windows are usually cheaper and almost always more energy efficient.

How well insulated is your camper? How air tight? High end windows might be overkill.

For the electrical, review closely what you'll be powering and for how long each item is running to determine the size of your system. The 2k inverter seems like serious overkill. What ever battery you choose, you need to look closely at the manufacturer's specs and make sure that your charging devices are appropriate. The lithium and AGM batteries have very specific voltage requirements. Setting up a good electrical system takes a lot of time and attention to detail. There's a lot to be said with going with one brand like Victron to ensure that all of the parts work with each other. I'm actually surprised there aren't a lot more threads on electrical systems on this forum. The Sprinter forum has tons of threads on electrical systems.

I did a camper van conversion- Trojan 205 Ah AGM battery, a Sterling BBW 1212 battery to battery charger, a Sunmodule 270 watt rigid solar panel, a Blue Skies MPPT solar controller, and a Magnum MMS1012 inverter/AC to DC charger. The battery is certainly big and heavy. My primary draw on that is a Webasto heater in cold weather. I've seen on another forum that the Sterling BBW1212 is no longer sold in the US but is available in the UK. Not sure if you can get one in Canada. I'd definitely install one of those again. The Blue Skies MPPT controller has worked well, I'd use one of those again. What even brand you choose, an MPPT type controller is worth the extra $. The Magnum inverter is way too big and I rarely use it. I'd probably go with a smaller inverter, but that would also require a high quality AC to DC charger. CTEK makes a battery charger/MPPT controller. It was incompatible with my monochrystaline solar cell so I couldn't use it. I've read another post on this forum that that CTEK model has a poor MPPT controller so maybe its not such a good option.

I installed Motion Windows. They're made for boats and RV's. They're OK but I'd look for something better if I could turn back the hands of time.

I cook with propane.

I also have a Fantastic Fan in the roof. It's nice and moves a lot of air. Even with a custom fitted 1 inch foam insert/cover, its a cold spot in the winter. I'd probably look for a smaller roof vent.

Good luck!

 

[dreadlocks]

@shade yeah, thats more than mine.. ~$3740ish for 100AH BattleBorn w/650W HIT Solar and Honda 2200 Generator and 1200VA Inverter and a few more bits and pieces (battery monitor/relays/ac charger) and I spared little expense.

Ive got fridge/ice maker/coffee maker/toaster/microwave/crockpot/furnace and more I can run all off the battery indefinitely boondocking w/good solar conditions.. I can start dropping unnecessary loads w/less than ideal solar or start relying on genset for an hour or less a day to make up for it..

Its like a 30# battery, 80# of solar panels, 50# Generator.. my entire power system weighs in at ~160lbs and I can burn 1.2kWh a day comfortably with little to no effort on my part indefinitely.. which is amazing if you think about it, I could easily double that weight with just lead batteries alone to start to cover comparable needs.. and it still wouldn't be as good... this is where LFP's high premium starts to look more sane.. compared to like a titanium spork its got better return for the money.

 

[luthj]

We need to know more about your needs and wants before we can provide meaningful feedback. Some situations are better with lead acid, depending on usage, temps, budget (and weight).

As far as windows goes, the arctic tern units seem pretty nice. Build in shade/screen, no need for a custom trim ring, and can be latched open even in rain. The insulation value would be significant in cold weather camping, but also in hot weather, especially with the tight fitting shade to keep the solar gain down. If you don't actively heat/cool the cabin, then the cost doesn't make sense. The acrylic does scratch. You can put a clear 3m vinyl film on to reduce them, but it needs replaced every 3-4 years. Minor scratches can be polished out if needed.

 

[mobydick 11]

I was lucky and picked up new windows on KIJIJI . they are glass sliders but single pane . For power my gear trailer has 2 T105 Trojans hooked to a 700 w inverter . this will run a ARB 50 L for 3 or 4 days . then a Honda 2200 for recharge if not near a power hook up . The spacKap I am working on will get a Jackery 500 . I figure if the guy a Kimbo Campers see this as a good solution, then it will work for me . I looked at some of these $4000 dollar solar set ups and think ,man I can buy a lot of gas for the honda . But I am a low teck guy so probably not good advice . I have heard that Jackery is coming out with a 1000 soon.

 

[Ducstrom]

$$$ if your sources are unlimited there are still ways to go bankrupt.... or divorced building an RV.

Building my own SquareDrop, sourcing free windows was the reason I did it. They were not RV windows, they were 1/4" plate glass sliders from a house built in the 1960s. Set in a wood frame and bedded in silicone I was sure they would break that first summer but 3 years and many thousand miles later they are intact. No, RV Windows are one of the best marketing scams ever. My next choice would be visiting a School Bus Graveyard to source windows but plate glass works fine too.

On batteries, lithium allows massive storage in a lightweight package. Important for a Tesla or i-phone but ridiculous in a tiny trailer. I'll be adding a battery, solar charger, fridge to my teardrop this spring but it will be a regular RV AGM battery. $140 for the biggest one.

No way to cut the cost of the solar panel, but at a buck a watt, 300watts for $300.00 is acceptable. My dilemna is picking the charger etc. I know I don't need an inverter. Eliminate the need for an inverter and save a grand.

Why do you need 120V ? Cook with propane or white gas.... either way you can do it for $100.00. 12V refrigeration. 12V LED lighting and headlamps with AAA batteries. Make ALL your IT **** 12V rechargable. i-pad, not macbook. boil water on the stove, no need for a coffee maker. cook food fresh never need a microwave. Simplify ALL your systems.

Even refrigeration can be done on the cheap. I bought a Kooltron Cooler in a garage sale for $10.00. I do want a real fridge with a compressor and a fronr door which will cost a grand but 3 years later.... that Kooltron does it all on a 2 week trip.

I'm following this thread, always interested in what happens near home. Nakusp, BC is mine, curious where you live.

Here is the house my windows came out of,
View attachment 561554

And the trailer they ended up in...

View attachment 561555

The doors are just 1x4 plus 1/4" ProBoard Underlay with hardware store gate hardware.

View attachment 561557

All in except for the 5x10 deck trailer I have spent $800.00 and travelled 5000 kms in BC, Alberta, Washington, Idaho.
The most expensive single item was $100 for the translucent roofing panel.

That trailer looks great for only spending $800! I am way over that already and I've just got a shell which is still missing a roof. I knew that going into it though.
I am up in Dawson Creek, BC.

 

[Brewdiak]

i went with motion windows dual pane, 2 new ones that i cut into the ambo, and replacing 3 in the doors that were single pane. i also doubled up the interior walls to try my best to break the thermal conduction between outside and inside - reused the ambulance material which is some sort of synthetic fiberglass type of 3/4" sheets that is attached to the ambulance aluminum studs etc, then a layer of finish material over that attached only to the 3/4" synthetic. there will still be condensation but tried my best to reduce it as much as possible for efficiency. i'll be on lp heater that's built in so the exhaust is to the exterior - years ago used one of the small heater buddy things on small 1gallon tank and found that while it keeps things warm it also adds a lot of moisture from combustion

oh, and i stopped tracking costs .... i am not in debt on this project, but i do not want to know what i'm into it (yeah i have an idea, i just try to shove that idea into a dark corner and pile other things between me an it so that it can't get to me)

 

[Ducstrom]

Hey, thanks for all the replies! Sounds like I've got to ad a little more info.
I used to own a 2016 winnebago micro minnie, it was a decent trailer but I camp at the end of a lot of dirt roads and was finding the overall length of the trailer and my truck at almost 40ft was cumbersome on narrow muddy trails and it was stressing me out. I also found that something would need to be repaired at almost every trip and I didn't like that on something so new. It made me worried about what the future would bring for that rig. So I sold it.
I decided to build a smaller truck slide in camper. It's just me and the girlfriend, no kids in our future.
Walls are about 1 1/2" thick with 1" of rigid foam insulation. We camp throughout the year so all weather temps (it's -40C here today, not sure I'd bust the camper out in that). It'll be heated with a Webasto airtop. Itll have a popup but is completely usable without and the top will stay down during cold weather.
Electrical loads will be all LED lights, DC novakool fridge, small DC water pump, the webasto when needed, maxxair fan, and DC charging ports. AC loads will be a single induction cooktop that can move inside or out, a small AC water pump (for showers). That's it. It will definitely have 2 -100ah lithiums, I know that one won't cut it. 2 lithiums were included in that $4k price tag.

 

[Ducstrom]

i went with motion windows dual pane, 2 new ones that i cut into the ambo, and replacing 3 in the doors that were single pane. i also doubled up the interior walls to try my best to break the thermal conduction between outside and inside - reused the ambulance material which is some sort of synthetic fiberglass type of 3/4" sheets that is attached to the ambulance aluminum studs etc, then a layer of finish material over that attached only to the 3/4" synthetic. there will still be condensation but tried my best to reduce it as much as possible for efficiency. i'll be on lp heater that's built in so the exhaust is to the exterior - years ago used one of the small heater buddy things on small 1gallon tank and found that while it keeps things warm it also adds a lot of moisture from combustion

oh, and i stopped tracking costs .... i am not in debt on this project, but i do not want to know what i'm into it (yeah i have an idea, i just try to shove that idea into a dark corner and pile other things between me an it so that it can't get to me)

Haha, yeah I hear you on the costs. I have a growing pile of reciepts but I am sure I am going to double the budget if I want to build it the way I really want it. I went from a 1/2 ton to a 1 ton and don't worry about payload as much. Now I need to win the lottery so I don't have to worry about the cost either.