Bathing Question

roving1

Well-known member
Dude. Solar showers are like the most compact thing in the universe. If you think that is bulky your are. Pretty much hosed. Lol.

That said I use a collapsing bucket and 12 V shower head thingy. I just heat the water with my cooking stove and a pot and scoop and reheat the water untill it is at desired temp. It takes less then 15 minutes to heat 4 gallons up to temp this way.


 

ChasingOurTrunks

Well-known member
This is an older thread, but I know @JimboT you are looking at multi-months on the road from one of your other threads, so I'm guessing you are actively researching showers and so I'll share my experience. We've used a few systems. The "best" system will very much depend on individual needs, but for what it's worth:

1) We've used the Zodi system with a gas burner and battery water pump for years. Loved it and no complaints other than the water pressure was a bit disappointing, but there's only so much PSI a few D-cell batteries can create and it was very economical on water. It packed into a tiny case about the size of an ammo tin, which made it super easy to carry for the person who stole it from us, which brought us to our next system...

2) An eccotemp. This is a great little propane gas water heater, but it's not perfect. For starters, it's big. Ours is mounted in a pelican case for portability, and the case is about 30 inches by 20 inches by 10 inches deep. It also does not have it's own pump, so you need running water for it to work. We mounted a 12V RV pump on a pressure switch that the Eccotemp can hook up to. This gives us plenty of power and pressure but it also has an auto-shutoff so water use is VERY economical. I can't say how much water we use just for showering, but we generally fill a 5 gallon pail from the nearest water source with a dunk (so at most 2/3rds full) and we've had 4 people shower without running out of water in the bucket.

3) Our next system will again include the on-board pump. Having a 12v water pump on longer trips is super handy for more than just cleanliness. It can be used to hose stuff down, draw water from a creek into a container, push water through a filter, etc. and for the relatively small space of a couple of fittings and the pump, it's a very weight- and space- economical upgrade. For heat, we'll either be going with an under-hood heat exchanger, or going ultra simple and just heating water over a stove or fire, and then pumping from the lukewarm water bucket. Depending on our 12V setup, we would also consider an electric water boiler; Andrew St. Pierre White has installed one in his "Aussie Dream Tourer" build and I'm following that option to see how it works out.

On longer trips some kind of plan for personal hygiene is important -- to me, it's actually a safety issue, so whatever system we go with will have to be super easy to use so that a shower is just a normal and easy thing to just do. If there's too much setup or messing about, it will deter the user from showering, and thus introduce a safety risk. What the heck am I talking about showers being a safety item?

Well, for our domestic trips we are often in tick territory, and a shower gives you a really good opportunity to check for those little jerks before you get crippled by Lyme disease. Time is of the essence with a tick bite, so regular showers equal regular tick checks. I've seen hikers check for ticks at trailheads, but modesty usually prevents folks from checking the places where ticks like it best. In a shower, those places SHOULD get covered with soap, so you'll know right away if you have a hitch hiker!

Secondly, your skin is the largest organ in your body, and if it's compromised, you're going to have a bad time. If you are in good shape and conditioned to hike and adventure this is less of a concern, but if you are like many of us who spend most of our time in air conditioned offices, your skin won't be used to hard work and sweating and how all that interacts -- even while sitting still in a seat day after day. Sweat residue leaves behind tiny mineral deposits, and eventually that and the moisture equals chafing. Chafing -- even minor chafing, like around a seam in your underpants or where your seatbelt sits on your chest or neck -- is miserable, and can lead to infection quick if one isn't careful. A regular cleaning can remove some of these tiny mineral deposits and reduce the risk of chafing dramatically.

Thirdly, it's a huge safety hazard to climb into a 2-person tent after a few days of activity without a shower. That's how people "go missing" on these trips and their significant other swears up and down they just wandered off one night ;)

(That last one is tongue in cheek, but it's still nice to your travel companions to not stink).
 

Septu

Explorer
Dude. Solar showers are like the most compact thing in the universe. If you think that is bulky your are. Pretty much hosed. Lol.

That said I use a collapsing bucket and 12 V shower head thingy. I just heat the water with my cooking stove and a pot and scoop and reheat the water untill it is at desired temp. It takes less then 15 minutes to heat 4 gallons up to temp this way.



I use the same setup. Slightly different shower unit, but basically the same. So it means it's a bit more of a procedure then just stepping into my shower at home... but overall it's still fairly quick and works well.
 

alanymarce

Well-known member
Welcome to ExPo! ?


Well put.

If you want to move beyond a washcloth and a small pot of hot water, how much water do you want to use? Two low tech, low cost solutions that are also water efficient: a backpacking sized solar shower that's gravity fed, or a small garden sprayer, painted black.
Or a shower bag you hang from a tree, fill with water, and use - small and efficient. You don;t need it plumbed in. If it's cold, heat some of the water before filling the bag.
 

JimboT

Member
This is an older thread, but I know @JimboT you are looking at multi-months on the road from one of your other threads, so I'm guessing you are actively researching showers and so I'll share my experience. We've used a few systems. The "best" system will very much depend on individual needs, but for what it's worth:

1) We've used the Zodi system with a gas burner and battery water pump for years. Loved it and no complaints other than the water pressure was a bit disappointing, but there's only so much PSI a few D-cell batteries can create and it was very economical on water. It packed into a tiny case about the size of an ammo tin, which made it super easy to carry for the person who stole it from us, which brought us to our next system...

2) An eccotemp. This is a great little propane gas water heater, but it's not perfect. For starters, it's big. Ours is mounted in a pelican case for portability, and the case is about 30 inches by 20 inches by 10 inches deep. It also does not have it's own pump, so you need running water for it to work. We mounted a 12V RV pump on a pressure switch that the Eccotemp can hook up to. This gives us plenty of power and pressure but it also has an auto-shutoff so water use is VERY economical. I can't say how much water we use just for showering, but we generally fill a 5 gallon pail from the nearest water source with a dunk (so at most 2/3rds full) and we've had 4 people shower without running out of water in the bucket.

3) Our next system will again include the on-board pump. Having a 12v water pump on longer trips is super handy for more than just cleanliness. It can be used to hose stuff down, draw water from a creek into a container, push water through a filter, etc. and for the relatively small space of a couple of fittings and the pump, it's a very weight- and space- economical upgrade. For heat, we'll either be going with an under-hood heat exchanger, or going ultra simple and just heating water over a stove or fire, and then pumping from the lukewarm water bucket. Depending on our 12V setup, we would also consider an electric water boiler; Andrew St. Pierre White has installed one in his "Aussie Dream Tourer" build and I'm following that option to see how it works out.

On longer trips some kind of plan for personal hygiene is important -- to me, it's actually a safety issue, so whatever system we go with will have to be super easy to use so that a shower is just a normal and easy thing to just do. If there's too much setup or messing about, it will deter the user from showering, and thus introduce a safety risk. What the heck am I talking about showers being a safety item?

Well, for our domestic trips we are often in tick territory, and a shower gives you a really good opportunity to check for those little jerks before you get crippled by Lyme disease. Time is of the essence with a tick bite, so regular showers equal regular tick checks. I've seen hikers check for ticks at trailheads, but modesty usually prevents folks from checking the places where ticks like it best. In a shower, those places SHOULD get covered with soap, so you'll know right away if you have a hitch hiker!

Secondly, your skin is the largest organ in your body, and if it's compromised, you're going to have a bad time. If you are in good shape and conditioned to hike and adventure this is less of a concern, but if you are like many of us who spend most of our time in air conditioned offices, your skin won't be used to hard work and sweating and how all that interacts -- even while sitting still in a seat day after day. Sweat residue leaves behind tiny mineral deposits, and eventually that and the moisture equals chafing. Chafing -- even minor chafing, like around a seam in your underpants or where your seatbelt sits on your chest or neck -- is miserable, and can lead to infection quick if one isn't careful. A regular cleaning can remove some of these tiny mineral deposits and reduce the risk of chafing dramatically.

Thirdly, it's a huge safety hazard to climb into a 2-person tent after a few days of activity without a shower. That's how people "go missing" on these trips and their significant other swears up and down they just wandered off one night ;)

(That last one is tongue in cheek, but it's still nice to your travel companions to not stink).


I love the safety hazard comment. I have a 50 gallon boat tank and a marine grade 55 psi 3 GPM pump. I tried the joolca heater but it failed at altitude. I need a heater that will work up 10,000 feet. I do not want to mess with a heat exchanger so I would really like a propane on demand heater. Does your ecotemp work at altitude and if so how high have you used it?
 

JimboT

Member
Dude. Solar showers are like the most compact thing in the universe. If you think that is bulky your are. Pretty much hosed. Lol.

That said I use a collapsing bucket and 12 V shower head thingy. I just heat the water with my cooking stove and a pot and scoop and reheat the water untill it is at desired temp. It takes less then 15 minutes to heat 4 gallons up to temp this way.



I have the real estate on my truck to carry lots of water and a heater. Lot of Hot water = Lots of comfort. I backpack as well BTW the way so I am uncomfortable enough in any given year.
 

ChasingOurTrunks

Well-known member
I love the safety hazard comment. I have a 50 gallon boat tank and a marine grade 55 psi 3 GPM pump. I tried the joolca heater but it failed at altitude. I need a heater that will work up 10,000 feet. I do not want to mess with a heat exchanger so I would really like a propane on demand heater. Does your ecotemp work at altitude and if so how high have you used it?

Great question - we've used it quite a bit in the rockies of Alberta, and throughout our Alaskan trip which had a bit of altitude. I should note that these were warmer weather trips; as with any propane solution, if you get below zero you may face some problems of icing in the tanks and regulators unless you are able to keep the tank warm (I've never run into this with ours, but again, mostly warm weather use -- coldest was about 10 degrees C on a cool mountain morning, and it functioned no problem).

In terms of altitude, I rarely focus on it (Spoiled by fuel injection these days!) but I just checked on Google Maps, and we are frequently at or above 1400m (about 4500 feet) with no problems at all. I'm sure we've been higher, but I know I've never showered above the tree-line which sits just above our usual camp altitude in Alberta, around 4600 feet (depending on location). I know some routes in the US go beyond 10k feet, so this might not be super useful depending on where you go, but I would stand by the statement of it working flawlessly at 5k feet at least. You will likely be able to go past that by some margin before hitting problems. I have never used it at anything other than it's lowest setting, and that's plenty hot for a shower - at it's highest setting, it would be good enough to make a cup of coffee. This tells me there's a fair bit of wiggle room for altitude performance, but I can't say where the upper limit is....if I had time this sounds like a great excuse for a trip, and I just might try to squeeze one in before year's end and if I can, I'll run it through it's paces at higher altitudes to see how it does and report back.

The other thing you can do is recirculate in the bucket -- so if you are finding it not performing, you can put the shower head in the same bucket you are drawing water from, and circulate through the heater to get it pretty much as hot as you want, and then kill the heater and still use the rest of the system for your shower with the warm water from the bucket. This is functionally the same as heating a pot on the fire or stove and then dumping it into the bucket, but it's a lot easier in my opinion, and probably not the kind of thing you'd need to do often (only if you hit performance problems at high altitudes).

There is a trick to getting it working great consistently -- run the water through the system without the heat on until the whole system is primed full of water. Then turn on the heat, and it works flawlessly. If you try to just plug in and go without 'filing' the system (which takes about 15 seconds) it'll sputter and bang and seem to not work well. I should also mention that it is intended to run off a full sized propane tank, but with the use of a $10 adapter, it will work great off of the 1lb propane bottles too.
 

JimboT

Member
"Aussie Dream Tourer
Great question - we've used it quite a bit in the rockies of Alberta, and throughout our Alaskan trip which had a bit of altitude. I should note that these were warmer weather trips; as with any propane solution, if you get below zero you may face some problems of icing in the tanks and regulators unless you are able to keep the tank warm (I've never run into this with ours, but again, mostly warm weather use -- coldest was about 10 degrees C on a cool mountain morning, and it functioned no problem).

In terms of altitude, I rarely focus on it (Spoiled by fuel injection these days!) but I just checked on Google Maps, and we are frequently at or above 1400m (about 4500 feet) with no problems at all. I'm sure we've been higher, but I know I've never showered above the tree-line which sits just above our usual camp altitude in Alberta, around 4600 feet (depending on location). I know some routes in the US go beyond 10k feet, so this might not be super useful depending on where you go, but I would stand by the statement of it working flawlessly at 5k feet at least. You will likely be able to go past that by some margin before hitting problems. I have never used it at anything other than it's lowest setting, and that's plenty hot for a shower - at it's highest setting, it would be good enough to make a cup of coffee. This tells me there's a fair bit of wiggle room for altitude performance, but I can't say where the upper limit is....if I had time this sounds like a great excuse for a trip, and I just might try to squeeze one in before year's end and if I can, I'll run it through it's paces at higher altitudes to see how it does and report back.

The other thing you can do is recirculate in the bucket -- so if you are finding it not performing, you can put the shower head in the same bucket you are drawing water from, and circulate through the heater to get it pretty much as hot as you want, and then kill the heater and still use the rest of the system for your shower with the warm water from the bucket. This is functionally the same as heating a pot on the fire or stove and then dumping it into the bucket, but it's a lot easier in my opinion, and probably not the kind of thing you'd need to do often (only if you hit performance problems at high altitudes).

There is a trick to getting it working great consistently -- run the water through the system without the heat on until the whole system is primed full of water. Then turn on the heat, and it works flawlessly. If you try to just plug in and go without 'filing' the system (which takes about 15 seconds) it'll sputter and bang and seem to not work well. I should also mention that it is intended to run off a full sized propane tank, but with the use of a $10 adapter, it will work great off of the 1lb propane bottles too.


Thank you. The problem with the Joolca was it would not stay lit at all. I can handle inefficiency but at 10,000 feet it was inoperable. Camp Chef has had theirs to 9200 FT and they are confirming if it went higher. I have a Zodi that I have used horse packing and it worked well at altitude but it does not have the volume and pressure that I want.
 

ChasingOurTrunks

Well-known member
I was really curious about the altitude question so I did some digging found the following on Lowe's page -- the Eccotemp may not be for you. Go figure I've never had problems at 4500 ft....it's rated for 5k max, and after that who knows. Of course what it's rated for and what it'll do are two different things, but I'd be surprised if they engineered this thing to be twice as good as they claim it to be. I can see a 10%-20% margin, but not a 100% one.

From: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Eccotemp-P...quid-Propane-Tankless-Water-Heater/1001263880

Screen Shot 2020-09-03 at 12.26.58 PM.png
 

VikingVince

Explorer
Hot water using Coleman bottle top propane stove and a large sponge! :) Screen Shot 2020-09-03 at 3.48.18 PM.png
I have a Zodi extreme...the pressure is weak and you have to keep pumping it multiple times...plus it takes up quite a bit of room.
I'm not going to take it with me any longer....Hot water and a sponge is a lot easier and feels just as good.
 
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ChasingOurTrunks

Well-known member
Thank you. The problem with the Joolca was it would not stay lit at all. I can handle inefficiency but at 10,000 feet it was inoperable. Camp Chef has had theirs to 9200 FT and they are confirming if it went higher. I have a Zodi that I have used horse packing and it worked well at altitude but it does not have the volume and pressure that I want.

Hot water using Coleman bottle top propane stove and a large sponge! :) View attachment 609808
I have a Zodi extreme...the pressure is weak and you have to keep pumping it multiple times...plus it takes up quite a bit of room.
I'm not going to take it with me any longer....Hot water and a sponge is a lot easier and feels just as good.


These two posts sum up most of my experience, so zooming out a little from a specific product -- the ones that are great at heating (Like the Eccotemp) are terrible at pushing water through i.e. solar showers, stove top methods etc. There's a real benefit to having an on-board pump of some kind, and then you've got options on how you heat the water.

A big pot on a fire or stove is all you need if you have a 12V pump that can pull water from the pot and put it on your person (A sponge bath is always an option but we're talking showers so...a proper hose-off is part of the spec, in my book!). You've already mentioned you aren't a fan of heat exchangers, but the Helton units are extremely well regarded and robust -- I daresay "Bushproof" based on the reviews -- as long as you get a reputable installer to also give you a bypass should the exchanger fail (which is rare, but the redundancy is wise). In this setup, you are nearly immune from any issues as long as you have access to a bit of fluid to top up your rad should the exchanger fail, which again is rare, and if you have drinking water, you have coolant at least temporarily.

Once you have the pump, other options for heating include the ABS tube on the roof like the Road Shower, using a Zodi burner (Another example of great heat, poor pressure), the aforementioned heat exchanger, or an electric boiler.

Here's a few more options for heat from around the web, but I've not heard any direct reviews of these items from folks doing these kinds of trips -- maybe someone can chime in?

An all-in-one pump and propane heater from a reputable brand: https://www.mrheater.com/boss-xcw20-battery-operated-shower-system.html

A 12V in-bucket electric heater, which may work depending on your 12V system: https://www.amazon.com/Titanium-Por...ywords=12v+water+heater&qid=1599230130&sr=8-9

Eccotemp also offer a line of electric mini-tank heaters, which if you've got the payload can be nice -- they can run off your 12V system (with an inverter) and they can hold a few gallons of hot water, so you can heat all day, have a few gallons for a shower at night, and repeat the next day: https://www.amazon.com/Eccotemp-EM-...words=12v+water+heater&qid=1599230130&sr=8-22

Again, all of the above look great -- but there are a million ways to heat water. A pump is a game changer, and they are fairly cheap -- we spent $65 for an RV pump with an automatic shutoff, mounted in a tiny box on a bracket on our roll bar in the rear (taking up dead space). It was in there for 5 years, year round (including winters down to -40 degrees) and still works flawlessly. The reason I'm leaning into this topic so much is that we plan on reusing this pump on our current touring rig, but we're considering different heater options that take up less space.
 

mep1811

Gentleman Adventurer
Over the years, I've tried different systems. First I used a bucket and a cup. Boil water and mix with cold water and wash. I used that system everyday for about two years while living in Lima Peru in the 90's.

A bug sprayer worked well . I replaced the wand with a kitchen sprayer and would fill the container with half boiling water and half cold water. It worked great . It also worked great for rinsing dishes etc. Painting it black never really heated it up during the day. I used that system for several years.

The Helios system was the next system. Nice and small and provided a nice shower. Still had to boil water but a that was never a hassle. That worked for several years and I still have it.

I have a trailer now with a built in water heater and pump and with a shower enclosure , now showers are luxurious.
My wife now is more comfortable on trip being able to shower when needed. Rather than a fancy teak or bamboo shower mat , I just use a floor cover from the truck


I
 

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PCO6

Adventurer
2) An eccotemp. This is a great little propane gas water heater, but it's not perfect. For starters, it's big. Ours is mounted in a pelican case for portability, and the case is about 30 inches by 20 inches by 10 inches deep. It also does not have it's own pump, so you need running water for it to work. We mounted a 12V RV pump on a pressure switch that the Eccotemp can hook up to. This gives us plenty of power and pressure but it also has an auto-shutoff so water use is VERY economical. I can't say how much water we use just for showering, but we generally fill a 5 gallon pail from the nearest water source with a dunk (so at most 2/3rds full) and we've had 4 people shower without running out of water in the bucket.

I set up my Eccotemp L5 to be portable too as I use it in 2 trailers. In the one below I store it in the trailer and take it out when we camp. It and a 20 litre water jug all go inside the opening in the trailer. I installed a ShurFlo 12V pump inside and it has been great. It might seem crazy to suck water into the trailer only to pump it out again but it works well ... and no leaks! We almost always take our kayaks and the rack I built to transport them on top of the trailer doubles as a trailer mounted stand for the water heater.

My other trailer is for off road (see link below in my signature). My wife has no interest in it but I still like to have hot water when I'm out on my own. Like you I store it in a Peilcan case (it's a fake one) and everything but the pump fits inside. I've just mounted a 12V pump to the trailer and am sorting out the plumbing which is pretty straight forward.

My only complaint about the Eccotemp is the shower head. The spray is fine but the on/off switch is terrible. It usually takes 2, often wet, hands to make it work. I just replaced it with one with a simple push button switch.

20-06-26 1.JPG
 
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ChasingOurTrunks

Well-known member
I set up my Eccotemp L5 to be portable too as I use it in 2 trailers. In the one below I store it in the trailer and take it out when we camp. It and a 20 litre water jug all go inside the opening in the trailer. I installed a ShurFlo 12V pump inside and it has been great. It might seem crazy to suck water into the trailer only to pump it out again but it works well ... and no leaks! We almost always take our kayaks and the rack I built to transport them on top of the trailer doubles as a trailer mounted stand for the water heater.

My other trailer is for off road (see link below in my signature). My wife has no interest in it but I still like to have hot water when I'm out on my own. Like you I store it in a Peilcan case (it's a fake one) and everything but the pump fits inside. I've just mounted a 12V pump to the trailer and am sorting out the plumbing which is pretty straight forward.

My only complaint about the Eccotemp is the shower head. The spray is fine but the on/off switch is terrible. It usually takes 2, often wet, hands to make it work. I just replaced it with one with a simple push button switch.

View attachment 609972

That's nearly identical to our setup, right down to the brand of pump and the Scepter water tank if we aren't near a creek or easy water (otherwise I use the bucket method I mentioned and save the Scepter for drinking water) -- ours was just based out of the back of a JK, but otherwise the water would pump through the Shureflo on the roll bar and back out. I 100% agree with you on the shower nozzle too -- we use a garden hose sprayer which is much easier to use with wet soapy hands.
 

PCO6

Adventurer
That's nearly identical to our setup, right down to the brand of pump and the Scepter water tank if we aren't near a creek or easy water (otherwise I use the bucket method I mentioned and save the Scepter for drinking water) -- ours was just based out of the back of a JK, but otherwise the water would pump through the Shureflo on the roll bar and back out. I 100% agree with you on the shower nozzle too -- we use a garden hose sprayer which is much easier to use with wet soapy hands.

Now that's funny. We must have read all of the same reviews before we made our decisions.

A garden hose sprayer is a good way to go. I ended up with the one below. My biggest hesitation was that it is chrome (plastic). I think it's the only shiny thing on my trailer! It works well ... so far in my driveway anyway.

 

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