Are your expedition/overland vehicles auto, or stick?

Dipodomys

Observer
Newer Toyota autos are decent

There's been some good discussion on pros and cons here so I won't rehash. But here's my opinion, and it is just that...my opinion. I've always had manuals too, and generally thought they were the only way to go. When I bought my 2008 Tacoma I decided to go with the auto and have been very pleased. Autos have come a very long way from even 10 years ago. The power is great, and it shifts so smoothly you can't even feel it. In sand and mud it's wonderful, and you have much more control over wheel spin. Ditto for rock crawling. "Creeping" is much easier and less hard on the truck, driver, and passengers.

The latest Tacoma autos have a full range of manual gear selection, and I drop into lower gears all of the time to provide engine braking on hills, etc. I live in San Francisco, and with all of the hills around here that feature really comes in handy. Even on the freeway, sometimes I'll pop it into forth if I need to slow down a bit when traveling down a downgrade or if I'm coming up behind some slowpoke. It took a little getting used to the gear selection "gates," but I love it now.

Gas mileage on these trucks is nothing to write home about, and I doubt if the difference between manual and auto is substantial. I get about 17.5 mpg, with a stock tire size and a few bolt-on mods. Power output to the rear wheels may be marginally less with an auto due to the oft-mentioned power loss through the auto, but that issue has become less relevant as engines have become more powerful and autos have gotten better. A moot point, if you ask me. I'm very pleased with the power on my truck, and have never complained about it or even thought how it would be nice to have a few more HP. In that sense, the latest generation of Tacomas are leaps and bounds above the earlier vintages.

In fact, it is likely that people formed their negative impressions about autos in Toyotas back when the trucks were truly underpowered. My 1984 with the 22R four-banger was hopelessly pathetic. It couldn't hold 65 on the freeway if there was even the slightest incline or even a headwind. For a time back in the mid-1990's I worked for a spell as a salesman at a Toyota dealership in Tucson (not the high point of my life, I can tell you), and at that time Toyota had the 3.0L V6. With the auto it was a dog. I mean really awful. Slow and clunky. Things have come a long way since then. Better engines, better transmissions. Night and day, really. And you know what, my pathetically-underpowered 1984 only got about 18 mpg on it's best day. Now my 2008 has twice the power and is twice the truck than the mini-trucks of the old days. It's a double cab and has an auto trans. I can carry four people, load it up with gear, and still haul *** up the hills. And I get almost the same mileage as the itty-bitty '84. Amazing.

In the end it's what you like. But I'd definitiely check out the autos before you discount them.
 

OldSven

Explorer
I have had manuels in all but one of my wheeler's and still tend to lean on a good old manuel. There are time's when an auto would sure be nice like pulling a trailer up and through a trail would be a lot less stress on a clutch but being able to pick your gears when you want them not when the truck thinks it knows best is sure nice:) Also coming down a trail in 1st 4low with a stick seems to do much better than having to use your brake all the way down to maintain a certain speed.
 

cmayer

New member

Good article! Take the : off the linked quote to get to the site. http://www.toyotaoffroad.com/Articles/Information/4x4Tips.htm

I learned how to drive on a stick and just prefer them for some reason. My 4runner is a stick and is a beater so it gets abused a lot more on the trail. For me the runner is a toy and as such I want it to be fun for me, so a stick was necessary for me. The F250 is the family hauler and I spend a lot of time behind the wheel in traffic. Honestly I wouldn't want anything other than an auto for it. I like being able to hop in put it in D.

I guess it's mostly just personal preference these days because newer vehicles are so good in both auto and stick that it's really just up to the end user to decide.

I would hate to have my '89 22re with an auto behind it though; it's gutless enough with a stick :sombrero:
 

BigAl

Expedition Leader
Are your expedition/overland vehicles auto, or stick?

Unless you are being paid to deliver a small pox vaccine to the southern tip of Africa, I assume you overland/expediton travel for fun, right? What do you like to drive for fun. My DD will always be auto. My fun vehicles are sticks when possible.
 

elcoyote

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0004
366,000 miles on my factory original AX-15 5 speed manual. it is just now starting to exhibit some syncro wear. While a manual can be a bear in bumper to bumper traffic, I like feeling more connected to vehicle operation.
 

Mrknowitall

Adventurer
Final drive ratios

In the 2005+ Tacomas, the axle gearing is the same for the manual 6spd and 5spd auto. the OD in the automatic is about 0.7, while the MT has about a 0.85 OD. that means you will have slightly lower cruising RPM. In some other thrucks, like 2000-2004 V6 Tundras, the AT trucks get a 4.30 gear vs the MT's 4.10. That makes cruising RPM identical. With the gears in the Taco being the same, though, the MT deals a lot better with bigger tires. IN an AT, you probably won't be happy without a re-gear.
 

86Runner

Member
I wonder what the gearing is on those, though. If the manual is geared lower than the auto, that could explain the discrepancy right there.

Bingo, at least in the 3rd gen 4Runners, this was the case. I believe that the overdrive on the auto was 0.705 and on the manuals, 0.838.

To answer the original question, both my 86 and 99 4Runners are sticks - I didn't want an auto.
 

devortex

Adventurer
This thread came along at a good time for me...

I recently had to sell my Land Cruiser (divorce sux!) and my current DD is a 7 year old F-150 2wd which has little value and I'll probably trade as a down payment. I'm seriously looking at a new ('11 or '12) Tacoma 4 door Off Road Edition. I like this truck as it gives me passenger capability, still has a decent sized bed for hauling but appears to be relatively trail ready out of the box. I can then gradually build it into the expo rig that my LC used to be. Best of both worlds, still be able to haul some stuff, light towing like my F-150 and get me to the wilds like my LC.

Here's the conundrum. Do I go with the auto or the stick? I've driven both off road and really don't have a preference either way. Both have advantages and disadvantages. The new Tacoma has a nice auto with the ability to select gears easily, hill decent control and somewhat better mileage than the manual. I'm pressing my old SVO Mustang into DD action but I'll still wind up driving the truck to work occasionally and LA traffic in a stick shift truck would get tiresome.

Based on this, I'm clearly leaning toward the auto...guess I'm wondering if someone can talk me out of it?
 

phsycle

Adventurer
My trucks will always have auto transmissions. Last thing I want to do after a long day is shift. Never had any problems with any of my Toyotas. Just keep on top of fluid changes.

devortex - I'd personally go auto without a question. The 5-sp auto is a great transmission.
 

VanIsle_Greg

I think I need a bigger truck!
I have owned probably 50/50 auto and std trans vehicles. I prefer a std trans in my cars, and while my new 2003 Dakota Club Cab was ordered with a stick, it was hard to sell with one. I had at least 4 or 5 people walk away from it, and it was cherry minty fresh as new condition. In hindsight I wish I had ordered it as an auto.

My Cherokee is an auto, and I like it. I drive it hard, not a lot of offroad, but when I do it has performed flawlessly. The AW4 is a stout box, and many go 300,000+ KM with only basic maintenance. There is the issue of 1-2 gear on them, it will pop into 2nd when you don't want it to. There is a nice mod to fix that however and you can lock it into first with a simple toggle switch...that would be the good side of electronics, a bypass. Not sure if you can do this in a Taco old or new?

It really comes down to personal taste, intended use and so on. Modern day autos are very good and should last a long time. A standard is well, a standard... reliable, easier to fix and dependable. If you are worried about electronics having issues on your new 4WD transmission... don't get a new 4WD, get an old one!! EVERYTHING on new vehicles is electronic.
 

dyogim

Explorer
My 2000 V8 tundra only came in auto but, I'm happy with. However, I converted the push button transfer case to manual. Much much better.
 

Mattm94

Observer
Comes down to preference. That said, a slushbox is where it's at, but so is IFS.

Never had ANYTHING that wasn't stick and swore it would never happen... till 98 4Runner and then 02 DC... I would NEVER go back, esp for an expo.

Never had an issue navigating my auto shifter and selecting my own shift point with the auto. Even a window licker could do it.
In the event of emergency, ANYONE, even a 10 year old, can drive you in the auto if you're not able.
Better mileage from rigs that were same/same other than the auto/5pd.
Better offroad, and no crawlbox necessary other than straight up rock crawling.
Less perceived fatigue to the driver on long trips, especially in the hills or towing.
Easier starts and shifts on grade with the auto, esp. with heavy loads.
Less shock load and more forgiving on drivetrain with the auto.
Install a healthy tranny cooler and temp gauge, use good fluid and keep it fresh, and the auto is at least as reliable as any 5 speed, and never requires a clutch or T/O bearing project.
A FUBAR tranny in BFE is still a FUBAR tranny in BFE, auto or stick.

Only truck to ever have a tranny failure was an 86 Extra Cab 5 speed, and went 90 miles in reverse to get to a fix.
 

lostdreamer

New member
Are your expedition/overland vehicles auto, or stick?
All my previous cars have been manual 'boxes. I'm english, they generally come that way in this part of the world.

The new car is an auto. Why?

I got fed up with having three pedals but only two feet. If I stalled on a rocky assent then trying to hold it on the brake to stop rolling back, let the clutch out to restart and put on enough throttle not to stall again was a pain in the bum.

I like doing my technical driving softly, slowly and carefully. I find it reduces how wrong things go when they go wrong slowly and gently. Autos are really good at slow. A little bit of left foot braking, a lot of slip on the torque converter and you can loose a traffic light grand prix to a tortoise.

Gearbox settings. I have more. Manuals don't have 'park' for when I stop to take a photo on a hill steep enough I don't trust the handbrake. Yes, I can leave it in gear but even then I don't have the 'box just locked solid. They don't do clever anti-rollback tricks making hillstarts a complete non issue. As for the lack of gear control I have yet to find an auto that doesn't have options to max out which gear it uses. It won't change up any higher than you want it to. It might downshift if it feels the need, but downshifts are rarely a bad thing - and being able to downshift by just flooring the loud pedal and not have to worry about loosing momentum when I sink the clutch, that's cool too.

Ergonomics. It's one less thing that I have to do. I select 'forwards', steer and enjoy the countryside. When I am out and about in the car, I am probably out and about all day. For days at a time. Making it easier and more relaxing is big and clever, because it means I get as much fun with less effort. So I get more fun, because I have more energy to do stuff rather than get to camp and pass out.

'Let the car do the work' was the advice the offroad instructor gave me when he was teaching me to drive off piste. In context he was taking about gear selection, but it applies more generally as well.
 

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