Anybody else want a small USEABLE 4X4?

[luthj]

Yeah, for some reason niche usage (or just odd) people think that large multi-billion dollar corporations should bend to their will. While they do make mistakes, the fact that all of the major brands have moved away from small single cab trucks says something. Being capitalist corporations beholden to shareholders, I wonder what that is. Hint, it starts with $$$$$.

There are cases (many actually) where social pressures drive vehicle choices. For example, how many trade workers and service personnel suffered with cramped E series, or truck service beds. All the while their European counterparts enjoyed standing room, dry gear, and working space, inside of high roof "euro" style vans. It took almost 15 years for them to cross the pond, and still folks wont buy them cause they look weird, or aren't "what we use". Its kinda ironic, cause I have seen folks ridiculed for driving stock vehicles (think anti-overland chic). Who drives a Jeep JKU without 37s? I mean seriously?

 

[shade]

Strawman. Not an effective conversation technique.

Please point out the logical fallacy in my post. Simply disagreeing and saying you can't converse with me doesn't refute anything.

 

[6gun]

I really had no ideal this topic would bring out such heated discussions! I was just venting(bitching) because nobody makes the truck I want to buy anymore.

If I have to choose full-size I will more than likely go F250 for the simple fact of the few times a year I do need to tow it will be better suited. Plus with a camper/possible toy hauler in the future it opens up what can be bought to fill that role. If so it will replace my old 83 Bronco(tow rig/work truck) and my 98 Explorer(errand runner/weekend car). As well as enabling me to do away with my 18ft bumper pull car trailer and my 6x12. Then I'll get my gooseneck back from my friend for trailer duty.

Sent from my LG-H700 using Tapatalk

 

[Peter_n_Margaret]

I was just venting(bitching) because nobody makes the truck I want to buy anymore.

I suggest that maybe they do, they are just not sold in the USA?
Cheers,
Peter

 

[6gun]

I suggest that maybe they do, they are just not sold in the USA?
Cheers,
Peter

I've often said "The world's revenge on the US for kicking so much booty in WWII was to keep all the cool cars/trucks/motorcycles away from us" I guess it goes back to the old "Want what ya can't have" thing. I have made many idle threats to have my buddy(import/export guy) bring me something over that at least has a good drivetrain to swap into a US spec small truck but just haven't bothered. I'm trying to cut back on projects not grow more!

 

[luthj]

I would argue he was using sarcasm. While not the best of rhetorical methods, it is a bit different than strawman. I would also suggest you haven't sufficiently demonstrated that a significant number of buyers want single cab pickups. Though if I interpret your argument correctly, you are saying that single cab buyers were convinced to buy a extended cab, not because the bigger more expensive truck was better, but because of a collective effort to up-sell all buyers?

This is applicable across all vehicles lines. People have been buying ever larger vehicles since the mid 80s. Thats why ford dropped out of most sedan market segments, everyone wants the cross overs and SUVs.

 

[luthj]

For reference in 2017 mid sized pickups were about 450k sales. Full sized pickups were over 2 million. I can imagine that a compact pickup would be even lower sales numbers. Spread among the many brands, that would be tiny sales, not enough to justify the cost.

 

[AbleGuy]

II was just venting(bitching) because nobody makes the truck I want to buy anymore.
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I think that term is “ventriculating.”
?

 

[shade]

You stated a deliberate misinterpretation and tried to pass it off as equivalent to my statement. That's a strawman. It's disappointing, at best.

If I didn't summarize something you said correctly, that's simple to clear it up. Here's how that works:

I didn't intend to misinterpret your post. If I did so, it was accidental. That's what I thought was your position, and if I got it wrong, please set me straight.

Pretty simple if you honestly want to have a discussion. Otoh, if you just want to post your opinions without discussion, this isn't the best format for that.

I also noticed that you didn't respond to anything else I mentioned in that post. Taking offense to derail a discussion is a commonly used tactic. I hope you aren't availing yourself of it in an effort to avoid having an actual discussion.

 

[AbleGuy]

Totally regretted only buying a F150 today...What if I suddenly had to save the world by hauling a gooseneck trailer!!!!!!!!!!

My ‘03 Chevy k2500hd has a gooseneck hitch in the bed. I’m probably gonna be selling it soon, if you’re interested.?

 

[AbleGuy]

Being capitalist corporations beholden to shareholders...

Supposedly they’re starting to move away from that now:
The CEOs of nearly 200 companies just said shareholder value is no longer their main objective
(https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/19/the...-value-is-no-longer-their-main-objective.html)

It will be very interesting to see what changes that brings.

 

[shade]

Because real estate and depreciation cost money. If a dealer has products "a" and "b" for buyers "A" and "B" and they know that 70% of "A" buyers can be convinced to buy product "b" but 0% of "B" buyers will buy product "a" then they know they can cover almost every buyer with just one product. That's all the incentive they need.

Consider that for example Ram sold more than a half million pickup trucks last year. If just 5% of them were single cabs (remember that these are utility vehicles too, not just family wagons) they sold more single cab Rams than Chevy sold Corvettes and Corvettes don't get to benefit from using 90% the same parts as another vehicle, being buildable on the same assembly lines with the same fixtures with the same advertising and support budget attached to them. If it's worth manufacturing 25000 Corvettes it's worth manufacturing 25000 single cabs. But if a guy walks onto a dealer lot looking for a Corvette you won't be able to talk them into a Malibu.

What's the difference between that explanation for the demise of the regular cab truck, and the demise of the station wagon? Or the manual transmission?

 

[shade]

Supposedly we’re finally starting to move away from that:
The CEOs of nearly 200 companies just said shareholder value is no longer their main objective
(https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/19/the...-value-is-no-longer-their-main-objective.html)

It will be very interesting to see what changes that brings.

It's nice to see that some of the wealthiest people that have ever lived are no longer solely concerned with being the wealthiest people that have ever lived.

I agree. It will be interesting to see if that's anything more than PR pablum.

 

[AbleGuy]

Yeah, for some reason niche usage (or just odd) people think that large multi-billion dollar corporations should bend to their will.

I really had no ideal this topic would bring out such heated discussions. I was just venting(bitching) because nobody makes the truck I want to buy anymore.

Some very interesting convo’s going on here today. It’s made for some good, stimulating reading today, y’all. Thx for taking turns on the hot seat. Seriously.

Apropos of some of these comments, my biggest (and sadly unrealistic) dream for the absolutely ideal, fun DD Truck for me (which won’t ever get built, sigh...see 1st quote above), is a simple 4wd single cab, LB with some expanded extra room behind the front seats for my gear. No second set of rear seats there please (I’m never going to need to haul other folks) but I’d like the extra gear room and to not have that damn folded up seat be in my way. Ford actually made a half ton like this year’s ago. The LB would be for camping in the back of the truck. I’d like this mostly to keep the WB as short as possible. In ‘01 I made the lust driven mistake of buying a fully loaded, ex-cab, LB full size 4x4 pickup. Trying to maneuver that @165” WB, almost 21’ long big boat was a misery. I couldn’t find a house with a garage big enough to park it in either! And making a U-turn? No way, forget it man! My sweetie pie would not drive it to the grocery store because she found parking it was a PITA and very quickly I wound up not driving it much too. So I sold it about 7 years later with less than 21,000 miles on it.

I know of course that my personal unicorn won’t ever be built. I’m just dreaming and drooling, as usual. “If you want it, they will build it” just isn’t the same philosophy as “If you build it, they will come.” Sighing again ☹

 

[6gun]

Supposedly we’re finally starting to move away from that:
The CEOs of nearly 200 companies just said shareholder value is no longer their main objective
(https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/19/the...-value-is-no-longer-their-main-objective.html)

It will be very interesting to see what changes that brings.

It's nice to see that some of the wealthiest people that have ever lived are no longer solely concerned with being the wealthiest people that have ever lived.

I agree. It will be interesting to see if that's anything more than PR pablum.

If a CEO says shareholder value is no longer their main objective then they should be fired immediately!

If I find out that any company I'm invested in has made this "Pledge" my stock will be sold immediately! I am a capitalist through and through. You wanna do good with YOUR money, that's awesome I encourage it! You wanna do good with MY money, you better damn well talk to me first about it! Bad enough the gov't does it, I'm not voluntarily allowing someone to decide where my money goes!