Amazon rescuers find ravine crash couple in MB Unimog

[dzzz]

From the blog, it sounds like the Brasilian government's effort to make the road an all-weather highway, with modern bridges and an armored surface (read: a gravel road) is about half done.

I'm surprised how desolate the road seems from their blog entry. It would be interesting to know if the area drivers are currently using it at all. The ravines look deep enough that fording the water doesn't seem practical.

I think it would be extremely difficult to raise that truck with a truck mounted winch. Especially with the nose down orientation. Not to mention that a hydraulic winch wouldn't have power.

Undoubtedly a traumatic experience. Hope they get re-energized and continue.

 

[Victorian]

Winch is hydraulic and will only work with engine running. who knows if the engine was running at all... and then it could also be that the winch was mounted on the front at that moment and they haven't been able to pull it out and mount to the back.

in any case, it has a good ending!

 

[rblackwell]

Plenty of other reasons why you should take an 8 ton truck into the jungle - just compare the lifestyle of living next to/on top of your Patrol vs living inside a Mog. I definitely won't be spending two or three driving around the world in a Patrol. Little trucks are good for short trips, not for overlanding.

Absolutely!!

We saw lots of Old Mogs in the jungles of Peru and Ecuador. They seem to be the workhorse of choice for loggers who need to pull cut timber from the middle of the jngle to where a more conventional truck can pick them up.

 

[rblackwell]

Why do you need a windshield to drive out? I've had a Landy that was fun without, and a 150mph car that didn't have one from the dealer! Most Harley riders seem fine with decent sunnies too! A square cab Mog only has flat glass too, so one reason to take it rather than a U500 with a nice big curvy thing

A rear mounted electric winch and a few snatch blocks and they would be out?

After that though I think at least one cup of tea would be required before normal service was resumed!

Jason

The problem with the electric winch theory is where do you get a 30,000 - 40,000 lb rated electric winch.

That Mog weighs somewhere between 18,000 - 25,000 lbs (my upcoming U500 with camper weighs 25,000) - call it 20,000. To recovery that mog nose down in creek would usually (on advice from recovery experts) need a winch with a capacity of 2x or 3x the vehicle weight. Thats means a 40-60,000 lb winch. As far as I can tell that kind of winch is only available in hydraulic. Thats without thinking about anchor points, line length etc.

Rob

 

[grizzlyj]

snipped "need a winch with a capacity of 2x or 3x the vehicle weight. Thats means a 40-60,000 lb winch.

Rob"

I agree with 2x or 3x the weight.

So why not a batch of snatch blocks and a lightweight means of extending the pull? With a scenario like driving around on rough tracks on holiday I don't see the need for a big front winch at all. If you don't think you'll get through you turn round, not winch forward and hope surely? Its not the same as a weekend getting buried in mud with your mates.

So for a just in case recovery scenario a big enough rear mounted electric winch with a fair few snatch blocks would be cheaper and lighter than a hydraulic system, and with those snatch blocks you could rig a front pull if you really wanted. One huge winch with one line is Jeep thinking which IMHO is not applicable A bag full of synthetic rope to extend the pull and that would do me

But if you have nothing to winch off and are alone you need to dig a lot or wait for an anchor to drive by

 

[grizzlyj]

News update via Atkinson Vos newsletter flyer;

"We all saw it in the news several weeks ago when a British couple and their Unimog camper fell down a ravine in the South American Amazon, but recently stories about Bruce and Leslie Scott have somewhat died down. We have spoken to Bruce on the phone since their accident and he told us that after 10 days of lying on its side in the jungle (during which it was looted by local people) the Unimog was able to drive 300kms out of the jungle entirely on its own power. We thought this was pretty amazing. To read some more about this special Unimog please click here"


So from; http://www.unimogs.co.uk/newsletter.asp


"UPDATE ON THE AMAZON COUPLE & THEIR UNIMOG
Posted 02/11/2011 at 15:55:00 by Esme

The couple had driven over hundreds of identical bridges during their travels, but although this one looked secure it turned out it was termite ridden and severely weakened on the inside. The picture on the right is how the Unimog looked once it was on its feet again.

Once back in Manaus the mog went to a Mercedes workshop there and has been undergoing repair work since. After a few problems Bruce was tempted to send the Unimog back to us here to have work completed but unfortunately shipping costs proved too expensive.

After completing the most essential work the Unimog will be fit for driving away and continuing on its travels down to Venezuela. It will return to the UK at a later date for full repairs."

 

[charlieaarons]

The problem with the electric winch theory is where do you get a 30,000 - 40,000 lb rated electric winch.

That Mog weighs somewhere between 18,000 - 25,000 lbs (my upcoming U500 with camper weighs 25,000) - call it 20,000. To recovery that mog nose down in creek would usually (on advice from recovery experts) need a winch with a capacity of 2x or 3x the vehicle weight. Thats means a 40-60,000 lb winch. As far as I can tell that kind of winch is only available in hydraulic. Thats without thinking about anchor points, line length etc.

Rob

I think my rear hydraulic winch (6.8 metric ton), perhaps with a snatch block, would have handled the recovery. Looked like lots of trees. Presuming the motor was running of course.

Charlie

 

[rblackwell]

I agree with 2x or 3x the weight.

So why not a batch of snatch blocks and a lightweight means of extending the pull? With a scenario like driving around on rough tracks on holiday I don't see the need for a big front winch at all. If you don't think you'll get through you turn round, not winch forward and hope surely? Its not the same as a weekend getting buried in mud with your mates.

So for a just in case recovery scenario a big enough rear mounted electric winch with a fair few snatch blocks would be cheaper and lighter than a hydraulic system, and with those snatch blocks you could rig a front pull if you really wanted. One huge winch with one line is Jeep thinking which IMHO is not applicable A bag full of synthetic rope to extend the pull and that would do me

But if you have nothing to winch off and are alone you need to dig a lot or wait for an anchor to drive by

Obviously I thought of "snatch blocks" - but that only changes the form of the problem. Its now a question of line length but more importantly battery capacity. How long can you run an electric winch without the engine recharging the batteries.
I just don't believe that vehicle, with engine disabled, was self recoverable. If the engine would run the story is entirely different.

We could also discuss - "never travel alone" - but thats not practical for overlanding.

 

[Iain_U1250]

I'm with Jason on this one - a few snatch blocks and a decent electric rear winch (with enough batteries to power it) . I've got a 7.5 ton winch front and rear, that allows me to "pull through" if the going gets tough, or to chicken out I've got 5 Optima 31T 75 AH batteries with 1100CCA each to power them and 50m of Dynamic rope as well.

As far as the 2-3 time load, that's would not be the case in that situation, the 2-3 time comes from getting stuck in mud or deep sand where you have bottomed out the truck, from the photos it looks like the surface was fairly solid - and if the anchor was far enough back and the rope had something to run over - like a log, the line pull would not be that high. I would still go for at least one snatch block though, less strain, lower power draw etc.

We recovered a Samil 50 (10 ton truck) out of a ditch whilst I was in the Army after the driver fell asleep at the wheel. All we had was length of wire, a Land Rover and two double pulley snatch blocks. It was not a deep as that, but was pretty steep and at least two truck lengths in. I'm not sure what the line-pull a Land Rover can generate, but it only weight 2.5 tons max so can't be much more than that.

I agree with 2x or 3x the weight.

So why not a batch of snatch blocks and a lightweight means of extending the pull? With a scenario like driving around on rough tracks on holiday I don't see the need for a big front winch at all. If you don't think you'll get through you turn round, not winch forward and hope surely? Its not the same as a weekend getting buried in mud with your mates.

So for a just in case recovery scenario a big enough rear mounted electric winch with a fair few snatch blocks would be cheaper and lighter than a hydraulic system, and with those snatch blocks you could rig a front pull if you really wanted. One huge winch with one line is Jeep thinking which IMHO is not applicable A bag full of synthetic rope to extend the pull and that would do me

But if you have nothing to winch off and are alone you need to dig a lot or wait for an anchor to drive by

 

[charlieaarons]

It wasn't accidental that the first winch I got on my U500 was a 15K lb REAR Superwinch hydraulic (1/2" cable). I figured with a big heavy truck, retreat would often be the better part of valor.
Later, when I got the truck home, I added a 20K lb DP hydraulic (9/16" cable) in front. I carry 3 snatch blocks, 2 Pullpals, 3 lengths of 20' 1/2" cable with loops, a 40' 40mm snatch strap, and a 40' 2" snatch strap, also lengths of 1/2" and 3/8" chain and lots of shackles up to 1-3/8".

Charlie

 

[grizzlyj]

I have somewhere got a print out maybe from a US Army manual along the lines of what is below, but as usual I can't find it when needed! So;


From http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Recovery/index.html

"
Once you have accurately estimated or measured the trucks loaded weight (LW) you can calculate the resistance to be overcome in any recovery situation (this is commonly known as the ROLLING resistance). There are 4 types of resistance that must be accounted for to accurately assess the resistance that must be overcome. These are surface resistance, damage resistance, mire (stuck) resistance and grade (slope) resistance. Calculate them all as follows:
Surface resistance

A pull of 1/10 LW will cause a free wheeling truck to move on a hard, level surface.

A pull of 1/3 LW will cause a free wheeling truck to move on a softer surface, such as grass or gravel,
Damage resistance:

A pull of 2/3 LW will be required to move if the wheels cannot rotate (as if the brakes were fully applied), the pull required to overcome the resistance (drag) the truck id 2/3 or 67% of the LW. Damage resistance includes surface resistance (i.e. you only use one or the other)
Stuck (mire) resistance:

A pull of 100% of LW will be required if the truck is stuck to a depth of the sidewall on the tires.

A pull of 200% of LW will be required if the truck is stuck to the hubs.

A pull of 300% of LW will be required if the truck is stuck to the frame..

Mire resistance includes damage resistance (i.e. you only use one or the other)
Grade (slope) resistance:

Upgrade (vehicle has to be recovered up a slope or grade)

15 degrees - add 25% of LW

30 degrees - add 50% of LW

45 degrees - add 75% of LW

Vehicle recovery on level ground - no correction

Downgrade (vehicle has to be recovered down a slope or grade)

15 degrees - subtract 25% of LW

30 degrees - subtract 50% of LW

45 degrees - subtract 75% of LW
Final figure:

Add surface or damage or mire resistance and grade resistance, and this is your final figure or rolling resistance. This is the amount of pull the winch must apply in order to recover the stuck vehicle.
Example:

My trail rig fully kitted out weighs in at 5000 lbs. I get stuck down a rock ravine that's about 45 degrees steep, and there are big rocks up to the frame hanging it up. Rolling resistance is 5000lbs x 3 + (5000 x 0.75) = 18,750 lbs. As you can see, this is significantly more than the 5000lbs x 1.5 - 7500lbs the manufacturers would have you believe. You may be wondering how one could ever possibly recover the vehicle in this example, given that the largest commercially available 4x4 recovery winch is 15000 lbs and that most are in the 8-9000lb range. The answer is by using multi-line rigging, which we shall explore in a moment. "

 

[762X39]

The short and long of it is that it is easier to recover a vehicle from your chair while surfing the net than it is when you are out there doing it.
I always carry recovery equipment in my pickups (2WD) and have recovered many stuck vehicles (2WD and 4WD) because I had recovery equipment (this includes getting unstuck with someones Else's help because I got stuck). So far I have been lucky and not got stuck over my head.
Werner winches aren't common around here and if one had been attached to the front of the vehicle it might not have helped in this situation (Charlie was right in his comment about a rear mounted winch).
Does anyone know if they have continued their journey yet?

 

[Iain_U1250]

Jason posted this a few days ago - once they got the truck up, they drove it out under it's own power. It's being fixed and they will be on their way again soon.

News update via Atkinson Vos newsletter flyer;

"We all saw it in the news several weeks ago when a British couple and their Unimog camper fell down a ravine in the South American Amazon, but recently stories about Bruce and Leslie Scott have somewhat died down. We have spoken to Bruce on the phone since their accident and he told us that after 10 days of lying on its side in the jungle (during which it was looted by local people) the Unimog was able to drive 300kms out of the jungle entirely on its own power. We thought this was pretty amazing. To read some more about this special Unimog please click here"


So from; http://www.unimogs.co.uk/newsletter.asp


"UPDATE ON THE AMAZON COUPLE & THEIR UNIMOG
Posted 02/11/2011 at 15:55:00 by Esme

The couple had driven over hundreds of identical bridges during their travels, but although this one looked secure it turned out it was termite ridden and severely weakened on the inside. The picture on the right is how the Unimog looked once it was on its feet again.

Once back in Manaus the mog went to a Mercedes workshop there and has been undergoing repair work since. After a few problems Bruce was tempted to send the Unimog back to us here to have work completed but unfortunately shipping costs proved too expensive.

After completing the most essential work the Unimog will be fit for driving away and continuing on its travels down to Venezuela. It will return to the UK at a later date for full repairs."

 

[MultiSmog]

... Second, in much of the world your vehicle will be stripped if you leave it. That includes Mexico. Someone needs to stay with the vehicle. That may take some bravery and discomfort in the jungle.
...

In Mexico, you are caught doing "rapiña", stealing from someone in trouble (accident, earthquake, flood, etc) you risk to be shot on the spot, either by police, the military or any authority. That is the law, no just an extreme possibility.
Having said that, there is no police around every corner waiting to babysit you or your truck. Have you tried leaving your car over-night in, say, Downtown LA or Paris?
Common sense applies everywhere. I understand there are priorities though.

Saludos

 

[Chas Stricker]

I agree Roberto. I'd leave my rig in Montana without much worry. Here in the Reno area with some worry. In a large city......what are the gun laws again?
Chas