Am I crazy to want a mild long travel setup on a 80% road DD 4Runner?

mparker

New member
One thing kind of leads to another.... I will be due for tires soon. Ive always thought when it comes time Ill use it as a opportunity to go to a larger size(285). At the sometime I would do a lift.

When I start researching suspension kits the BP51 stands out to me. It seems to retain the low maintenance of OEM style suspension backed by a warranty and a tried and true brand (ARB/OME). Downside is, its on the very high end of the budget.

So that brought me to a Long Travel kit... If I keep the same budget I might be able to go LT from Icon or Dobinson that would perform (maybe) better off road than the BP51s. When I say Long Travel I mean rear only and maybe an extended travel front. True Long Travel front UCA and LCA are certainly out of the budget.

This is for a 2018 Pro 4Runner. It is a daily driver and vacation mobile. Most off-roading it sees is fire roads mostly every weekend to and from hiking spots and general adventuring, and the annual trip to a beach house on OBX requiring a 2-5mile commute on the beach and over dunes. I want to try to get out once or twice a year to Kentucky for the DBBB/KAT. It is mostly jeep and side by side trails if your not familiar, some are pretty rough, I know my limits.

I am of the mindset, if I am repairing or replacing, the new parts should be as good or preferably better than the outgoing. Which I also worry about all the posts about broken springs on the factory Toyota Bilsteins...

Its crazy how tire shopping an lead to all this... lol.
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
In the Tacoma world what you're doing is called mid travel, consisting of shocks with more travel and upper control arms but the factory geometry is retained. Long travel is wider track, so longer upper and lower arms and wider fenders.

The way Toyota builds the front suspension the wheel travel keeps the CV axles and ball joints safely within their limits but there's about an inch of travel left on the table.

When you step up to a mid-travel shock it's a pretty big jump in price. They do handle nice but whether the extra travel (in the case of Tacoma it's about 9" vs 8" stock) helps is not yes-or-no. It's not difficult to break CV axles if you don't get your travel window right and put on taller bump stops.

The BP51 are nice and from what I hear do what OME says they do. I went with FOX 2.5 extended travel and I have them tuned so they are awesome for highway and high speed but I still prefer standard OME shocks in the rocks. Mine are not adjustable, though, so I need to do another round of tuning next rebuild to soften them up in rocks. That's another thing to factory in with mid travel, about every 20k to 50k (depends on how hard you use them) you have to tear the shocks apart and rebuild them.

Just my $0.02 I suppose but if I could back in time I'd just personally stick with standard OME and use the money for gas and beer. It's not that I dislike my suspension but it's not 3x as good to justify the money.

Also, strictly speaking, mid travel doesn't let you fit larger tires since the up travel is the same as stock and the shock travel increases by an inch. That means if you want to take advantage of the extra travel the wheel will still stuff the tire as much as it does now. The "proper" setup is to lift the truck about 1 inch so that the 9" of shock travel is still in the middle of the travel window. From your static height you get an inch of increase wheel travel up and down. Roughly speaking an inch of shock travel translates to two inches of wheel travel. But most people lift a bit more so you have more up than down travel. I lifted about 1.5" at the wheel personally.

So if you can't fit 285s now without rubbing the only way to prevent that with mid travel is to run a taller bump stop to stop the up travel early, which kind of negates some of the benefit of more wheel travel. You will get some down travel and so the overall travel lifted would be like just moving the window down. But keep in mind this puts ball joints and CV axles at risk.
 
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mparker

New member
Just my $0.02 I suppose but if I could back in time I'd just personally stick with standard OME and use the money for gas and beer. It's not that I dislike my suspension but it's not 3x as good to justify the money.

Thats the exact feedback I wanted to hear..

even though comparing the BP51s to a mid travel setup from lets say Icom or Radflo would be kind of close in price... it sounds like it wouldn't be worth it in my situation. not to mention the supporting mods, extended lines, lower and upper links, costs for breaking stuff?

I think if my goal is to remain as maintenance free as possible the BP51s might be the best balance...
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
Thats the exact feedback I wanted to hear..

even though comparing the BP51s to a mid travel setup from lets say Icom or Radflo would be kind of close in price... it sounds like it wouldn't be worth it in my situation. not to mention the supporting mods, extended lines, lower and upper links, costs for breaking stuff?

I think if my goal is to remain as maintenance free as possible the BP51s might be the best balance...
BP51 are expensive but comparable to 2.5" reservoir shocks from any of the big names (King, FOX, Radflo, Icom). For my money I'd go with King or Radflo over OME. I like my FOX but it would be a toss-up with OME. I'd personally avoid Icom since I do not like the digressive tuning. OME looks to have done their homework with respect to not being rust-prone like most 2.5" shocks and there's good support.

I think the value target is 2.0" shocks personally. You get a bump over the standard options without breaking the bank. Plus they are rebuildable and tunable, if you want. The advantage to 2.5" diameter is simply volume and they'll take more heat before they start to fade. The downside to 2.5" is they are mostly steel bodies while 2.0" are aluminum (e.g. the rust issue).

I have overheated shocks and cooked OME Sports, which is why I went with FOX when I had money burning a hole in my pocket. But the conditions the killed those shocks were 60 miles of wash board at ~50 MPH rushing to get to a campsite. It was punishing and I knew a risk.
 

mparker

New member
I think the value target is 2.0" shocks personally. You get a bump over the standard options without breaking the bank. Plus they are rebuildable and tunable, if you want. The advantage to 2.5" diameter is simply volume and they'll take more heat before they start to fade. The downside to 2.5" is they are mostly steel bodies while 2.0" are aluminum (e.g. the rust issue).

Good to know. rust/corrosion is a big, if not top of the list, concern. Main reason I've ruled out Kings and Total Chaos ...
 

tacollie

Glamper
Just my $0.02 I suppose but if I could back in time I'd just personally stick with standard OME and use the money for gas and beer. It's not that I dislike my suspension but it's not 3x as good to justify the money.

This is how I feel everytime I drop big money on suspension. On my last Tacoma I actually sold my Icon 2.5 coilovers and replaced them with Boss 2.0s. I got tired trying to make the Icons work. Even though the Boss were smaller they performed better because the tune was dead on.
 

KTempleton

Observer
Going long travel in the rear is nice but can open up a can of worms. Extended brake lines, drive shaft rubbing on gas tank skid when articulated. I 100% planned on going that route but after seeing some of the maintenance involved with a good friends, I like not worrying about it. Mid travel up front, all day long though.
 

LionZoo

Observer
This is how I feel everytime I drop big money on suspension. On my last Tacoma I actually sold my Icon 2.5 coilovers and replaced them with Boss 2.0s. I got tired trying to make the Icons work. Even though the Boss were smaller they performed better because the tune was dead on.

I'm going to have to second this. Keep in mind that various vendors tune their dampers for different conditions and optimizing for one condition generally involves a trade-off. I have King 2.5s on my Lexus GX and I actually dislike them. I might be the only person in the world that dislikes his King, but their off-the-shelf tuning is set up for a travel speed that is faster than the speed that I generally travel at (not surprising considering their desert racing origin). This results in a bit too much high speed damping for optimal comfort at my travel speed off-road, and a bit too much on-road ride harshness as well. By contrast, the ADS 2.5s on my Tacoma nail the off-road ride comfort much better for me, despite battling disadvantages in terms of rear leaf springs.

If I had to do it all over again, I'd probably just throw on some Dobinsons on the GX and call it a day. While I realize I can tune the King to get them where I want them to be, the truth is I have limited time and that time will probably not end up going to the GX.
 
I'm so glad I saw this. My wife also has a 2018 PRO 4Runner and she wants 285 and is wanting a lift. I have a Tundra PRO and the lift for that is 2 inched above stock, Does the 4runner have similar lift?

Also what sort of lift should I be looking at? It will be used offroad.

What shock set-up would be good for midtravel? We mainly would be doing desert at a decent pace and trails not rock crawling.
 

mparker

New member
I'm so glad I saw this. My wife also has a 2018 PRO 4Runner and she wants 285 and is wanting a lift. I have a Tundra PRO and the lift for that is 2 inched above stock, Does the 4runner have similar lift?

Also what sort of lift should I be looking at? It will be used offroad.

What shock set-up would be good for midtravel? We mainly would be doing desert at a decent pace and trails not rock crawling.

The 4Runner Pro claims 1” over stock. I feel like every time I pull up to a stop light or pass another 4Runner on the highway I feel like I am sitting lower!

Anyhow I could make you a list a page long of lifts for the 4Runner platform.

Pretty much boils down to how much you want to spend. Lol.
 

tacollie

Glamper
I'm going to have to second this. Keep in mind that various vendors tune their dampers for different conditions and optimizing for one condition generally involves a trade-off. I have King 2.5s on my Lexus GX and I actually dislike them. I might be the only person in the world that dislikes his King, but their off-the-shelf tuning is set up for a travel speed that is faster than the speed that I generally travel at (not surprising considering their desert racing origin). This results in a bit too much high speed damping for optimal comfort at my travel speed off-road, and a bit too much on-road ride harshness as well. By contrast, the ADS 2.5s on my Tacoma nail the off-road ride comfort much better for me, despite battling disadvantages in terms of rear leaf springs.



If I had to do it all over again, I'd probably just throw on some Dobinsons on the GX and call it a day. While I realize I can tune the King to get them where I want them to be, the truth is I have limited time and that time will probably not end up going to the GX.
That's how my Icons were set up. If I had a bumper, winch, and dual batteries they might have been fine. I got them revalved and they still sucked. They needed lighter springs and more tunning then I rode in a Tacoma with Boss 2.0 suspension and decided to cut my losses.

I went with Boss on the front and Fox on back of my Tundra. The front is great. The rear is not. I'm a slow learner ?
 

mparker

New member
That's how my Icons were set up. If I had a bumper, winch, and dual batteries they might have been fine. I got them revalved and they still sucked. They needed lighter springs and more tunning then I rode in a Tacoma with Boss 2.0 suspension and decided to cut my losses.

I went with Boss on the front and Fox on back of my Tundra. The front is great. The rear is not. I'm a slow learner ?

Your not the first person to mention Toytec Boss kit. They make a series that has some kind of anti corrosion treatment... very interesting..

although it is strange when I search youtube I can't really find anyone with that set up in action.. I know their spacer lifts are pretty top notch for that kind of thing... I get the feeling maybe their equipment is more show than go? I guess there is a price associated with R&D the consumer gets with companies like Fox, King, Icon...etc... Got to buy gas for their race trucks... lol
 

christsay

New member
FWIW I did a "mid travel" setup on my first gen tacoma that spent most of its life on pavement. It was my DD as well as road trip mobile for climbing trips, most crags don't really need a very off-road capable vehicle.

2004 Tacoma 4x4, Icon 2.5 extended travel, Icon billet UCA, Icon remote resi rear shocks. I did it at about the same time you did when the stock suspension started to wear out. Did it perform well? Yes. Was it a good value? No.

The only issue is that the truck is being handed on within the family and having the Icons rebuilt or the uniball replaced in the UCA isn't something you can have addressed at any shop.
 

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