Aerial Photography

Every Miles A Memory

Expedition Leader
Actually they have two different stipulations. One being a traditional home owner who is not considered a professional. This policy is a bit less expensive. Then there is the Professional Policy. Only a few cents more on the dollar, but still worth the cost.

I've used their coverage in the past and had a check in my hand within a few days of filing the claim. So they're not like typical insurance companies that try their hardest to get out of paying. I had tipped over in my kayak with about $5000 worth of gear it the boat, all replaced at full replacement value.
 

Bullsnake

Adventurer
You guys that haven't already need to check out the AP thread on Runryder.com!

I did this as a side business for a few years, but the FAA has their fingers in it pretty deep now and it is next to impossible to get legitimate insurance. I still have my Maxi-Joker II and a heavily modified Airfoil Voyager 50E that has a nose mount, but they are personal use only for me now. If you are proficient at flying RC helicopters and use some AF stabilization assistance it is actually fairly easy to get some fantastic shots! Just be prepared to write a BIG check if you jump in with both feet. I have seen some great results with P&S cameras though as well...

If you want to see some INCREDIBLE shots check out a guy named Jeff Scholl at his website called Gravity Shots. I am not sure if he is a member here, but he is a fellow overlander and has some incredible AP shots...
 

jh504

Explorer
You guys that haven't already need to check out the AP thread on Runryder.com!

I did this as a side business for a few years, but the FAA has their fingers in it pretty deep now and it is next to impossible to get legitimate insurance. I still have my Maxi-Joker II and a heavily modified Airfoil Voyager 50E that has a nose mount, but they are personal use only for me now. If you are proficient at flying RC helicopters and use some AF stabilization assistance it is actually fairly easy to get some fantastic shots! Just be prepared to write a BIG check if you jump in with both feet. I have seen some great results with P&S cameras though as well...

If you want to see some INCREDIBLE shots check out a guy named Jeff Scholl at his website called Gravity Shots. I am not sure if he is a member here, but he is a fellow overlander and has some incredible AP shots...

Welcome to ExPo. Thank you for the information and the links. Those really are some incredible shots, and they are very inspiring.
If you don't mind clarifying, how is the FAA regulating RC AP? What are they requiring in regards to insurance?
 

Bullsnake

Adventurer
Thanks for the welcome jh504!

The killer the last year or so has been the UAV classification with the FAA. ever since 911 they have been closing more and more loopholes making it harder for anyone to do this as a legitimate business. Couple that with many insurance companies not understanding the risks involved and it is hard to get coverage, and even harder for you to make them pay if you should have an accident.

There has been a huge push in the UAV AP industry to come up with a protocol and a set parameter in which to operate. I did some sketchy jobs the four years that I did this as a side business (launching off of roofs in down-town areas, threading the heli and mount up through tight tree canopies in forests, suburban flights with only one exit strategy should things go South, etc.) I only used the best equipment, pre-flighted everything, and kept a log for the equipment and replaced items that were "timed out" to avoid failures. I always felt confident that I would get the job done and get the shots, but as a fixed wing IFR pilot I often times wished for more options. If there was a set guideline that the industry could present to the FAA, and the industry in general was to form an association with legal representation I think it could survive, and thrive. The reality though is that many of the people industry operate on a shoestring budget, and are not willing to collectively invest money into something that may or may not pan out.

I love photography and overland travel, and I will continue to take at least one of my AP rigs with me on all of my travels as it is a fantastic way to get some incredible shots. I hope that the industry gets some structure at some point, but as it stands now it is only one major accident away from being banned all together. I have nothing against those people that buy a $200.00 Slow Stick and a Sony Cyber-Shot and get good results, but they need to understand that there are also people like myself that have invested 10's of thousands of dollars into R&D and equipment and were committed to it as a professional business. The $200.00 Slow stick guy (or gal!) needs to make sure they are looking out for everyone's safety just as much as the "big" guys are to ensure a future for everyone. I hope that people here also get as much enjoyment and satisfaction out of shooting as I have, and if there is anything that I could contribute to their success in it please let me know and I would be glad to help out!
 

jh504

Explorer
Thanks for the welcome jh504!

The killer the last year or so has been the UAV classification with the FAA. ever since 911 they have been closing more and more loopholes making it harder for anyone to do this as a legitimate business. Couple that with many insurance companies not understanding the risks involved and it is hard to get coverage, and even harder for you to make them pay if you should have an accident.

There has been a huge push in the UAV AP industry to come up with a protocol and a set parameter in which to operate. I did some sketchy jobs the four years that I did this as a side business (launching off of roofs in down-town areas, threading the heli and mount up through tight tree canopies in forests, suburban flights with only one exit strategy should things go South, etc.) I only used the best equipment, pre-flighted everything, and kept a log for the equipment and replaced items that were "timed out" to avoid failures. I always felt confident that I would get the job done and get the shots, but as a fixed wing IFR pilot I often times wished for more options. If there was a set guideline that the industry could present to the FAA, and the industry in general was to form an association with legal representation I think it could survive, and thrive. The reality though is that many of the people industry operate on a shoestring budget, and are not willing to collectively invest money into something that may or may not pan out.

I love photography and overland travel, and I will continue to take at least one of my AP rigs with me on all of my travels as it is a fantastic way to get some incredible shots. I hope that the industry gets some structure at some point, but as it stands now it is only one major accident away from being banned all together. I have nothing against those people that buy a $200.00 Slow Stick and a Sony Cyber-Shot and get good results, but they need to understand that there are also people like myself that have invested 10's of thousands of dollars into R&D and equipment and were committed to it as a professional business. The $200.00 Slow stick guy (or gal!) needs to make sure they are looking out for everyone's safety just as much as the "big" guys are to ensure a future for everyone. I hope that people here also get as much enjoyment and satisfaction out of shooting as I have, and if there is anything that I could contribute to their success in it please let me know and I would be glad to help out!

I understand what you are saying and it answers some questions that I have had. I am very glad that you have decided to contribute because you have a lot of personal experience that is very helpful for me. I have looked at the Remote Control Aerial Photography Assoc http://www.rcapa.net/ and they have a link to Aerial Pak. It appears to be insurance specific to RC AP. Do you know anything about this coverage or the association it's self?
 

Bullsnake

Adventurer
I am a member of RCAPA, or at least I used to be (not sure if my membership has expired yet, you can search for me DBA Midwest Aerial Photography in Iowa).

I have not used Aerial Pak personally, so this is all second hand information, but I have heard that it is VERY hard to get paid out on claims, as the insurance is structured as mechanical failure only, and it is hard to prove that you didn't "dumb-thumb" the AP unit in. Anyone that has seen the aftermath of an AP crash would be hard-pressed to prove to an insurance company that the whole works came out of the sky because a linkage failed in-flight and not during the subsequent crash. One of the individuals even had video of his heli having a massive gyro or TR servo failure (wife was video-taping the flight for use in promotional material) and wasn't paid out on the claim. Once again, this is all second hand information, and I have know first-hand knowledge of Aerial Pak either way. Hopefully they are the real deal, as it would be a huge advancement for the AP hobby and industry!

I actually used a local insurance company while I was doing this professionally called Krist Insurance. They documented everything, and I had to do a proficiency test before they would place the insurance, but I did have the paperwork necessary to get the job done. I did, however, always feel like I would be left with my shorts down if I actually had to make a claim. The ONLY reason I would have ever claimed on it would be if I would have done serious personal or property damage, and thankfully that never happened.

As a hobby, it is a FANTASTIC way to expand a person's already keen interest in photography, and there are ways around using your "hobby" to make a profit (think selling "stock" photos from your "personal" portfolio;))
I think at some point it will be a very viable side business for those that absolutely love to do it, but right now there are a lot of unknowns.

I think it is GREAT that there is an AP link here on EP-it takes two of my favorite things and combines them into what often is a fantastic trip!
 

jh504

Explorer
I am a member of RCAPA, or at least I used to be (not sure if my membership has expired yet, you can search for me DBA Midwest Aerial Photography in Iowa).

I have not used Aerial Pak personally, so this is all second hand information, but I have heard that it is VERY hard to get paid out on claims, as the insurance is structured as mechanical failure only, and it is hard to prove that you didn't "dumb-thumb" the AP unit in. Anyone that has seen the aftermath of an AP crash would be hard-pressed to prove to an insurance company that the whole works came out of the sky because a linkage failed in-flight and not during the subsequent crash. One of the individuals even had video of his heli having a massive gyro or TR servo failure (wife was video-taping the flight for use in promotional material) and wasn't paid out on the claim. Once again, this is all second hand information, and I have know first-hand knowledge of Aerial Pak either way. Hopefully they are the real deal, as it would be a huge advancement for the AP hobby and industry!

I actually used a local insurance company while I was doing this professionally called Krist Insurance. They documented everything, and I had to do a proficiency test before they would place the insurance, but I did have the paperwork necessary to get the job done. I did, however, always feel like I would be left with my shorts down if I actually had to make a claim. The ONLY reason I would have ever claimed on it would be if I would have done serious personal or property damage, and thankfully that never happened.

As a hobby, it is a FANTASTIC way to expand a person's already keen interest in photography, and there are ways around using your "hobby" to make a profit (think selling "stock" photos from your "personal" portfolio;))
I think at some point it will be a very viable side business for those that absolutely love to do it, but right now there are a lot of unknowns.

I think it is GREAT that there is an AP link here on EP-it takes two of my favorite things and combines them into what often is a fantastic trip!

Great information once again. You have given me a lot to think about. Stock photography may be the most realistic option until I have more to invest. PM Sent.
 

jh504

Explorer
A little update. I guess I have decided to plunge in head first. I am putting down money on a Trex 600e 12s tomorrow.

This Heli:

600esp.jpg


Plus this mount:

aerioX_1_2.jpg


Should look something like this:

600esp2.jpg


Thank you very much to Bullsnake for all of the advice.
 

Bullsnake

Adventurer
Wow! That is going to be a sweet setup! Are you going to set the downlink and mount up as a two person or one person? Either way, you're about to have a LOT of fun!

Can't wait to see some pictures here-we should start an "AP picture thread" when we get a few people up and running!
 

jh504

Explorer
I think it is a good looking heli too. Since I will only be doing still shots it is going to be setup for 1 person at first. Maybe if things "take off" I will look into getting a little more complicated.

An AP picture thread sounds like a good idea, I am probably still a good ways off from taking pictures though.
 

7wt

Expedition Leader
Please keep this thread going. I would like to get into aerial photography as well but want to stick with planes. My heli days are long gone but I did have fun with them. I am looking at something like this guy has,

http://whispershots.smugmug.com/

Plenty of info on RC Groups as well as RunRyder and Helifreak. I would be interested in knowing how you are setting up the Rex, radio, gyro, speed control ect.
 

jh504

Explorer
Please keep this thread going. I would like to get into aerial photography as well but want to stick with planes. My heli days are long gone but I did have fun with them. I am looking at something like this guy has,

http://whispershots.smugmug.com/

Plenty of info on RC Groups as well as RunRyder and Helifreak. I would be interested in knowing how you are setting up the Rex, radio, gyro, speed control ect.

They are getting some good shots on that plane with the D9000.

As far as setup I am starting from scratch. Once I have the Heli and camera mount I will start figuring out the rest. I will document it here as I go.

I was thinking I could get by with the Aerio X mount from Photoship One but they have informed me that it will not carry a large DSLR. So I am looking at the 2xpt for the trex 600, shown here: http://photoshipone.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_7&products_id=6
 

Safado

Adventurer
Cool if you have the skills to fly it...I DON'T


I had a friend in FL that used to contract out with Real-Estate agents to do aerials of property listings...gave them a competitive edge to the viewing public. Seemed to have paid for most of his investment in the first year. Video would only make it more appealing, and the market options are endless.

Good luck.
 

jh504

Explorer
A little update. I have received my Trex 600 and also ordered a Blade 400 heli to train on. This is my first experience with collective pitch heli's so I figured I would get some good practice in before sending the camera up. I will post up some pics of the helicopters soon. I will be using a Canon 550D for the aerial shots.
 

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