Advice Needed:: Tacoma owner considering a ZR2

M

McFly2003

Adventurer
Well, I have hit a bit of an fork in the road. Lately, the economy that i have been achieving in my '15 TRD OR has got my gears turning on options.

I purchased my '15 new, it has 42.5K on the odo, and most importantly, it is paid off. I absolutely love my Taco and I feel it is safe to say that I am a bit of a Toyota 4x4 fan boy. I have owned 3rd, 4th, and 5th gen 4runners, and now this truck. That said, with minor mods (suspension, mild tires, topper, ARB front w/ winch, to name most), I am lucky to see 15 mpg out of it. I tend to average between 12 and 14. Historically, in this hobby and segment of vehicles, this was one of the prices of admission. However, This rig is my daily driver and I feel that there are a few current options on the market that would alleviate this issue slightly.

I did a bit of shopping in the new Toyota market, looking at the TRD OffRoad and Pro options in both Tacoma and 4runner platforms. I wish this were a more reasonable route, but the numbers that I was being presented at my local Yota stealership were just not at a point that would justify my making the switch. Sure, I could sell my truck for plenty more than the offered trade-in, but then I would have to risk what I want not being available on the lot and not having a vehicle to drive. Plus, are the current offerings even that much better than what I have?

Then, on the advice of an old friend, I did something I absolutely never though I would ever do. I paid a visit to my local Chevrolet dealership to check out the Colorado. I've driven one or two at work but they were bare-bones and left quite a bit to be desired.

After taking test drives in both Z71 and ZR2 packages in both gasser and diesel spec, I am almost ashamed to say that I am hugely impressed. Initial impression and driving experience was better than Tacoma in almost every single way. I never really felt that you could get a practical, off road worthy package and still retain such creature comfort. Factor on top of that the diesel option that is yielding some folks over 30 mpg on the highway and I am torn in a big way. The only, and I mean ONLY, two things I was not a huge fan of were some of the plastics on the dash and door panels and the fact that the bed doesn't have the rail system that the Taco does.

I had them check on allowances and rebates and give me an idea of what I would be looking at financially, and without even haggling, I could be in a ZR2 diesel for $13k. Factoring in the option to sell my truck private party and negotiate the ZR2's price, and I could be out the door well under 10.

What is holding me up:
- I love my Yota. Its character, capability, appearance, reliability, resale value, and the fact that its paid off all weigh heavy in my mind.
- Reliability and resale value on the Chevy. I have been unable to find much of anything on either of these two bits of info on the new Colorado. I understand that its a newer platform, but I would have figured that there would still be something out there.
- Lack of long term info out there on the "Baby Duramax".
- The Colorado does not have anywhere NEAR the aftermarket following that the Tacoma and 4runner have. AEV's offerings at SEMA were beautiful, but alas, still just concepts :(.

I don't want to pass up a proper option because I cant get out of the "my Toyota is better" mindset, but I feel it is a justified mindset none the less.

Thoughts/experiences from my domestic peeps? Anyone in here made this switch? I know I will likely receive biased responses in here, but I am also posting in the Yota sub-forum. Thank you guys!


Tacoma @ Bethany.jpg
 
Bubblegoose1

Bubblegoose1

@PNWINFERNOPRO
Fleet Manager for an electrical construction company. Have eight 2017 Colorados in my fleet, five gas/three diesel; total fleet of 145 mostly GM vehicles. All eight spend more time than anyone needs at the dealership for recalls, computer glitches, dash lights flashing, and stalling while on the freeway. The diesels are the worst, with two spending a total a month each in the shop.

Keep your Toyota or look elsewhere for your next rig.
 
Last edited:
Tex68w

Tex68w

Beach Bum
I like the idea of the ZR2 diesel, I think straight up it's a better package than the TRD Pro Tacoma. That said, the diesel hasn't been out long enough to be vetted appropriately and I flat out can't stand Chevy/GM products since the early 2000's. Their interiors and plastics feel cheap and everyone I know that has a Chevy/GM spends more time in the shop than any other domestic make. If I were in your position I'd keep your Taco and accept the short comings you listed knowing that you have the peace of mind on its resale, aftermarket, and reliability. There's always the option to get a cheap cash commuter as well and lessen the daily dependence on your Tacoma. Good luck with your decision.
 
M

McFly2003

Adventurer
Wow thanks folks. I drive an F150 at work everyday and that’s about the extent of my knowledge into the domestic market. Glad I’m hearing about issues before pulling the trigger.

I know the 2.8 duramax has been in the souteast Asian market for sometime, but I was weary of reliability with all of the emissions add-ons required for US sale. Heaven forbid I want to do any deletes, modifications, or tunes on the thing and I void the warranty.

I have seen the Bison concept, and it was one of the reasons my gears really started turning. I don’t think I’d want the full truck as it would probably make it less suitable for everyday use, but if they were to sell the individual parts it would be a sweet little set up.
 
AlexCold

AlexCold

Observer
I will start by saying, I work for GM as an engineer and have first hand experience with the ZR2. So take that as it may.

I am currently in the market for a new vehicle, and at this very moment it's for a diesel ZR2 (have an appointment with the dealership today even to talk numbers). Two reasons: 1. The wife said get something you won't regret driving, and 2. the diesel 2.8L. I really like the 2.8L diesel, again i've had a lot of experience with it and the export versions that came before it. I never really experience any major issues, all while really pushing the limits of a mid size truck.

Everyone I've spoken to has preferred the ZR2 ride over the TRD Pro. It's not even fair, most of them say. As for the interiors, yes Chevrolet plastics aren't the best. I definitely wouldn't say so, but the interior is quiet and fairly simple.

As for reliability, I will only say that the development trucks we have run have been really trouble free and the Hall Racing ZR2 hasn't had any issues aside from those related to racing mistakes. I'd say that's pretty good.

Now, with all that said, the Tacoma is a proven platform with a huge aftermarket. You know it and it works for you. If the big issue is mileage, my thought would be to get a commuter for the day to day. 5-10k will get you something with low mileage and over 30mpg.
 
D

Dalko43

Explorer
Go talk to someone who actually owns a Colorado, especially the diesel variant if that's what you're interested in. And go for a test drive and physically inspect the vehicle. Internet feedback is worth your consideration, but it's only a single data point. I wouldn't take everything you hear on here as gospel.

Also, look at NHTSA's website for recalls, TSB's and customer complaints. It's a very good resource, but again only one of many data points which you should consider.

The Colorado and the emissions-compliant 2.8l duramax (really a VM Motori design) are newer than the Tacoma and its engine. So it would make sense for the newer platform to have more issues to work out. With that said, there are lot of content Colorado owners out there and I don't think the few vague issues you're hearing about here are all that common. Emissions are a potential tripping point for any new diesel, but GM has plenty of experience with optimizing emissions on its v8 Duramax. And overall, the emissions from the big 3 domestic companies have come a long way since 2007. The 2.8l diesel engine itself has a proven track record overseas (the global version of the Jeep uses it).

The Tacoma has had a few slight changes made from its previous generation, but otherwise it's the same basic, but proven, formula. And it too has had a few issues with its driveline. I don't think they're common issues, but even Toyota's occasionally come with faults from the factory.

Either vehicle looks to be a decent overland platform. So I wouldn't lose too much sleep trying to pick one over the other. If you find yourself inherently favoring one, go with your gut.

Edit: Your Tacoma looks pretty sweet. If it's already paid off and modified to your liking, I certainly wouldn't feel the need to ditch it, even if it's mpg's weren't the best.
 
Last edited:
Explorerinil

Explorerinil

Observer
I think your Toyota will have a better resale value and will be more reliable than the Colorado. I hear what your saying about gm and plastic... they all have that, even my moms Escalade platinum has a cheap gm plastic feel to it. I had one gm vehicle, a 2016 gmc Denali duramax, I had it for 6 months and 10 thousand miles, it was in the shop 9 times with electrical issues, I got my money back and went back to dodge, I won’t ever own or recommend a new gm product to anyone, stay with your paid off Toyota.
 
Bubblegoose1

Bubblegoose1

@PNWINFERNOPRO
Explorerinil said:
I think your Toyota will have a better resale value and will be more reliable than the Colorado. I hear what your saying about gm and plastic... they all have that, even my moms Escalade platinum has a cheap gm plastic feel to it. I had one gm vehicle, a 2016 gmc Denali duramax, I had it for 6 months and 10 thousand miles, it was in the shop 9 times with electrical issues, I got my money back and went back to dodge, I won’t ever own or recommend a new gm product to anyone, stay with your paid off Toyota.
Click to expand...
Managing a fleet of too many GM issues, I will never personally buy a newer GM product. Only reason we buy them is due to their GREAT rebate program; needed to pay for the 100s of hours getting vehicles to and from the shop.
 
Last edited:
lqdchkn

lqdchkn

:)
Check out coloradofans.com for more opinions.

Yes some of the diesels have had sensor issues and there are even a few GM TSBs on the diesel, primarily for ECM calibration adjustments and those sensors but nothing that I would say is outta line for a completely new product in its initial years.

I have a 2016 Z71 diesel with 32in Duratracs, wheels, ~3in lift, mid rise topper and ~200lbs of gear always on board, which works out to roughly about about a 500-600lbs constant load IMO and I typically mange between high 23 and low 24 MPGs. GM rates the ZR2 about 1-2MPG lower as the front bumper offers less aero but still the diesel delivers on mileage IMO. It's not winning any races but it has enough to get out of it's own way (not like my loaded FJ used to be), which is what matter IMO
 
C

Copperhead14

Observer
I bought a 2006 indigo ink Blue CCSB TRD off-road Tacoma brand new. Drove 113,000 miles, very low maintenance great truck.
In 2014 I found a large rust hole on drivers side frame rail. Made a lot of calls to various levels at Toyota, they had No interest in replacing it. I sold it and bought a Jeep. That truck was a workhorse. If the taco is built to you liking, keep it.
 
R_Lefebvre

R_Lefebvre

Expedition Leader
I have recently been shopping for a daily driver truck to replace my 2014 Nissan Frontier Pro4X which as now become a work truck. That vehicle has been pretty decent over the years, with the exception of a completely non-functional heating unit right from the day I drove it home. It took 5 trips to the dealer with their typical stupidity to sort of fix it. It's never been acceptable, but I gave up any hope that it would ever work properly, and I have just been dealing with it over the years. Other than that, I really have no complaints. I've probably significantly overloaded it several times, including one 10,000km trip with a 23' camper. And it just works. At the time I bought it, I cross-shopped a Tacoma. It was a close competition, with the number one point going for the Taco was available manual transmission (not available on Pro4X CCSB in Canada). In fact, that single thing, almost sealed the deal. But there were simply too many other things where the Taco was disappointing. Most notably the ergonomics, and just an overall feeling that this was a truck from the 80's, simply reskinned with modern styling. From the weird pull-handle parking brake, digital clock in the dash, and excessive fan noise... but really, the driving ergonomics were just absolutely atrocious. As much as I wanted a manual, and trusted Toyota's quality (I didn't know about the frame issues), I just didn't think I could sit in and drive that thing for long periods of time. The Nissan ergonomics were simply far superior, and the VQ40 engine is a gem. Really does feel and sound like a big sports car engine compared to the tractor motor in the Taco.

Anyway, I need a new personal truck now, and was pretty intent on buying a Taco TRD Pro this time around, with manual. I love the styling of the latest ones. But then I drove one. I was shocked to find that it's STILL a 1980's design with new sheet metal. The driving ergonomics are still absolutely terrible. H-point is way too low, and the steering wheel "adjustability" is some kind of joke. I think somebody told the engineers "do the bare minimum we have to do to be able to check this box for 'available tilt steering'" and that's just what they did. It moves what, 1"? I just can't find a comfortable driving position. I assume the basic steering column design is the same one from the 80's before tilt steering was available, and the engineers just used the free-play in the mechanism to allow it to move enough to claim it's adjustable. I mean seriously. Having been an automotive engineer, this is what I see.

And then the drive... While I really, really, really want a manual trans (I'm a purist) I was surprised to find how badly Toyota had messed the whole thing up. I didn't think it was possible to make a manual transmission in any car not fun, but Toyota pulled off the impossible. The clutch release was absolutely horrible. They have WAY to much clutch release damping in it. After releasing the clutch, no exaggeration, it took about 2 seconds to come up and re-engage. Never seen anything like it. This was the winter and it was cold, but it never got better even after a long test drive to warm up, and even if it was just a cold weather thing I'd be living with this 6 months of the year. Meanwhile, the engine was completely gutless. I don't know if it is just the throttle calibration or what, but I found I had to push it to the floor to get moving with any amount of swiftness, and the pedal pressure required to do so it too high. (Results of the unintended acceleration fiasco?). Overall, the engine just felt completely gutless.

The whole thing really just confirmed my feelings about Toyota, that, while they may be very reliable, they just are not designed for drivers.

I was left not knowing what to do. I wouldn't get another Frontier, it's just too old of a design now (though it's ergos are STILL better than the new Taco), and I just don't trust that the heating system is any better than it was 4 years ago as the vehicle engineering is likely stagnant.

I forget what twigged me on to the Colorado ZR2, but I'm glad I didn't overlook it. Basic Colorado ergonomics are far better than the Tacoma. It's a modern design with proper H-point placement and an actually adjustable steering wheel. Visibility over the hood is far superior too, similar to the Nissan. I am going to miss the bed-rail system in the Nissan, this is true. And boy do I wish I could get a manual trans. But we just don't have much choice anymore. The DSSV dampers on the ZR2 are nothing short of magical. They are not actually the best off-road shocks in the world, but they are very, very good, while also NOT being a massive compromise for on-road usage. That's one thing about my Nissan that bothers me now after a few years. The Bilsteins are nice and compliant, so the ride is not harsh like most pickups (which is a big reason why I bought it) but they're also just a bit too compliant on-road leading to slightly uncontrolled body motions. The DSSV dampers feel almost like a sportscar on-road, while NOT being harsh over broken pavement like most trucks, and then still work very very well in serious off-road conditions. Amazing. I've never been the type of guy who cares much about "cheap plastic" on the interior (and it would be hard to be worse than the Frontier). I care much more about the driving, than rapping my fingers on the dashboard plastic. The styling of the Colorado interior.... it's corporate GM. The new Taco does have more character, but it's the character of a 1980's pickup truck, which doesn't help you forget that's essentially what you're driving.

I have a friend who works in off-road truck engineering at one of the automakers other than GM, and he has spent a lot of time doing benchmark testing on the ZR2, and *he* wants to buy one but cannot due to the politics of buying other-brand vehicles.

My ZR2 was built Feb 26th, and I'm still waiting for the darn thing to arrive. I have no idea what GM is doing that it can possibly take 8 or more weeks to ship a vehicle. I'm very anxiously awaiting it's arrival...
 
E

ExplorerTom

Explorer
What's your main concern with the "maybe 15 mpg" in the Taco?

Is it range? Operating/ownership cost? Environmental concerns?

Range can be solved with a Jerry can or 2.

Operating/ownership cost- you said the Taco is paid for. So the only thing spending your money to own it is insurance and gas. If you bought a new Colorado, let's call the cost of insurance the same. But you said you'd owe roughly $10k on the Colorado JUST to get the keys in your hand, then there would be the extras on all the other things you'd want: bumpers, tires, etc. what would the current cost of gas need to be at 15 mpg to equal a monthly payment AND the cost of fuel to operate the Colorado at whatever mpg it gets?

I've run the numbers on a similar situation for myself. My Expedition gets 13 mpg and it's paid for. I figured for a hypothetical $30,000 loan over 5 years at 5% and that vehicle got 17 mpg (I won't do a diesel- so 17 is roughly what a newer vehicle of the same size gets) and factoring in higher insurance for the new one, maintenence cost for the old and things like that. The cost of gas right now would need to be $21/gallon to break even on the monthly operating cost of my hypothetical new vehicle. Suddenly 13 mpg ain't so bad. Gas is cheap.

Environmental concerns- if you figure all of the energy spent and resources consumed building a new vehicle, it makes plenty of sense to drive one vehicle a loooooong time before replacing it.

But having ridden in a couple Tacos, they are kind of bland and boring. I guess I can't blame you for wanting to stray.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
185,897
Messages
2,879,321
Members
225,497
Latest member
WonaWarrior

Members online

Total: 669 (members: 11, guests: 658)
Top