Adding a rear seat to composite camper with shoulder harness intended for family to travel in in order to avoid a crew cab

[S2DM]

Hey All,

Our family is growing and we are starting to realize some of the limitations of the rig we designed for the two of us and just one dog. We've started to contemplate a new build (hush, hush based on a lighter chassis. Goals being a little narrower, a fair bit lighter, and just more mobile in general.

One of the considerations is building or buying a very robust couch/bench seat (reimo etc) with full shoulder harness apparatus to mount in the camper and going with a single cab to push some of our total length out of the truck and into the camper. We'd have the kiddos and mom usually in this seat when underway in this plan. Seat would be through bolted and bolt sleeved through the composite floor to the subframe, which is tied to the frame via rigid mount in the rear. So, the seat itself would be very firmly attached.

Obviously RVs do it and I've been doing the reading on car seats, seat directions, shoulder harnesses etc. And the other consideration is we'd lose the side impact air bag under this plan, which hopefully is less of an issue for a bigger camper. Our rig would have a large pass through so there would still be the ability to communicate etc.

But what else am I missing that would make planning on having the family in the back a bad idea?

 

[BritKLR]

Some form of intergrated crash protection for the occupants. Seat belts will keep them in place but, if the vehicle is hit there's not much protecting them from vehicle intrusion or rollover. Good luck.

 

[Deleted member 9101]

Just get a crew cab... it will be cheaper, easier, and muuuuch safer in the long run.

 

[Jo_Duval]

I’m not sure of the legislations with DOT regarding adding aftermarket seats and passing inspection. Around here you need to go to a certified installer to add seats. I have not yet looked into it but I would like to be able to add seats instead of getting a crew cab as well.
The only time we require more seating is for people to tag along, if I could add 2 seatbelts to a dînette I’d be stoked.

 

[luthj]

With a taller vehicle there is less change of intrusion during side impact. You still need to address rollover. This includes any cabinetry and how it may move if it comes loose. A safe seat is not much protection against a battery or water tank that is flying forwards.

The composite structures are pretty strong, you still need to consider if roof collapse is possible in a rollover scenario.

You also need to consider Heat and Cooling needs while underway. If you don't have line of sight from the seats to the road or horizon, the rear occupants may find themselves motion sick quite quickly.

 

[PhulesAU]

Not a designed / designated passenger compartment. You risk a lot by putting people back there, it's illegal in some states.

 

[Buliwyf]

Seat belts go to the body, not frame. Frame bends, crumples, swings away, and then tightens the belt and cuts your kids in half. Not to mention that camper rattling will drive you crazy (like me). A roll over turns the camper box into a zillion flying splinters and razor blades, being strapped down in such, isn't one of my favorite childhood memories.

Just get a crew cab and learn how to drive it. It's not that bad.

 

[S2DM]

The rollcage would be attached to the subframe, which would then be attached to the frame via springs up front (similar to the bushings in the cab) and rigid in the rear. The seatbelts would attach to the cage itself.

I've done some preliminary engineering and stress testing on it and it seems a pretty easy feat to design a lightweight cage thats stronger than the cab is itself. The other thing to consider is that when cutting a large pass through (similar to an earthroamer, or an open e350 van body), alot of the torsional and side impact rigidity is removed from the cab. That said, obviously don't want to do anything thats less safe than the rear seats would be, just trying to be cogent in examining which is actually the safer space to sit.

We have a crew cab on a 24' long lifting roof camper we built ourselves, so its not a matter of learning to drive it. More a matter of trying to limit the number of single use spaces.

 

[S2DM]

We'll probably end up doing a crew cab, just trying to think outside the box a bit.

 

[Brewdiak]

all those years of riding unsecured in a 70's era station wagon facing backwards..... who knew

yeah, progress.... I suppose ... people ride motorcycles with the kiddos and some judge them as irresponsible (which may be true) but one of my earliest memories is my Uncle taking me on a minibike ride (I singed my feet when I put them on the engine - barefoot of course and no helmet). My cj7 was just a pile of sharp angles ready to cut me to pieces - but dang if it wasn't a blast to drive and fun going 80 on I-10 across the NM desert with one foot hanging half out the door. I had a 68 mustang for a while too - it had the newer steering column instead of the solid one that was supposedly going to stab you through the heart in a crash - never really thought about it, too much fun with a t-5 manual and loud pipes announcing the v8

Do your best to make it safe, but it's life - nobody gets out alive - go make memories once you've done your best. The seatbelts in the box of my Ambo were all bolted to some 1/2" thick aluminum that spanned the 2x2 aluminum studs that make up the walls - nothing particularly fancy and no airbags back there. I recall when airbags were thought to be deadly ...and of course search takata and you may still arrive at that conclusion.

(and one last observation - road cyclists ... health nuts....yet somehow it's fine wearing thin spandex going 50+ down a curvy mountain road with styrofoam strapped to their head.... good for them - it's fun, and apparently worth the risk)

 

[Darwin]

How much smaller of a chassis? It doesn't seem you have many alternatives besides what you have. I could see , doing a similar camper but on a regular cab, same length but you gain more camper space. Can the child ride in the middle of a bench seat on a regular cab truck? Crew cabs eat up a ton of possible 'living' space, and Toyota doesnt have the payload.

 

[Jay J]

https://shop.bedryder.com/products/bedryder-removable-seating-system

 

[Brewdiak]

that's a good option ^

another thought/idea - the air ride truck seats in my rig/big rigs use a 'two belt' system. theres a frame bolted to the floor, then the seat is bolted to the frame. there is a short section of seatbelt that bolts between the floor frame and the seat frame that anchors where the seatbelt anchors to the seat (lap portion). You can see it on vendor websites for new seats - perhaps harder to describe than it is ... could be another option of how to secure seatbelts to the truck.

 

[Lwing]

There are crash tested sofa bed seats all over Europe , plans on eBay , kits avaliable I think, crazy exspensive, considering something similar, our old motorhome had seat belts everywhere, not sure how to incorporate any roll over protection , but anything built today will far surpass that old motorhome. Never a fan of crew cabs

 

[S2DM]

How much smaller of a chassis? It doesn't seem you have many alternatives besides what you have. I could see , doing a similar camper but on a regular cab, same length but you gain more camper space. Can the child ride in the middle of a bench seat on a regular cab truck? Crew cabs eat up a ton of possible 'living' space, and Toyota doesnt have the payload.

Going with a ram 3500, its really only smaller in the width category but that 7" narrower actually makes a huge difference. My preliminary calcs show us coming in about 2500-3000 lbs lighter which will also be a big deal, available front and rear lockers, probably diesel this time, simpler systems overall. I built mine from scratch and while its nowhere near as heavy as an ER, there still some extra fat in there for a bunch of reasons.