A Hawk in the Arctic

kerry

Expedition Leader
Our last trip was 0 degrees celcius daytime and -5 ish overnight. We use some dollarstore automotive reflective sun shields as the oversize ones tuck into the hardwall and fit snugly to the roof. Using these (15 dollars total for 5), our furnace only runs half the time it would without the insulators. They are reflective both sides and seem to be made of a durable bubblewrap type construction. Our condensation situation went from a morning wipe of walls and roof, to just a wipe in the sleeping compartment. Hope this helps. Sometimes simple is right. My wife bought these for the cab of the truck as that is where we keep our food, coolers and these worked so good to insulate in plus 30 degree C. She suggested them for the cold and we haven't looked back. The reflective on the inside helps with interior lighting as well.
We bought the aluminum foil skinned bubble insulation from Home Depot and cut it to fit inside around the canvas. You're right it does brighten up the interior remarkably. We store it under the mattress.
 

Mundo4x4Casa

West slope, N. Ser. Nev.
This has been an interesting thread. Lots of ways to dump the humid and insulate the shoe box. I bought some 1-1/2 inch closed cell, aluminum backing both sides insulation board and glued it to back of all my cabinets, high and low, and to all 3 front and the pass through windows with Gorilla-Sticks to anything glue. I also cut and glued insulation surrounding the propane tank compartment, which Lance failed to do at the factory, and have been impressed with the results. I think our ace-in-the-hole is that we have an old fashioned wood frame camper. We still use the lower 'secret' door on one side down low open just a bit to let cooler air enter down low and open the Fantastic fan cover just a bit to get air passing through and taking the humidity with it. We turn the heater off while sleeping, which can be a thrill the first couple minutes in the AM while standing there in your tank top. Once I get the old style perk coffee going I open the roof vent even farther and regulate more by opening the kitchen window a bit as the box heats up quickly. We have not camped in temperatures below 5 degrees F, because without heated/insulated tanks or double pane windows the whole water system would freeze into one piece: no moving parts, and has. When it gets below about 15 degrees F, and we're trying to camp, we go dry using 1 gallon containers of water stored in an insulated lower cupboard for drinking and 100%, minus 40 degree F, RV anti freeze to flush the toilet. No water in the system. Here's the total line up, of which we use only the right 3 columns:That dark green round thing is our outdoor pop-up shower enclosure we use when in warm, and remote locations using the outdoor shower. The larger ones are used when we are the support vehicle for cross country fat bike races.

When on the road, as we will be next week going down the eastern side of the Sierra Nevada to Death Valley, we pay careful attention to the temperature out as below about 15 degrees F, with the wind chill our system can freeze up quickly. You don't have much time to make up your mind. If the temp takes a sharp turn south across our freeze add 15F threshold, we will dump the tanks, fresh, grey, and black water tanks and run the pump until it's dry. Ive even used my 20 pound CO2 tank (to get the tires back up to street pressure after doing the dunes) when desperate to blowgun out the plumbing.
Keep those ideas coming. Ive learned a lot.
regards, as always, jefe
 

IdaSHO

IDACAMPER
Yep, if your camper isnt designed and built to handle the cold, you certainly need to get creative.

Built right, you dont have to worry about any cold weather problems. :ylsmoke:
 

tdesanto

Expedition Leader
Our last trip was 0 degrees celcius daytime and -5 ish overnight. We use some dollarstore automotive reflective sun shields as the oversize ones tuck into the hardwall and fit snugly to the roof. Using these (15 dollars total for 5), our furnace only runs half the time it would without the insulators. They are reflective both sides and seem to be made of a durable bubblewrap type construction. Our condensation situation went from a morning wipe of walls and roof, to just a wipe in the sleeping compartment. Hope this helps. Sometimes simple is right. My wife bought these for the cab of the truck as that is where we keep our food, coolers and these worked so good to insulate in plus 30 degree C. She suggested them for the cold and we haven't looked back. The reflective on the inside helps with interior lighting as well.
Do you happen to have any photos?
 
With all this said about aluminum being a thermal bridge (and it is) airplanes have been made of aluminum for a VERY long time. They are insulated with very thin insulation blankets and carry 150+ moister producing bodies in a small space! Flying from PHX @ 90 landing in Fairbanks @ 25 and well below -35 at altitude. They have very little condensation issues, mostly due to airflow in the cabin. Airflow is key! If the aluminum framed truck campers filled the tubing they are constructed from with expandable foam it may help some but it seems to me if you had a barrier between the skin and the framing this would cut down the thermal bridge.
 

sg1

Adventurer
From what I have learned in the meantime a barrier of 1/2" closed cell foam between either the exterioer skin or the interior walls and the frame would GREATLY reduce condensation problems on walls and ceiling. It would easily be added during production but it is difficult to add now to the finished unit.
Stefan
 

uriedog

metal melter
Do you happen to have any photos?
Sure do!

I will have to go take some new photo's. I have changed things a little since these were taken. There is now a little railing along the open side. Just there to keep anyone sitting on the bench from accidentally touching the stove.


IMG_3581.jpg
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ImageUploadedByTapatalk1419727792.852833.jpg
 

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IdaSHO

IDACAMPER
With all this said about aluminum being a thermal bridge (and it is) airplanes have been made of aluminum for a VERY long time. They are insulated with very thin insulation blankets and carry 150+ moister producing bodies in a small space! Flying from PHX @ 90 landing in Fairbanks @ 25 and well below -35 at altitude. They have very little condensation issues, mostly due to airflow in the cabin. Airflow is key! If the aluminum framed truck campers filled the tubing they are constructed from with expandable foam it may help some but it seems to me if you had a barrier between the skin and the framing this would cut down the thermal bridge.
FYI,

Airflow helps for sure, but monster AC units are how commercial flights keep the air so dry.

Without the "Environmental control system" the cabin air would be THICK with moisture, very fast.
 

uriedog

metal melter
what kind of stove is that?
I could not buy one that fit my needs or the space I had for it, so I built it myself. Very over built at that, but It should last for a long time.

This is V1. It works perfectly. The only thing I would do different next time is add a glass window.
 

kerry

Expedition Leader
Nice job on the stove. It looks about the same size as a Pipsqueak stove. By the way, in the photo of outside of your camper,is that guy retching beside it? :)
 

ripperj

Explorer
Nice job on the stove. It looks about the same size as a Pipsqueak stove. By the way, in the photo of outside of your camper,is that guy retching beside it? :)
That's funny, I had the exact same thought about the guy

Sent from my Passport
 

uriedog

metal melter
That's funny, I had the exact same thought about the guy

Sent from my Passport
HAHA no. That was my wife hiding from our kid.

I looked at that Pipsqueak stove. It's a little bigger them mine. I do like how the chimney exits the back. Allows for a bigger front door.
 
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DEnd

Observer
Hot air holds more water. Warmer you keep the camper less water seperates out in the form of condensation.

Sort of. The Dew point does lower if you just raise the temperature of the air, however if the condensing surface is still below the dew point then you will still get condensation, and the same amount (if the dew point stays the same and the condensing surface temperature stays the same). This has to do with energy flows. The simple way to describe energy flows is that Energy flows via the path of least resistance and from high to low. While that description isn't entirely correct it is the easy way to describe the complex way it actually happens. When we warm the air we also are adding energy to the water in the air. Because water can freeze and vaporize (change states from solid, to liquid, to gas) within the temperature range that air stays a gas it is the path of least resistance for energy in the air to flow. It also holds quite a bit of energy in the form of the latent heat of vaporization and the latent heat of fusion.

To reduce condensation we have to warm up the condensing surface so that it gets above the dew point, or we have to reduce the moisture load in the air so that the energy transfers go from a latent load to a sensible load. (taking the energy from the air temperature instead of the water's temperature and heat of vaporization/fusion) Just warming the air temperature is not enough, because what we are doing is warming the condensing surface, so if we do it via air temperature then we must do it enough to raise the condensing surface's temperature to above the dew point.
 
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jrod420

Observer
Do you happen to have any photos?

Only pic I have of the insulation. Sure works good. Doesn't win any beauty contests but cuts the furnace cycles in half during the night and easily 50% less condensation. Oh, and I light the camper with 4 led strips, you can see one in the pic, and the reflective helps with the lighting!
 
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