80/20 or similar to build small/removable cargo shelf ?

[steviesterno]

hey all, looking for some suggestions on materials and options to build something I've been thinking about for a while. I have a gx460 and I want something in the back for storage. In my old FJ I built a wooden drawer system based on some input from FJCruiser forums, and while it was easy enough to build it would squeak, didn't hold up well, and looked a little less refined than I want now.

what I'm trying to do is have maybe 3-4" of space in the bottom of the cargo area that would house soft cases. think rifle cases, tool cases, thin blanket, ammo boxes, long skinny tools like axes and stuff, etc. But a hard shelf on top would still allow me to throw the stroller, suitcases, whatever on top as needed. Nothing crazy weight and no fridge in the works. this will be for a daily driver more than monster truck overlander. I also want to be able to remove it easily enough for when I need the 3rd row seats.

I looked at all the drawer solutions I've seen for sale, and everything seems like $1k+. I have a chop saw/miter saw, and I'm not useless, but I don't weld. is something like 80/20 worthwhile? I figure I can put some brackets in it and set a wood topper in a frame. probably 30" or so deep, 42" wide, maybe 6" tall by the hatch and 4" by the seats ( I would have to measure but there's clearly a slope. I would put some kind of screws/brackets into the pop up tie downs that already exist. I figure with one support bracket I'm at like $60 worth of aluminum from 80/20. I would need 6 connectors around $3 each, so probably inside $100 before it's all said and done. I already have some soft cases I could probably utilize, too.

so what do ya'll think?

 

[s.e.charles]

I think your budget is unrealistic for the materials, but the idea sounds plausible.

 

[steviesterno]

WHats a realistic price for that? I thought it was 31 cents a foot?

 

[s.e.charles]

materials, in general, are usually underbudgeted. maybe i'm blowing smoke outta my backside, but consider:

* will you be able to buy exactly the lengths needed?
*will you have a purpose for all those left over 7" pieces, or do they go into the recycling bin? (waste is a very real part of any job)
*what happens if a piece is damaged (either in transit or fabrication) so
*do you buy extra so you can establish a work-flow without interruption ?(of above)
*are you including proprietary fasteners & compatible hardware? and
*can you predict/ count exactly the number of pieces required? or
*are you designing "on the fly"? which may make an estimated count a WAG at best. (and maybe trips to the local hardware store on sunday afternoon)
*are you including a $$$ amount in the budget for the top shelving (from your description)

all these things will impact your financial & time budgets. double both, and add 50%. if you come out on the short end, you will be pleased. if it goes over, you won't be as surprised.

none of this accounting includes your time, saw blades, drill bits, trip to the emergency room because you forgot to unplug the saw at lunchbreak and the neighbor's kid cut the tail off the cat, shipping fees, or taxes.

 

[dbrinkmann]

8020 prices are per inch

 

[Hummelator]

none of this accounting includes your time, saw blades, drill bits, trip to the emergency room because you forgot to unplug the saw at lunchbreak and the neighbor's kid cut the tail off the cat, shipping fees, or taxes.

im thinking there's a story here

 

[s.e.charles]

48 years of residential construction & maintenance.

 

[steviesterno]

materials, in general, are usually underbudgeted. maybe i'm blowing smoke outta my backside, but consider:

* will you be able to buy exactly the lengths needed? NO BUT SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET CLOSE AND CUT THE REST
*will you have a purpose for all those left over 7" pieces, or do they go into the recycling bin? (waste is a very real part of any job) I HAVE ROOM FOR AND KEEP MOST OF MY SPARE MATERIALS FOR FUTURE PROJECTS
*what happens if a piece is damaged (either in transit or fabrication) so IF SHIPPING i'LL GET REPLACEMENT, IF NOT I'LL ORDER MORE.
*do you buy extra so you can establish a work-flow without interruption ?(of above) ALWAYS. I OFTEN BUY/KEEP EXTRAS TO HAVE FOR SPARE OR FOR WHEN I BREAK SOMETHING
*are you including proprietary fasteners & compatible hardware? and YUP, PRICED THEM OUT. CURRENTLY LOOKING AT BETWEEN 4 AND 6 OF THEM AT $3 A POP, SO i'LL ORDER 10 FOR MESS UPS AND THE FUTURE
*can you predict/ count exactly the number of pieces required? or NOPE, BUT I CAN MEASURE THE HECK OUT OF IT 3-6X BEFORE ORDERING ANYTHING
*are you designing "on the fly"? which may make an estimated count a WAG at best. (and maybe trips to the local hardware store on sunday afternoon) I ENJOY TRIPS TO THE HARDWARE STORE WHILE I'M SWEATY AND NEED ONE MORE *(^%(_^(* I DROPPED OR BROKE.
*are you including a $$$ amount in the budget for the top shelving (from your description) ALREADY HAVE IN MY STOCKPILE. WOULD NEED CARPET TO MATCH BUT THAT'S CHEAP, I LOOKED

all these things will impact your financial & time budgets. double both, and add 50%. if you come out on the short end, you will be pleased. if it goes over, you won't be as surprised.

none of this accounting includes your time I LIKE DOING THIS, SO MY TIME IS FREE/DONATED, saw blades HAVE SOME, drill bits HAVE TONS, trip to the emergency room because you forgot to unplug the saw at lunchbreak and the neighbor's kid cut the tail off the cat WHY WOULD I TAKE A CAT TO THE ER?, shipping fees TRYING TO FIND LOCAL IF POSSIBLE, or taxes .

I tried to post above but couldn't make it bold, so please don't take the caps as screaming. just seemed like a good way to differentiate your words and mine. while I'll admit I don't have almost half a century doing this, i do have a willingness to learn, willingness to destroy significant raw materials in the process of construction (as i feel may be the best way to learn with these kinds of things) and a solid work shop of growing tools. I have done some knife making, home repairs, auto work, carpentry, etc. I always ask for/get tools for holidays so I try and stay well stocked there. I buy quality and keep it in good shape. I also learned to keep all the spares/extras/hardware I can, so realistically I would have everything in the garage already besides whatever is this project specific (tubes and those connectors).

One thing I have worked hard to develop is a solid understanding that i may, in fact, not know everything. I'm the kind of guy who's willing to ask for directions in a strange city. it's not weakness as long as I always learn from it. part of the reason I'm asking on here before I ring up the CC and go to town on some random ass metal. I won't hesitate to watch videos, read a ton, and learn from people who know more than I do on a subject so I can get better.

 

[s.e.charles]

that attitude and practice(s) will take you a long way in whatever you decide to do in life.

in another thread, it was pointed out that the fasteners used in the 80-20 system are steel, and the extrusions & components are aluminum. if you read post #7 x pappawheely, https://www.expeditionportal.com/fo...fabrication-will-it-work.193900/#post-2483568 , you'll have a better explanation that I could regurgitate.
for your system, this may not be a big consideration, but for my intent it was a bucket o' ice water and enough to make me look for another solution.

other thoughts in the same direction:

*different materials have varying/ dis-similar co-efficients of expansion.

example: parking your rig in texas sun for 3 days may cause that previously watertight fan installation to leak unless the mastic used had some serious flexible qualities.

*anything you build will go through a stress relief process.

example: all those rock-solid joints now jiggle & rattle after the 3 day trip down "devil's alley".

*be aware of any stress risers you may be creating and try to eliminate as you go along.


example: when making cut-outs (for almost anything), attempt to dill holes in the corners to create a radius opposed to cutting square or - heaven forbid - overlapping corner cuts. the base material will not have a much tendency to radiate tears/ cracks with a radius.


hold on to that until you need it.

 

[ducktapeguy]

I've worked with 80/20 and that stuff is not cheap. For 1"x 1" extrustion it's about $3-5 a foot, plus cutting and drilling chargers. It's great stuff if you need to reconfigure and break down into pieces, but for something that is basically going to stay in one spot and never change it's an expensive way to go. I priced out a similar system at one time, I would guess you're in it at least $300 or more just for materials, more if you want drawers. But if you want to use it, I say go for it. Sometimes (or most of the time in my case) it's more expensive to build it yourself, but you get the learning experience. Just consider it the teaching cost of learning a new skill.

If all you wanted was a drop in shelf with some legs then it could probably done for about $100, but you could also build it out of plywood for about $25 and have almost the same thing. Or you might want to look into Unistrut/Superstrut. Kinda like a steel version of 80/20, but cheaper and easier to get. I've use this to make an adjustable height shelf in my FJ40. An easier option is to buy stackable plastic shelving and cut the legs to fit.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-4-S...PIPHorizontal2_rr-_-100010588-_-202520643-_-N

The third row seats on the GX takes up a lot of space, by the time you build the shelf with some room underneath you're almost at the tops of the seat backs. I removed my seats and am going to put a flat platform to cover the floor so I can attach stuff. Not only do you get more room, but save a lot of weight because those seats are damn heavy.

 

[steviesterno]

I started down a dangerous and probably expensive search process after some more reading here. Have people utilized T slotted aluminum for the construction of storage? seems like it may be more versatile than the standard 1.5" square stuff and you can slap attachments into it like tie downs and crap.

 

[steviesterno]

If all you wanted was a drop in shelf with some legs then it could probably done for about $100, but you could also build it out of plywood for about $25 and have almost the same thing. that is mostly what I'm thinking. Something that doesn't have a lot of moving parts or needs a ton of connections. i'm thinking 42"x 30" as that's about what it is between the factory tie downs. will obviously measure before I order anything. Wife says no plywood, so that is factoring into the equation as well

But if you want to use it, I say go for it. Sometimes (or most of the time in my case) it's more expensive to build it yourself, but you get the learning experience. Just consider it the teaching cost of learning a new skill. I'm also not really seeing what I want. all the drawers are $400+ for even really basic.

The third row seats on the GX takes up a lot of space, by the time you build the shelf with some room underneath you're almost at the tops of the seat backs. I only want about 4" of space. that's about how thick my soft rifle cases and tool cases end up being, so I don't think it will take up too much room in there. May play with cardboard for a bit and see how it works and whatnot. I removed my seats and am going to put a flat platform to cover the floor so I can attach stuff. Not only do you get more room, but save a lot of weight because those seats are damn heavy. you pulled the 3rd row out of a 460? what's it look like down there without them? IDK if i want to store them when not in use. while that will be rare, it will happen. so hoping I can build something that pops out quick since I will know I need the 3rd row while I'm at home.

 

[ducktapeguy]

Added some other ideas to my original post above.

Goose gear makes a modular drawer system, but as you would guess they're expensive. I think Front runner might have made one too.

https://www.goose-gear.com/collections/drawer-modules

But they could probably justify the use because it has to be broken down and shipped, so for them the cost might be worth it.

What's wrong with plywood? Most people cover it with carpet so you won't know what's underneath it anyway. If you make a 4" shelf, might be difficult to access things if something happens to slide all the way to the front. Unless you make it hinged somehow. I'd at least make it large enough to reach all the way back.

Taking out the rear seats was one of the first things I did when getting the car, they're barely useful as passenger seats so I figured I don't need them. Once you take out the third row from the 460, it's just bare metal and some wire harnesses under it. I don't think I have a picture, of it, but I put down some foam squares and a rubber cargo mat to cover everything. I also removed the rear "lip" I dunno what you call it, but it's the thing that runs along the bottom of the hatch area. It's not that hard to remove, I think maybe 12-16 bolts total. Makes the space a lot more usable because the rear floor is now much lower when you load things. But I have the non power seats, the newer ones I don't know if they're the same.

Not to get too off topic, but there's a lot of wasted space in the rear fender well that I'm trying to utilize. If you pop open the cupholder back there, it's almost a foot of empty space between the interior liner and outer shell. I could fit a couple of basket balls in there, but maybe a aux battery and air compressor might be more useful. The right side has the rear AC, so not quite as much space, but still enough that it could be useful for random items.

 

[s.e.charles]

there is at least one other, (probably more), proprietary "industrial erector sets" on the market. if you've got an idea, dig into it. as mentioned above, tuition is expensive. but knowledge gained will be yours long after the project is over.

 

[rudee13]

eztube.com framing systems and drawer slide & drawers should be about the easiest & cheapest to do what you want. I would use a hdpe type solid color plastic on top/sides ( think cutting board material) if it gets stracthes it won't show as bad.

no affiliation with eztube, but it's exactly what I would use to dyi some of the high $$ stuff. There's another place but I can't find info. but I think all this type material is falls under boltless framing systems.

go crazy & have fun!

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