4x4 Van Options

[michael_l]

Good evening!

I have become mildly obsessed with building a camper van for the wife / dog / and I. Currently I'm barely scratching the research point and attempting to determine if I can or would want to drive this van daily/regularly. I told myself I'd be driving in a VW California if they brought it over at 50k. What's not to like, awd, diesel, stick shift, and camper mobile. Winning. Too bad vw doesn't see it fit to bring it to our states.

I am investigating everything under the sun right now, from 4x4 sprinters to e150-350, to transits, etc. The million ($40,000) question, is which way do people lean?

Sprinters are expensive, but they offer almost everything the vw does but at about a 10k premium (plus I would prefer the pop top for daily commuting low profile and the smaller more fuel efficient engine.

Sportsmobiles are cool, but I would certainly be in the used category and I think I would prefer a more flexible layout / less permanent rv and more capable for trips to lowes on the weekend and towing a boat once in a while.

Ford e series vans are definitely a good option, as there are tons of them available in every price range as long as your color choice is white. It appears as if you can find them for 15-20 k with the 4x4 conversion already completed.

Transits/ Promaster/Nissan etc are all on the table but not really available used, certainly not prevalent with quigley conversions at this point, and quite expensive. Once you buy one and put 4x4 on it, then you're up in sprinter 4x4 territory and might as well go that way.

What are we going to do with it? Forest service roads mostly, but also the second tier (unmaintained service roads), 4x4 is to allow transportation in snow states and winter camping, and I guess really just my piece of mind. Realistically? I'd probably be okay with a rwd e series van, a front winch and max tracks to get out of sticky situations but...I'm struggling with that

As for our build out, I'd probably put a simple solar solution or goal zero, fridge, counter to plate the Cook Partner stove on, a sink with a 5 gallon bucket to catch the gray water, and a porta potty for night time. Nothing too permanent, maybe a shower set up for outside off the back door.

So, all that considered, how many of you have been in a similar situation? Which way did you go? Thoughts on the matter? Right now we're in a great stock 2005 4 runner which is awesome for access and holds all our camping gear but a little cold when it's 15 out, and makes it a bit more work to get ready loaded and unloaded.

I look forward to your thoughts and suggestions!

 

[pugslyyy]

I think some of the nicer econolines out there are the wheelchair vans (personally owned, not by a transportation company). If you don't need a diesel there are a lot of options.

craigslist search (searchtempest) for 'quigley' will show you a lot.

Why not buy a nice 2wd econoline and upgrade from there as you need?

Patience is key - you have to lie like a lion in the grass and then spring.

 

[D90Rovin]

Michael,
I was/am in your exact boat. I purchased a EuroVan Camper last year and took it on a cross country trip. It was great. Added a small amount of lift and it really transformed the vehicle to be able to handle what I did. (No serious off-roading) I stayed at a lot of BLM land, campgrounds, walmarts, and the occasional stealth camp.

Now I have the bug and want 4wd. The EV actually did well in the snow storms that we encountered but while visiting Breckenridge , I did get a little stuck on a hill too steep and had to take the long way around. Cruising manners were great and MPG not bad at all. 15 on the low side and up to 20 on the high.

 

[michael_l]

It's sort of an interesting predicament as I work through needs vs wants, use vs dreams, space inside vs space in my driveway etc.

The 2 wd econoline is certainly the most cost effective way. Buy something cheap, build it out as needed, and just use it. If I find I get stuck then investigate the 4x4 conversion because treads, bumper, and winch can be had for much less than a u joint kit. I have only just now started to investigate the pop up options for these trucks. I'm debating because I really want to be able to stand up inside for cooking and hanging when the weather is foul, but other than sportsmobile, there doesn't seem to be too many options.

I like the eurovans, just can't bring myself to spend 20k + on a 20 year old vehicle with 100,000 miles. Especially when the T6 van offered in Europe is what I really want.

Most of our trips are weekend blasts because the USMC doesn't really like to let me take extended trips regardless of the season unless they are the travel agent. I like the idea of the van because it adds in comfort to our camping and can be kept ready to go for the most part.

The other thing I am sort of debating internally, is that I told myself if VW brought the California over I would buy it at 50k. Then I started looking at what made it appealing to me, and came up with the following. It's the diesel (not necessarily for longevity but for mileage and torque; I like the Jetta diesels I've driven, was a great around town engine), the AWD for snow and BLM access, the fact that it's not huge, the pop up roof so I can drive it every day as a normal van, and then when I needed the space it was there, and the price wasn't outrageous at 50k....don't get me wrong, 50k is a lot of money, but it's not 100k for an rv like everything else I can buy today. Then I started looking at options we do have here, Sprinter, Metris, Transit, Nissan, or econoline. Just wish the econolines were a bit more modern [euro] looking...

Anyways, I am just rambling my thoughts here, but I appreciate the input!

 

[ert01]

While I am jealous of a fully built-out sportsmobile... my simple van has served my family extremely well over the past year-and-a-bit.

Mine's an 02 E350 with the 7.3 diesel, auto transmission, and quigley 4x4 system. It was a bare cargo van when I bought it and it just had the 2 front seats. I added a folding bed/bench out of a Chateau in the back and that's pretty much how it still sits today. The flexibility of the system is AWESOME... I can take 5 full grown adults and tons of gear to the mountains for a day, or I can go camping with my wife and 2 daughters for weeks on end comfortably. My wife and I sleep on the bed, and the girls sleep on mattresses on the floor. Plenty of room for us all and I can still fit tons of material in the back if I need to make a run to the hardware store on a weekend.

I am pretty sure that even at this point, if I get a pop-top installed, that I will not build any fancy cabinetry or appliances into the van... it would take away from the versatility and flexibility that I've come to appreciate about the van.

While the concept of a fully kitted-out Sportsmobile still appeals to me (the ability to leave it packed and ready at a moments notice is enticing), I just don't think I would get as much use out of such a single-purpose system. The Sportsmobile Transformer layout is the closest thing that I've found to what my needs/desires are for a van.

 

[michael_l]

While I am jealous of a fully built-out sportsmobile... my simple van has served my family extremely well over the past year-and-a-bit.

Mine's an 02 E350 with the 7.3 diesel, auto transmission, and quigley 4x4 system. It was a bare cargo van when I bought it and it just had the 2 front seats. I added a folding bed/bench out of a Chateau in the back and that's pretty much how it still sits today. The flexibility of the system is AWESOME... I can take 5 full grown adults and tons of gear to the mountains for a day, or I can go camping with my wife and 2 daughters for weeks on end comfortably. My wife and I sleep on the bed, and the girls sleep on mattresses on the floor. Plenty of room for us all and I can still fit tons of material in the back if I need to make a run to the hardware store on a weekend.

I am pretty sure that even at this point, if I get a pop-top installed, that I will not build any fancy cabinetry or appliances into the van... it would take away from the versatility and flexibility that I've come to appreciate about the van.

While the concept of a fully kitted-out Sportsmobile still appeals to me (the ability to leave it packed and ready at a moments notice is enticing), I just don't think I would get as much use out of such a single-purpose system. The Sportsmobile Transformer layout is the closest thing that I've found to what my needs/desires are for a van.

Totally agree here, and sort of where I was leaning. I feel like if I can't use it every day then I can't justify it. Nothing expect possibly stereo, insulation, and walls will have to remain in the van for my vision. Bed / lower cabinet etc will all be removable whether for bikes, groceries, or plywood. I think that's why I like the aesthetics of the euro vans, they just look better for daily or regular driving.

 

[Jason911]

Travel to Europe, spend a month or so wandering around all the while post here on ExPo for us to lust over, maybe take in Abenteuer & Allrad (https://www.abenteuer-allrad.de/en) and share your findings with pictures for us to view and lust after, rub shoulders and hobnob with some of the greats out there, share a beer with Scott Brady, and then purchase a 25 year-old Euro something that has a ridiculously low 15,000k on it for an equally absurd low price. Post your findings/purchases on here for us to lust after. Put that Euro thing in a container and ship it over here to a port of your choosing, get it cleared by customs when it arrives, and then drive it about the Great Outdoors of North America and post your travel on here for all of us to lust after. Easy enough + you'll get to accumulate memories and we'll get to dream!

 

[michael_l]

Travel to Europe, spend a month or so wandering around all the while post here on ExPo for us to lust over, maybe take in Abenteuer & Allrad (https://www.abenteuer-allrad.de/en) and share your findings with pictures for us to view and lust after, rub shoulders and hobnob with some of the greats out there, share a beer with Scott Brady, and then purchase a 25 year-old Euro something that has a ridiculously low 15,000k on it for an equally absurd low price. Post your findings/purchases on here for us to lust after. Put that Euro thing in a container and ship it over here to a port of your choosing, get it cleared by customs when it arrives, and then drive it about the Great Outdoors of North America and post your travel on here for all of us to lust after. Easy enough + you'll get to accumulate memories and we'll get to dream!

Yes....um to everything. If only I wouldn't be UA and missed, I would do that. Alas, I have a few more years before I can write off life and begin living it. But seriously, that sounds perfect (and I've long began socializing that idea with the wife....)

 

[michael_l]

Didn't want to start a new thread, but I had an idea while out walking tonight.

Why doesn't anyone buy a 4x4 F350 or whatever, and graft a construction van back end onto it? The ford vans are body on frame right? Couldn't you just pick up a van that was in a head on collision and graft the body onto a pick up truck? Then you already have the 4x4 chassis and you would probably spend less than the 10k a 4x4 conversion costs to weld the van body on?

I'm sure there is a good reason or others would have done this, but I can't think of it. I guess I'm just wondering why you see so many van chassis with the utility van or otherwise plumbing / uhaul / box van on the back, but not pick ups.

Can anyone tell me why this wouldn't work? Seems like a better way to get an integrated 4x4 system that is supplied from the factory.

 

[pugslyyy]

I think that one of the reasons folks like vans is the space-efficient design. Instead of having the motor in front, you ride astride it.

 

[Haf-E]

Here you go - a bit old but it shows your idea:

http://hooniverse.com/2016/02/11/di...-more-awesome-less-terrible-than-youd-expect/

I think the downside is that you are then driving a pick-up truck with its large turning radius and extra length - compared to a van.

 

[Haf-E]

You might want to check out what the company "Van Compass" is working on - they are developing a 4wd conversion for the T1N Sprinter (first USA generation - 5 cylinder diesels) which uses parts from a Mercedes ML320 SUV. Might end up becoming the new "syncro" option... https://vancompass.com/blogs/news

Personally - I really like the high top T1N sprinters - I have 200,000 on mine - decent power, speed and economy - and no DEF/DPF emissions system to worry about. Available from 2002 to 2006. Much warmer in the winter than a poptop and lots more room. Whenever I see a pop-top van with a cargo box, surf boards or bikes, etc on the roof - I always think that my high top sprinter makes much more sense. The sprinter also has so much more room inside compared to a VW Vanagon or EV.

 

[luthj]

Given your budget flexibility it all comes down to the 4x4 and high/low roof needs.

First question, is there any technical reason you cannot use a high-roof van in your daily driving? Parking garage, low clearance areas etc? I find that my high roof van does not drive or park noticeably different than low roof vans with the exception of parking garages.

The high roof has several strong points. It adds tons of dry permanent storage. This can allow for a fully stocked/equipped van that can still be used for DD and seating 4+ if needed. It can be permanently insulated. With a diesel cab heater (espar webasto) you can camp in comfort even in frigid weather. Add some cross ventilation or a powered roof vent, and you can stay comfortable in warm weather as well. Once you get used to the standing room, its really hard to go back to a low roof or pop-top.

Do you need 4x4? I may still do a 4x4 conversion on my van at some point. But honestly the single most important thing after tires is ground clearance. Its surprising how far a 2WD with good clearance, tires, and driver can go. With a set of chains 2WDs are can be quite capable in snow and mud as well.


I would choose the vehicle that best meets your primary needs. If it ends up having 4x4 then all the better. You might consider renting, borrowing, checking out various builds/vehicles in person. Do you live in/near Arizona? The Overland Expo West is in Flagstaff next month. It would be a great place to visit and check out hundreds of different vehicles/builds. From factory to full-on custom. I am tentatively considering visiting myself.

 

[michael_l]

Here you go - a bit old but it shows your idea:

http://hooniverse.com/2016/02/11/di...-more-awesome-less-terrible-than-youd-expect/

I think the downside is that you are then driving a pick-up truck with its large turning radius and extra length - compared to a van.

This is definitely a dated version of sort of what I was talking about. I hadn't thought if the length issue so that certainly makes some sense as well.

As to whether I need 4x4 or rear wheel drive with traction Mata and winch/locker, well I suppose that's a question of budget. One can certainly camp a long time and cover a lot of miles of adventure for the cost of a 4x4 conversion.

I guess we'll see in the future. Sounds like an awd express with a locker might be the ticket for me.

Thanks for the responses.

Michael

 

[350outrage]

I like the simple / flexible approach. We throw a couple cots and all our gear in the back when its time to camp. On the 4wd issue, the times I use mine are: 1)Colorado ski trips, 2) driving across cow pastures on wife's farm, and 3) boat launching on gravel or muddy ramp. The 4wd was absolutely Crucial on our mid March ski trip; spent an entire week locked in 4hi running back and forth to ski area, and eventually got caught in last month's Denver Whiteout. I dont think we would have made it to the hotel w/o 4wd.