4d34 turbo advice needed

canter tourer

Adventurer
Ok, getting ready to finally make my old girl more pleasant on the long stretches, just in time for a trip in September and so its time to finally fit a turbo. Its a 1996 fg639 dual cab with the 4d34 engine.

Have been looking at the ebay kits https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Kinugaw...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649, but there are a number of different turbo options available from the same seller. I have no previous experience with turbo's, so its all a bit of a mystery to me on which one to pick, but the actual spanner work of fitting it up is something I can do and it will be intercooled.
I did email them and this was the reply:

"Thanks for your message,
Customer can according to your require to choose different spec turbo.
the turbo spec is TD06-16G> TD05H-18G >TD05H-17C > TD05H-16G

largest turbo can make more hp, torque and keep top end speed, but turbo response will not the quick as a small spec turbo
small spec turbo can quicker spool up."

This hasn't really made it any clearer for me in choosing one, although it seems the td05h-18g is an upgrade from the stock factory turbo canters, so this would seem to make sense to choose, otherwise I can find little when searching the www on which way to go.

Any gurus got any non binding advice / ideas for me..... Thanks in advance
Dave
 

Aussie Iron

Explorer
Amesz00 is right .
Go the smallest one
This is what I am running at the time being but that will change when I get around to testing another setup that i have in mind. I am happy with it and would certainly go back to it if the other one I try is not as good as I'm hopeing.

http://MAMBA GTX Turbocharger TOYOTA 7MGTE Supra Soarer 3" TD05H-16G 7cm + 9 Blade TW

You are looking for a Big 16G compressor wheel and you don't want the anti surge compressor housing. I had to change mine as I couldn't get hardly any boost. We don't seem to be able to drive the Turbo hard enough with our engines (not revving high enough).
The reason to change to another Turbo for me is to try and get the drive pressure down (pressure in the exhaust manifold) so the change will be to a 8cm exhaust housing to try. A turbo with a 6cm exhaust housing will have an increase in drive pressure and is not what you want. I could go into it more but.


Now I've confused you more,
Dan.


 
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Amesz00

Adventurer
Dan, are you sure there wasn't a fault in the ported compressor cover? The only thing surge porting should do is extend the map further to the left. It's not for high rpm flow- the opposite.
What drive pressure are you getting, and how much lag do you get?

The td05 in the factory turbo 4d34 is already a little too big in the turbine ar. I think I read it's 8 or 10cm. My old one, with wg wired shut, open exhaust and dpchip turned up still would only make 10 @1850, max 17@3200. Good fuel economy on the hwy but painfully laggy on hills or soft sand.
 

canter tourer

Adventurer
Amesz00 is right .

Now I've confused you more,
Dan.


Yes Dan, seems to be a bit of a dark art and your link seems to be broken.. So it seems not to be as simple a task as I'd hoped. Who'd have thought buying an off the shelf 'kit' could be so hard.:)

Judging by what's been said, the smallest one would be the tdo5h-16g, so it would seem that i'll be exchanging more 'chinglish' emails to try and work out which other ones they can provide as there is no 'kit' advertised with that size, but they will apparently put together whichever one you choose.

Is there a visual way of picking an anti surge housing from one that isn't?

Amesz, given I'm starting fresh with no turbo, I assumed some sort of an upgraded turbo would've been the go, but the stock sized one may be suitable after all, although not perfect either by the sounds of things..

Dave
 

Aussie Iron

Explorer
Dan, are you sure there wasn't a fault in the ported compressor cover? The only thing surge porting should do is extend the map further to the left. It's not for high rpm flow- the opposite.
What drive pressure are you getting, and how much lag do you get?

The td05 in the factory turbo 4d34 is already a little too big in the turbine ar. I think I read it's 8 or 10cm. My old one, with wg wired shut, open exhaust and dpchip turned up still would only make 10 @1850, max 17@3200. Good fuel economy on the hwy but painfully laggy on hills or soft sand.
Nothing visibly wrong with the ported cover but could only get 6psi max boost, change to unported cover and boost in the 10/11psi no other change. Now this is all with waste gate wired shut as we are still looking for more boost. I'm seeing drive pressure up into the early 20s with a boost pressure highest I've seen is 13psi. From what I can research ideal drive pressure should only be 4/5psi higher than boost. Not real laggy and fuel screw was opened up 1.5 turns when I started with the first turbo and not changed since. Boost is coming on from about 1600rpm and we wish to get this lower. What I'm going to try and use is a TDO6 8cm exhaust housing and put the Big 16G compressor wheel on. In my theory the bigger exhaust wheel should spin up earlier (better leverage) with the small compressor wheel and going to the 8cm housing should bring my drive pressure down.

Yes Dan, seems to be a bit of a dark art and your link seems to be broken
You may need to copy and paste link location to make it work by the looks of it.

Is there a visual way of picking an anti surge housing from one that isn't?
They have the extra holes in them on the inside. It will usually say in the add as well.

Dan.
 

Amesz00

Adventurer
Dave, an 'upgraded' turbo just means it's larger in order to flow more air at higher boost. Which also means it'll spool slower so you'll likely lose out on bottom end. In other words it's only an upgrade if you're going to be using the extra flow potential. An Evo based 16g will flow enough to support almost 230hp on a diesel (mid to high 20s boost for a ~4L), and the td05h turbine flows more than that- depending on housing.

Dan, how smokey is it off boost, and how are the egts under 2k? If you've got room to move there, I'd say maybe try some more fuel to get it up on boost faster/earlier. If it does then you can reintroduce wg flow to bring down the DP. Just an idea.
 

canter tourer

Adventurer
Thanks for the info, so I emailed them back asking which one they recommended if I wanted it to spool up quickly and they would suggest choose TD05H-18G or TD05H-20G. Now from what I can work out that's probably still too big??
Dave
 

Aussie Iron

Explorer
Dan, how smokey is it off boost, and how are the egts under 2k? If you've got room to move there, I'd say maybe try some more fuel to get it up on boost faster/earlier. If it does then you can reintroduce wg flow to bring down the DP. Just an idea.
Not smokey at all, Egts can run into the low 600° preturbo under load below 2000 rpm. Feeding in extra fuel will probably take me back to the trouble I had before with the first turbo as in over fueling at too low a boost.

Dan.
 

yabanja

Explorer
Interesting

I am reading all of this with interest! I have looked at the Kinigawa turbos longingly. How does the 16g compare to the stock turbo fitted to my 2000 FG639? It seems like their included exhaust manifold may make a bigger difference than the turbo itself as the stock manifold looks so restrictive!

Allan
 

javajoe79

Fabricator
I can't comment specifically on your setup but I deal with turbos a ton in my shop. I would avoid any cheap off brands. Buy reputable brands like garret, borg warner, etc....
 

canter tourer

Adventurer
Still investigating all the options... the landrover 4bd1 guys seem to like the td04hl 19t, given its the same displacement engine, 3.9, with similar power, any thoughts on why it may be unsuitable for the canter engine?
Dave
 

Amesz00

Adventurer
Had forgotten about the 19t. It's a near perfect match for compressor, probably better than a 16g for up to 20psi. It's a fair bit smaller too.
Td04hl turbine I'm not sure about. Excellent low and midrange. Top end not so much. The factory turbo on the 4.9 is a td04hl-16t and it's pretty restricted even in the upper midrange (2400+ for me). If your truck spends lots of time at high revs doing 100, then it may not be the best, as it may use heaps of fuel
A td05h-19t hybrid with a 7cm would be interesting I'd say.
 

boostin

Adventurer
so I have been through a few turbos on my 4m50 4.9 truck. Started off with a 6.5cm td04hl-15t. It spooled quick but I believe it was to restrictive and not enough cfm output, 15 psi or 20 felt the exact same, actually pulled a bit harder at 15psi.

then I installed a 8cm td05h evo3 16g..... much more lag, little bit more pull but not really what I wanted.


So then i Built a 9 blade td05h 20g, kept the 8cm housing. The lighter 9 blade turbine helped spool, but slightly offset by the heavier 20g compressor wheel. so spooled about the same as the evo 3 turbo, but much more pull.....the 20g compressor really opened up the power. I can hit 23 psi no problem with the programmer, no programmer stock fuel i am good for about 18psi.


Diesels love boost, helps lower egt, the 20g has lower egts then the 16g for sure.

But I am not happy with when it starts to spool, so I am going to swap on a 7ch turbine housing this spring hoping that helps what i need.

I would not go back to the td04hl though, I dont think the compressor wheels flow enough.

Ideally I would like to find a 6cm td05h housing and build the 25g compressor, i feel lit would be decent spool with some good cfm to keep the egts down

I work the truck pretty hard usually up to 26000gvw with trailer and some decent grades.
 

CropDuster

Observer
There are a lot of people using the Big 16G TD05H with 6cm housing on TD42 Nissan diesel engines that make good power/torque with a nice early spool up, I don't see why that spec wouldn't work well on the canters 3.9L

UFI in Western Aus might be able to offer some advice as they do a lot with the Mitsu turbos
 

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