40+ Imported Defenders seized by Homeland Security Today (developing story)

REDrum

Aventurero de la Selva
As other have noted this DHS seizure effort seems to be primarily about Defenders stolen in UK and EU that managed to get into the Us, more so than just non-compliant <25 year old trucks.

The trouble is, when even a non stolen truck is seized by DHS it will be re-scrutinized for safety compliance--as if it is being introduced to US for first time. Thats where A LOT of people are starting to wig-out. If the truck is 100% >25 years old no sweat, but an updated engine may, now, be a deal breaker to CBP.
 

discotdi

Adventurer
Everyone one of these seizures was supported by a warrant, signed by a magistrate who found probable cause for the seizure. Each of these warrants has a section, where the facts establishing probable cause for the seizure are spelled out, in plain English. Another section spells out the violation(s) of law, and the legal basis for the seizures, so any Rover owner whining that the Government took their truck and they have no idea why, actually knows exactly why and knew before the truck left the driveway.
How do you know? Have you seen the warrant?
 

jdlobb

Adventurer
There's no question that some do…BUT…some also are the 3rd, 4th or 5th owner who where caught 100% off guard by the sleazy dealings of a scumbag who knew exactly what he was doing by importing vehicles that were clearly non-conforming…

Exactly. The real "bad guys" in this are the criminals who imported the vehicles illegally and passed them off to buyers who trusted them. Blaming DHS or trying to make the government look like the bad guy here is flat out WRONG. The government didn't steal these people's trucks, the importer stole their money.
 

Bigunit

Adventurer
In the USA, the doctrine of "buyer beware" is very much alive...me thinks that our younger generations who have never had to sacrifice anything and believe in instant gratification, have yet to realize that sometimes, life isn't fair and you don't always get a trophy for just breathing air. Do your due diligence and follow the law...it isn't that hard and don't make excuses. There's always a reason why it was such a great deal. Man up and pay the piper!
 

discotdi

Adventurer
yeah, there was a redacted copy posted on D90 earlier today. I don't think it is there anymore.

That was two pages of a warrant that was probably 10 to 40 pages long. It did not show probable cause for each individual VIN listed. Very broad and over reaching.
Many people on this thread really need to shut the h*ll up about buyer beware, to good to be true or whatever. Most people that have had their truck seized are the second or third owner. The trucks have been registered and titled in the US for many years.
How could they protect themselves? If one buys a car from an individual or certainly a dealer with clear title etc and three or four years later the police seize the car because it has a stolen part on it, how the h*ll are you suppose to protect yourself fom that?? As has been stated here many times, these Trucks are being targeted because they allegedly have stolen parts not because they don't comply with regs. And besides again the buyers relied on the fact that the very Govt agency that now is seizing these trucks initially allowed them into the country to be sold!
 

discotdi

Adventurer
..blah, blah, blah..don't like American common law, move to Russia!

I think Russia probably follows the same doctrine. If I want better consumer protection I could just move pretty much anywhere in Western Europe or Canada or even California.
However, Caveat Emptor does not apply when the seller commits fraud, which seems to be the case here.
But thanks for your great contribution to the forum. AZ is proud I'm sure. Oh and blah, blah, blah...!
 

jdlobb

Adventurer
That was two pages of a warrant that was probably 10 to 40 pages long. It did not show probable cause for each individual VIN listed. Very broad and over reaching.
Many people on this thread really need to shut the h*ll up about buyer beware, to good to be true or whatever. Most people that have had their truck seized are the second or third owner. The trucks have been registered and titled in the US for many years.
How could they protect themselves? If one buys a car from an individual or certainly a dealer with clear title etc and three or four years later the police seize the car because it has a stolen part on it, how the h*ll are you suppose to protect yourself fom that?? As has been stated here many times, these Trucks are being targeted because they allegedly have stolen parts not because they don't comply with regs. And besides again the buyers relied on the fact that the very Govt agency that now is seizing these trucks initially allowed them into the country to be sold!

sometimes you simply can't protect yourself. These owners got screwed by a corrupt dealer, they're victims, and I feel sympathy for them. But the crime against them was the fraudulent sale, not the confiscated property.
 

Bigunit

Adventurer
Stand on your toes son...my comments are going over your head! You obviously care what I have to say...but in all honesty and sorry to give you more butt-hurt, but I really don't care what you think about me...keep it up and I will continue to get under your skin. After all, you and I are entitled to our opinions. Let's just agree to disagree. :p
 
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proper4wd

Expedition Leader
The more that this story comes out, the more I think we all will be siding with the Fed. (As much as it pains me to say that)

It will take months or years but the truth will come out.
 

jdlobb

Adventurer
The more that this story comes out, the more I think we all will be siding with the Fed. (As much as it pains me to say that)

It will take months or years but the truth will come out.

Congratulations and trusting rationality and sense over tin-foil hats and anarchy.
 

haven

Expedition Leader
Let's keep comments from getting personal. Like the rules say,

"...spirited and intelligent debate is encouraged. Flaming is when a debate becomes personal, with personal insult. Debating a specific point is fine, but calling someone "stupid" is not."

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/2-Welcome-to-the-Expedition-Portal-Forum-Rules-etiquette-etc
 

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