2020 Ram 2500 and FWC Hawk Slide-In - good combo or potential issues?

LokiBear303

New member
Following, I'm in the process of deciding between a 2500 and 3500 for my new rig and have the same issue. I'm getting a lot of mixed opinions on what the 2500 is truly capable of.
2500 has been great for light to medium hauling & our current setup allows us to load gear and find remote places, while retaining ability to do "truck" stuff. If I had known we would eventually go the camper route however, a 3500 would've been more versatile tool for the job. May be one for sale soon! ?
 

LokiBear303

New member
x2 what ramblinChet said. Over at Wander the West forum, the often heard comment is to buy a 350/3500 if you are going to put a slide in camper on it, even a "light" one like a FWC. Many folks over there upgraded from a 3/4 ton to a 1 ton and comment on how much better the 1 ton handles the load.
Thanks for the heads up on WtW, I'll check it out. Seems like the consensus is hd leaf sprung truck. I wonder if future me will be looking back at this thread with regret for not going full 5500 chassis with a flatbed tray and a helicopter landing pad ?!
 

renglekirk

Member
Can anyone chime in on how exactly the 3500 gains the extra payload over the 2500? Is the frame stiffer and boxed vs channel, stouter leaf packs, stronger axels.. I know the dually upgrade helps a lot with the weight but a lot of the 3500s are SRW and I'd likely stick with that. For what it's worth I'm looking at the 4th gen gassers ('12-'16) because they fit my budget.
 

tacollie

Glamper
@renglekirk The biggest issue carrying a camper is the coil sprung end. It tends to get more sway than the leaf sprung rear end. I really wanted a RAM 2500 for the coil sprung rear end and better turning radius (compared to Ford). We ended up with a F250 because we like the interior better.

The gas 2500s have decent payload IMO. What are you wanting to use the truck for?
 

LokiBear303

New member
@renglekirk The difference, as @tacollie mentioned, is the coils vs leaf springs. From what I can tell some of the 3500s have a higher GAWR as well. My 2500 payload capacity is listed at 2118lbs and the exact same version of the 3500 is listed at 3890lbs. Add a dually or 8ft bed and it goes up another 1k or so. I want to stick with the highest payload on the shortest wheelbase.
 

LokiBear303

New member
The consensus and my gut are saying sell. Now I have to figure out a fair price for the current 2500. Has anyone seen similar vehicles go for sale recently? I have been checking the classified links and by EP members without too much luck. Thanks!
 

ramblinChet

Well-known member
Here is some information that I collected for another post comparing gas and diesel engines and their associated payloads. I added some commentary at the end regarding 2500 versus 3500:

Here are the payload numbers from 2021. GAS is 6.4L Hemi, DIE is standard 6.7L Cummins, and DIE HO is high output 6.7L Cummins.

RAM 2500 4X4 REGULAR CAB: TRADESMAN 8' BOX (GAS 3.7k / DIE 2.8k)
RAM 2500 4X4 CREW CAB: TRADESMAN 6'4" BOX (GAS 3.4k / DIE 2.5k)
RAM 2500 4X4 CREW CAB: TRADESMAN W/ RAMBOX (GAS 3.2k / DIE 2.4k)
RAM 2500 4X4 CREW CAB: TRADESMAN 8' BOX (GAS 3.1k / DIE 2.2k)

RAM 3500 4X4 REGULAR CAB: TRADESMAN 8' BOX SRW (GAS 4.6k / DIE 4.5k / DIE HO 4.4k)
RAM 3500 4X4 REGULAR CAB: TRADESMAN 8' BOX DRW (GAS 7.2k / DIE 6.4k / DIE HO 6.1k)
RAM 3500 4X4 CREW CAB: TRADESMAN 6'4" BOX (GAS 4.3k / DIE 4.3k / DIE HO 4.0k)
RAM 3500 4X4 CREW CAB: TRADESMAN W/ RAMBOX (GAS 4.1k / DIE 4.1k / DIE HO 3.9k)
RAM 3500 4X4 CREW CAB: TRADESMAN 8' BOX SRW (GAS 4.5k / DIE 4.5k / DIE HO 4.3k)
RAM 3500 4X4 CREW CAB: TRADESMAN 8' BOX DRW (GAS 6.7k / DIE 5.9k / DIE HO 5.6k)
RAM 3500 4X4 MEGA CAB: BIG HORN / LONE STAR 6'4" BOX SRW (GAS 4.3k / DIE 4.3k / DIE HO 4.1k)
RAM 3500 4X4 MEGA CAB: BIG HORN / LONE STAR 6'4" BOX DRW (GAS 6.6k / DIE 5.7k / DIE HO 5.5k)
RAM 3500 4X4 MEGA CAB: BIG HORN / LONE STAR W/ RAMBOX (GAS 4.3k / DIE 4.1k / DIE HO 4.0k)

It looks like the gas engine wins most every time while there are a few ties with the non-HO engine. Sometimes the difference is only a few hundred pounds whereas other times it is around 1/2 ton. GAS wins 69% of the time while GAS and DIE tie 31%. Diesel never carries more payload when compared to gas. I guess is really depends upon your individual package.


All averages are SRW GAS:

Regular cab 2500/3500 (3.7k/4.6k)
Crew Cab 2500/2500 (3.2k/4.3k)
 

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renglekirk

Member
The gas 2500s have decent payload IMO. What are you wanting to use the truck for?
Initially I'd run something like an old FWC Grandby and haul my motorcycle, but eventually I'd like to convert to a flatbed and build something custom. That'd be a multi-year kinda project but there's plenty of inspiration here. The fully loaded weight of the FWC with moto alone gets close to a 2500 payload.

I'd be surprised if it really is just coils vs leafs but maybe that's all it is. If that's the case I could imagine being able to greatly increase your payload on a 2500 working on the suspension, but I've heard stories that can invalidate your insurance..

@LokiBear303 How many miles are you at? I'm assuming you've done all the req'd maintenance? I've been looking at mostly stock 2500's for a while and they range quite a bit from the mid-20s to mid-30s depending on trim and mileage. Obviously they're all well above KBB right now.
 

tacollie

Glamper
@renglekirk If you already owned a 2500 I'd say run it. If you're shopping I would consider stepping up to 3500 mostly for the leaf springs. If you're open to it I would consider an F-250 or F-350 from the same era. I think the 6.2 is a better motor and the F250 was almost identical to the F350. There are pros and cons with RAM or Ford. I'm sure whatever you end up with you'll be happy with.
 

tacollie

Glamper
You're not the first person to mention this. They're not off my list, the Rams seem easier to come by though and honestly I just like the look of them more. If a deal popped up though I'd likely jump on it.
I get that. You seem to get more bang for your buck with the RAMs. We prefer the looks of the Ford which definitely affected our decision. My wife would still be talking trash if I bought a RAM ?
 

LokiBear303

New member
Initially I'd run something like an old FWC Grandby and haul my motorcycle, but eventually I'd like to convert to a flatbed and build something custom. That'd be a multi-year kinda project but there's plenty of inspiration here. The fully loaded weight of the FWC with moto alone gets close to a 2500 payload.

I'd be surprised if it really is just coils vs leafs but maybe that's all it is. If that's the case I could imagine being able to greatly increase your payload on a 2500 working on the suspension, but I've heard stories that can invalidate your insurance..

@LokiBear303 How many miles are you at? I'm assuming you've done all the req'd maintenance? I've been looking at mostly stock 2500's for a while and they range quite a bit from the mid-20s to mid-30s depending on trim and mileage. Obviously they're all well above KBB right now.
I found a guy that does custom leaf and coil springs. Could help keep rear from swinging all over the place but it still feels like a compromise. I only have 16k miles on the truck. Gonna lose my ****** if I upgrade to the exact same truck in 3500 version. I like the idea of hauling a moto. I've got a spare tire carrier that my bike rack attaches to and man those bikes can get rocked pretty good, wonder how a motto moto would do in the rear.
 

GeorgeHayduke

Active member
You've got a really nicely built out truck, so I'd spend a little more time thinking about if you can adapt your camping style to make the current truck work and avoid wasting a bunch of money. The coil suspension can be pretty nice offroad compared to leafs if you keep your weight modest, especially with all the work you've done to it.

Could you get away with a popup topper like a Go Fast Camper or the many others on the market now? Or maybe the FWC shell model instead of the hawk or a Total Composites shell if you want something hardsided?

Looking at your packing list, I think there's a lot of weight you could save. You mention 35's in your first post but have 37's in your spreadsheet. 35's will fit in the normal spare location, so why not ditch the rigd carrier? It also looks like you're counting the weight of the spare but didn't subtract out the OEM spare tire. You can also subtract out the tailgate weight as mentioned before. Weight behind the axle matters the most, so these could make a big difference. Don't try to carry a moto.

Do you really need the rotopax and extra fuel? Even loaded up with our camper, our 2016 Ram 2500 usually had 400 miles of range. Ditch the cargo box and swap the steps for light folding plastic ones. Are you really going to be carrying the driver, 3 passengers, and 3 dogs all at the same time? Or bikes and SUP's on the same trip? How about removing part of the rear seats where the dogs sit? The propane weight may already be factored into the FWC weight. Think real hard about that 270 awning vs a basic tarp.

I think one could also argue that the weight increase of the aftermarket wheels and tires doesn't exactly count against payload (except for the spare). Heavier wheels and tires will certainly affect braking, acceleration, etc but that is unsprung weight and it's not changing the load on the coils.

If you're within the tire ratings, each axle rating, and are happy with the loaded driving dynamics from the coils I'd say send it!
 

LokiBear303

New member
You've got a really nicely built out truck, so I'd spend a little more time thinking about if you can adapt your camping style to make the current truck work and avoid wasting a bunch of money. The coil suspension can be pretty nice offroad compared to leafs if you keep your weight modest, especially with all the work you've done to it.

Could you get away with a popup topper like a Go Fast Camper or the many others on the market now? Or maybe the FWC shell model instead of the hawk or a Total Composites shell if you want something hardsided?

Looking at your packing list, I think there's a lot of weight you could save. You mention 35's in your first post but have 37's in your spreadsheet. 35's will fit in the normal spare location, so why not ditch the rigd carrier? It also looks like you're counting the weight of the spare but didn't subtract out the OEM spare tire. You can also subtract out the tailgate weight as mentioned before. Weight behind the axle matters the most, so these could make a big difference. Don't try to carry a moto.

Do you really need the rotopax and extra fuel? Even loaded up with our camper, our 2016 Ram 2500 usually had 400 miles of range. Ditch the cargo box and swap the steps for light folding plastic ones. Are you really going to be carrying the driver, 3 passengers, and 3 dogs all at the same time? Or bikes and SUP's on the same trip? How about removing part of the rear seats where the dogs sit? The propane weight may already be factored into the FWC weight. Think real hard about that 270 awning vs a basic tarp.

I think one could also argue that the weight increase of the aftermarket wheels and tires doesn't exactly count against payload (except for the spare). Heavier wheels and tires will certainly affect braking, acceleration, etc but that is unsprung weight and it's not changing the load on the coils.

If you're within the tire ratings, each axle rating, and are happy with the loaded driving dynamics from the coils I'd say send it!
@GeorgeHayduke I like the way you think! I've dragged my wife out camping in the cold and loaded my 90lb husky into the RTT enough times that we're set on a FWC Hawk with amenities. I actually revised my payload spreadsheet to incorporate some of the potential weight savings as you described and it looks much more manageable. The cost of selling my current rig and starting over with a 3500 (which I should've done from the beginning) is enough to persuade me to try it out. We can always pop the camper into another truck and you're right about the 2500s great handling off road. I tried fitting the 35 in the factory stock area but it wouldn't fit, might need to try it again deflated. Appreciate the thoughtful input!
 

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