2020 Defender Spy Shots....

[Colin Hughes]

Guess you have to move to Canada

I wish you were correct,
Land rovers number one market is Southern California,
guess what, Southern California Land Rover club has less than 15 members, from that 15 only 8 of us go off road, from those 8 memebers 3 of them sold the rovers and have, 2002 land cruiser, 2009 rubicon, 2002 G wagon and my H1 or the stupid Tacoma,
and every single event that we go to every month, we have not seen one single other Land Rover out there playing.

But Jeeps ? Groups and groups all the time.

Fact, Land Rover brand most definitely is not being used off road in USA or maybe 1%

But the interesting part is that we are still members of Southern California Land Rover club haha without rovers.

 

[nickw]

I wish you were correct,
Land rovers number one market is Southern California,
guess what, Southern California Land Rover club has less than 15 members, from that 15 only 8 of us go off road, from those 8 memebers 3 of them sold the rovers and have, 2002 land cruiser, 2009 rubicon, 2002 G wagon and my H1 or the stupid Tacoma,
and every single event that we go to every month, we have not seen one single other Land Rover out there playing.

But Jeeps ? Groups and groups all the time.

Fact, Land Rover brand most definitely is not being used off road in USA or maybe 1%

But the interesting part is that we are still members of Southern California Land Rover club haha without rovers.

Their #1 market may be the USA but they still sell WAY more outside the US......

 

[onemanarmy]

What problem does IFS rear cause? You don't like high torque fuel efficient engines? LED lights are much more reliable than the old bulbs.....

Body on frame? Meh, Jeep Cherokees seem to have held up just fine....

Independent suspensions introduce so many more wear items and complexity compounded by their insistence on using air springs.

I'd like to see some data on the "much more" reliability of LED vs. regular auto bulbs, especially given the price, the money and time spent to design a vehicle specifc light assembly, and the ability of anyone with a screwdriver and $4 to change one. Sure, they can look cool and use less electricity, which has its place in certain cases. I doubt a potential 2020 Defender buyer would say no to it because it had regular taillight bulbs.

I'm fine with 'high' torque engines in vehicles meant to pull heavy loads or make quick 0-60 runs.

Hence my 'long haul' comment.

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[calicamper]

You simply tax diesel fuel significantly in areas with smog problems and let markets decide, I live in an area with smog issues.. Ive owned just about every iteration of the TDI in north america.. I dont really drive em in the city tho, I could if I wanted too but the engine would gunk up quick w/high EGR load.. I drive a gas engine because it warms up on the 10min drive to work in the morning, or the 4 mins to the grocery store.

My VW TDI let me drive all over north america w/a small cargo trailer, getting better fuel economy and producing far, far less emissions than any truck I could have bought.. new DPF was pretty cheap actually, they did fine as a niche product for over a decade, wasn't an issue until a bunch of people traded priuses in for em thinking the'd be great for driving all the time for less than 10mins, not realizing thats when they pollute like crazy and have all sorts of emissions failures.

In a sane world, The folks in the city w/smog issues should be giving up ICE before the great vast open spaces of north america should give up diesel..

The exact reason I can’t buy a diesel even though I want one!! My typical local short trips are ideal for plugin hybrid. Sadly I can’t wait any longer for a 8 passenger plugin hybrid. I know Ford is close with their really slick modular 10spd design, but I’m literally in price negotiation as I write this for a new 8pass rig. Ahh we’ll at least it gets 15-20% better mileage than the 8pass I’m replacing.. Can’t win every time.

 

[Blaise]

No body on frame. No solid (at least rear) axle. No normal N/A engine. No removable top/doors. No manual trans. No truly stripped down model. Why LED headlights and taillights? Why auto dimming and power mirrors? Automatic headlight leveling? Leather steering wheel and leather gearshift? And it still looks like a plastic concept car from 1999.

Nothing I see that is built for the long haul. Especially given JLR past 20 years of depreciation and expensive mechanical problems.

I don't have body on frame. I have fully independent suspension. An automatic transmission. HID headlamps, air suspension, etc etc.

My truck is 14 years old and I just did a 3k mile road trip with it last week in comfort. If this tech was good enough to last the last 100k+ miles, why do you think a new one won't?

I'll answer the question for you: You want a wrangler. That's fine. Go buy a wrangler. There's a market for this car and if it's not you.... that's OK.

But if your problem is with tech being a thing and cars progressing beyond 1960.... then maybe JLR isn't who has to get out of here. If JLR followed what internet complainers wanted vs what customers want, they'd end up in the same place as GM did when the GTO and SS came back - losing lots and lots of money. They didn't sell.

 

[onemanarmy]

I don't want a Wrangler. I don't want a new FCA anything.

I want Land Rover and/or Toyota to go at the Wrangler, take over that spot. The market is obviously there. JLR and Toyota have the pedigree, the lineage, the world renowned names. They make attempts, but swing and miss, and I'm not sure why? They just make more of the same, but then expect us to get excited and lap them up just because they slap the badge on it. No problem with tech. It has a place....I love my AC and power windows. But I don't need a screen, auto anything, air suspension, leather anything, custom designed integrated auto dimming and leveling LED headlights, computer programmed terrain modes, etc. That stuff is great, just not on a Defender (or Wrangler or Land cruiser, or Bronco...)

The SS and GTO were great cars, under the skin. The design was bland and they didn't advertise them. A piss poor job by GM. Had nothing to do with the names. The good used ones are commanding top tier prices now.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

[Blaise]

The SS and GTO *were* great cars! But they didn't sell! That's the issue... there needs to be a market. I don't think a stripped down, tech-lacking, solid axle Defender would sell.

I think its a bit early to call the Defender a swing and a miss given that it's not yet available to buy or test

 

[nickw]

Independent suspensions introduce so many more wear items and complexity compounded by their insistence on using air springs.

I'd like to see some data on the "much more" reliability of LED vs. regular auto bulbs, especially given the price, the money and time spent to design a vehicle specifc light assembly, and the ability of anyone with a screwdriver and $4 to change one. Sure, they can look cool and use less electricity, which has its place in certain cases. I doubt a potential 2020 Defender buyer would say no to it because it had regular taillight bulbs.

I'm fine with 'high' torque engines in vehicles meant to pull heavy loads or make quick 0-60 runs.

Hence my 'long haul' comment.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

Paging @REDROVER ....maybe you should defend the rover and IRS

IRS is used on many military vehicles, it's not necessarily weaker or inferior. It may not be ideal for rock crawling, but has many advantages. It's more simple than IFS which lasts many decades trouble free.

In general LEDs outlast std bulbs many times over....

 

[DieselRanger]

Good, I'm an avid cyclist and it's happened to me.

"For offroad use only" I am sure

A$$holes will be a$$holes. Rolling coal is for ignorant rednecks. It serves no legitimate purpose other than to create a spectacle and piss people off.

I would argue that NOx is NOT worse than greenhouse gases. The CDC classifies oxides of nitrogen as a lung irritant despite many greenies claiming it's a carcinogen and has killed millions - that's patently un-provable. Particulate matter is actually a minor concern, as it settles out within minutes.

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[Bayou Boy]

I don't want a Wrangler. I don't want a new FCA anything.

I want Land Rover and/or Toyota to go at the Wrangler, take over that spot.

That will never happen. The current Wrangler stereotypical owner is very similar to the current Harley owner. That guy will never buy a Japanese or British car. His daily driver is an American pickup truck and his wife drives a Tahoe or Expedition or similar.

 

[REDROVER]

i Personally think IFS is not bad,
Don’t forget that older Land Rover was solid axel and it has issues of hubs leaking and going bad,
Yes IFS does have more parts, but it’s also easy to change one part or 2 compared to the entire front solid axle.
I don’t think that’s deal breaker.
Look what IFS does, how much more do you need,
By the way this LR4 has 220.000 miles,
How many classic Range Rovers or discovery’s wish they made it to 110.000 miles before becoming Coca Cola cans.

 

[REDROVER]

it’s funny when ppl say there is no market for rugged SUV
actually that segment is booming,
it’s the other way around, there is no market for luxury SUVs,
Go to your nearest ford dealer and climb up on board of ford diesel truck, it will absolutely make your think Range Rover is Stone Age, and that’s just ford pick up, everyone makes luxury vehicles now, how does Land Rover stand out ?

have you been in new Lincoln Navigator?
I promise Range Rover is years behind with its tech and luxury.
It has everything, the same train management setup as Land Rover and it’s absolutely stunning inside and it’s 100 grand.
If this new defender was ultra rugged suv it would made Land Rover once again top dog, but it blends in now.
Before Land Rover was luxury brand and everyone was behind them.
Now Other makes are equal or even better.

 

[calicamper]

it’s funny when ppl say there is no market for rugged SUV
actually that segment is booming,
it’s the other way around, there is no market for luxury SUVs,
Go to your nearest ford dealer and climb up on board of ford diesel truck, it will absolutely make your think Range Rover is Stone Age, and that’s just ford pick up, everyone makes luxury vehicles now, how does Land Rover stand out ?

have you been in new Lincoln Navigator?
I promise Range Rover is years behind with its tech and luxury.
It has everything, the same train management setup as Land Rover and it’s absolutely stunning inside and it’s 100 grand.
If this new defender was ultra rugged suv it would made Land Rover once again top dog, but it blends in now.
Before Land Rover was luxury brand and everyone was behind them.
Now Other makes are equal or even better.

Exactly why after 27yrs of Toyota I’m picking up a Expedition top trim in a day or two. The thing just blows away every thing else in the big wagon segment. Its no rock crawler but I can drag a house and crawler with me if I need one lol!

 

[mpinco]

Even with the intro of the luxury Defender the financial landscape remains questionable. S&P Says Global Auto Sales To Fall 2-3% This Year, there will be "no growth" throughout 2020 and 2021. The recent JLR/BMW partnership announcements might be growing even further.

BMW should buy Jaguar Land Rover, Bernstein says
September 18, 2019 03:54 AM UPDATED 4 HOURS AGO
Anurag Kotoky
Bloomberg

"We need to talk about Jaguar Land Rover.

That's the message from Sanford C. Bernstein analysts, who say BMW should buy the British luxury brand from India's Tata Motors.

"BMW is overcapitalized and awash with cash. It has run into the limits of growth for its product range and brand," analysts including Max Warburton wrote in a research note Wednesday.

"JLR is severely challenged, both operationally and financially, but could massively lower both its fixed and variable costs under the wing of a bigger partner."

The suggestion comes as Tata Motors' losses mount, with a sales slowdown in China and Brexit adding to its woes.................."

BEV's don't serve the operational profile Land Rover needs. Unlike some at JLR who don't see fuel cells as a viable option, BMW is developing FCEV technology for the second half of the decade.

 

[Twistnshout]

I like some of it like the power and payloads, other then that it looks like a car. Pretty disappointed. IFS, air suspension (really?) no removable top, less of a utility vehicle and more a wifes car.

The brilliance with the old defender/jeep/troopy, was the utility, and how you could personalize the vehicle. That "appears" to be gone.

I think the old defender values were up with the stoppage in production....I imagine they just went up in value even more.