2020 Defender Spy Shots....

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Blaise

Well-known member

Fair and since it's your opinion, it's not wrong.

It's certainly a controversial thing to make the Defender so nice, but again, the new Defender will be more capable than the old one. Will it be more capable then a Wrangler Rubicon? Nope. Should it be? That's up for debate - I can't find a place where I'd need a Rubicon short of the actual Rubicon or a few select hardcore 4x4 trails (not roads). I'm glad they made this truck and I can personally say that we're excited to go look at one.

I can certainly see the argument for why this shoulda been the Disco5. But the price is right... so I'm good with it.
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
Um, diesels in all vehicles still outsell gasoline engines in almost every market except the US.
Not really the case anymore. Europe the diesels not only are rarely sold now but are facing bans in many major markets in non commercial applications ie passenger vehicles etc.

Other markets like India which is notoriously behind has started cracking down on them also.

The biggest issue with Diesel engines isn’t the fuel or the nature of the cycle. Its simply Diesel engine technology has seen about 1/10th the money in development vs the gasser engine technology.

If Diesel engine technology had seen the same level of research and development as modern gas engines most of us likely would be driving diesel not gas. But thats just how things are.

Will diesel fade away? No but we are going to see a period where few if any light diesel vehicles are sold. Eventually diesel technology will reach modern emissions standards and likely end up being the preferred combustion choice paired in electric hybrids.
 

nickw

Adventurer
Fair and since it's your opinion, it's not wrong.

It's certainly a controversial thing to make the Defender so nice, but again, the new Defender will be more capable than the old one. Will it be more capable then a Wrangler Rubicon? Nope. Should it be? That's up for debate - I can't find a place where I'd need a Rubicon short of the actual Rubicon or a few select hardcore 4x4 trails (not roads). I'm glad they made this truck and I can personally say that we're excited to go look at one.

I can certainly see the argument for why this shoulda been the Disco5. But the price is right... so I'm good with it.
Not to be pedantic but define "capable". The main reason a Rubicon does well on the Rubicon trail is due to oversize tires and articulation. Like for like, in "Expo" trim, with say 32/33" all terrains on both of them, no/modest lifts, loaded down with gear, there are absolutely scenarios where I can see Defender out wheeling the Jeep. Like for like it has better departure and more ground clearance. It's also got more power and several 'offroad' modes, which I don't particularly like, but do help A LOT.

Maybe I am getting old (I am!) but the thought of driving a Jeep thousands of miles across the US with big tires loaded down / maxed out weight wise on mostly roads....like everybody does, doesn't sound like fun. Doing the same in a Defender, flip a switch to lower it, handles reasonably well, much sportier, much more power, then flip to offroad mode to do some modest wheeling sounds like a much better time. In that scenario I'd argue the Defender is much more capable....

Not arguing WITH.....more agreeing with you :)
 
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Todd n Natalie

OverCamper
I've driven mine in -20F conditions for days, never had any problem. It's not the cold, it's the salt and corrosion of fittings like brass valves. Land Rover addressed this specific issue in development for the L494 RRS and L462 Discovery.

I've also seen a lot of broken coil spring and leaf spring bits that rusted through and fell off, leaving jeeps sitting down a corner or a whole end.
Our city only uses salt on two roadways in winter. Rust is not an issue where I live.
 

mpinco

Expedition Leader
.......Maybe I am getting old (I am!) but the thought of driving a Jeep thousands of miles across the US with big tires loaded down / maxed out weight wise on mostly roads....like everybody does, doesn't sound like fun. ..........

Many of the tourist 'Jeeps' in Colorado make the trip on a trailer behind a motorhome. In fact I would say 90%+ of the motorhome towed vehicles are Jeeps. That thousand mile trip is done in the comfort of a class A.
 

nickw

Adventurer
Many of the tourist 'Jeeps' in Colorado make the trip on a trailer behind a motorhome. In fact I would say 90%+ of the motorhome towed vehicles are Jeeps. That thousand mile trip is done in the comfort of a class A.
The ultimate expedition vehicle, a class A motorhome....

Que the Jeep guys that drives to all his offroad events, 3, 2, 1....
 

REDROVER

Explorer
Nobody thinks the old defender was capable or dependable BUT it was simple to repair and it was survivable.
This new thing is 200% not gonna be be simple and survivable,
Simplicity is beautiful in anything.
Andvwhats up with man now days? You guys lost your balls? Everything is about wife’s liking or her comfort.

My gf drives some kind of new Cadillac suv, perfect she likes it, I drive an H1 I am not gonna change my way of living or what I love just because she may not like it.
 

LR4TQ

New member
Nobody thinks the old defender was capable or dependable BUT it was simple to repair and it was survivable.
This new thing is 200% not gonna be be simple and survivable,
Simplicity is beautiful in anything.
Andvwhats up with man now days? You guys lost your balls? Everything is about wife’s liking or her comfort.

My gf drives some kind of new Cadillac suv, perfect she likes it, I drive an H1 I am not gonna change my way of living or what I love just because she may not like it.

Keyword here is GF and not wife...
 

mklucas

New member
Personally, I'm liking what I see in the new Defender... my biggest gripe (as it is entirely untested by the public at this point), would be the lack of diesel offering in the US market... and yes, given the published GCW/tow capacity ratings, that diesel needs to be more in the neighborhood of 450 lb ft of torque.

My last 5 vehicles have all been diesel, perhaps I'm biased but justifiably so IMHO. While I agree small displacement turbos and mild hybrids are beginning to blur the lines between diesel and gas, there is still no substitute for a diesel in terms of low end power and range/mpg. To make my point, I did a bit of digging. Since the EcoBoost was mentioned as an example of a [superior to diesel] small displacement turbo, I dug into the Ford EB vs baby (3.0?) Powerstroke to do my best to compare apples to apples... The difference is significant - dyno tested stock at the rear wheel: 280 lb ft @ 2000 rpm for the diesel vs 200 lb ft @ 2000 rpm for the ecoboost. As far as mpg across the two: the baby diesel bests the ecoboost by 100 (towing) -170+ miles of range... that's the difference between needing to fill up every 200 miles vs every 300 miles when significantly loading the engine. Significant and important to me and how I use my vehicles.

My real world example of the benefits of low end power... towing my buddies old Shasta camper into Kane Creek trail (Moab area), with two dirt bikes in the bed of my Cummins 2500 and having a hidden campsite all to ourselves right off the trail. After climbing back out of there while hauling a trailer, crawling over rocks on a steep incline with zero tire slip, my buddy who is a diehard Toyota guy, said, "no way we coulda done that in my Tacoma." (granted that's not a small displacement turbo gasser)

Fast forward about 5 years and I no longer need to haul boats and horses, I'm in an EcoDiesel WK2, sufficient to haul my 12' enclosed trailer with 2 motorcycles and gear around the Rockies... Same buddy, always giving me crap that it's a soccer mom car is jealous I'm getting 13mpg towing with 275/55R20 AT's (the biggest that will fit my WK2 w/o mods). My buddy remarked he's lucky to get that driving Telluride to Denver w/o a trailer in his latest model TRD Pro Tacoma with aftermarket tires and ARB bumper... Meanwhile, I'm still driving down "Jeep" trails and finding campsites like this one from last month...


IMG_4909.jpg

Outside of regular maintenance (oil change, fuel filter change, brake pads, etc.), I've had zero reliability issues with my past 4 Cummins and my current EcoDiesel - but yes, modern EPA/CARB stuff has complicated matters. I went from a 2004.5 Cummins to a new 2010 Cummins and then back to a used 2006 Cummins because of the ULSD/DEF stuff absolutely killed the mpg (about 17 mpg empty highway on the 2010 back to 22 mpg empty on the 2006). And now with the EcoDiesel and the "Approved Emissions Modification" I've noticed my mpg suffer yet again. Of course there are always examples of this one or that one failing - doesn't mean they are all unreliable. I towed my buddies wakeboard boat to the lake last weekend (comfortably at 70 mph when conditions permitted), because... His F150 EcoBoost had been at the dealership for 2 weeks.

And if diesels are (should/will be) going the way of the dodo bird, then why is the entire domestic 1/2 ton truck segment, many SUV's and Jeep (hopefully) offering them now/recently? It's a good thing to have options and no two overlanders are alike.

Back to the Defender - there's the old vs new argument, but time hasn't stood still for me. I drove to Alaska when I was 20 in a 1974 VW bus; took the Cassiar Highway (that was long before it was paved) and we survived (minus a broken rear shock we had to wait a week for in Whitehorse), and up to Manly Hot Springs where I had to change a tire. Today, I can afford a $70-80k car, and because of that I also appreciate and like to have AC seats and IFS with air suspension. If I were to drive to AK again I'd happily do it in a new Defender, but I'd have to go out of my way to find some roads the Defender couldn't handle and in the meantime I'll lower the suspension to save some fuel and be comfortable.
 

Todd n Natalie

OverCamper
Then modern air suspension shouldn't be a problem either. BTW, Land Rovers have an "access height" where they lower to the bump stops for ease of entry and exit.
I see modern air suspended vehicles having issues all winter long... My co-works vehicles has had issues 3 of the 4 winters he's owned it.

I am aware several vehicles lower to ease egress / entry. I'm talking about vehicles in motion.

I personally wouldn't buy a vehicle with air suspension.
 

L57

Member
See a YouTube 4K Feature Film, The New Land Rover Defender - A Necessary Evolution? Apologize if this is a repeat. Don’t know how to attach it. Exciting to ride with Ives in his Camel Trophy. Movie is long but filled.
 

ChasingOurTrunks

Well-known member
Our city only uses salt on two roadways in winter. Rust is not an issue where I live.

Only mentioning this so that a fellow Edmontonian can know and can get your vehicles protected:


And:


I don’t at all disagree with your statement on Airbags though — I’ve seen a more than a few fail in this environment. I will say that I’ve not heard of a LR failure here, but I don’t have friends with LRs; most of the failures have been in trucks from the Big 3, both aftermarket and factory.

I am hopeful that “Airbag Deletes” will be easy with the new Defender, if they cannot be had from the factory that way in North America (which is what it looks like). I’m very hesitant around airbags in an off road vehicle in Canada’s bush, as its one more component I need to bring spares for (not a deal breaker, but a consideration for sure). But I’m also happy to be proven wrong!
 
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