2020 Defender Spy Shots....

[L57]

I have owned a Defender 1994 NAS and a Discovery 1996 Trek. And I have been over Black Bear Pass in two Land Rovers (and many adventures). Land Rover has a character different than my Jeeps and Toyotas. I love them all but Land Rover always had something special, I think they call it 'Joie de Vive.' I respect all the debate I am reading. I am grateful we have something to debate and it is not going to be left to time and rust.

 

[JackW]

I've owned almost every generation of Land Rover - from a Series 1 80", multiple Series II Land Rovers in 109" and 88" wheelbases, 5 Range Rover Classics, a Discovery 1, an LR3 and a Discovery 5. I've been driving them since I got my first one in 1972 and I've owned a lot of other cars from pickup trucks to Porches, from Volkswagens to Cadillacs and a crap load of BMW's and other Eurotrash. I've still got two of my Series IIA's, a Defender 90 Tdi, a new Miata 30AE and a Discovery 5. I want to be able to comfortably drive from Atlanta to the western US and then go to places like the North Rim, the Alaskan Highway, the trails around SW Colorado, Moab, the Backcountry Discovery Routes and the Trans Am Trail. I'm not planning on doing the Rubicon (although if I did it would probably be in the Series IIA 88" after towing it out there on a trailer).

The new Defender looks like it addresses some of the shortcomings of the D5 - although there aren't that many that are really serious - more personal taste than anything else. I like the rear mounted spare, a rear door instead of a hatch, shorter overhangs, and more boxy - boxy is good.
Small styling goofs like the front lights and grill - if they are what we think - I can live with as long as I get the six cylinder diesel, locking diffs, transfer case and heavy duty suspension we've been promised. I'll expect it to be as comfortable a road car as my LR3, D5 and old Range Rovers and better than the LR3 off road. I'm not expecting a return to the slow, noisy, ill handling beast that my D90 is - although I'm still perfectly happy driving the D-90 to an event that is up to 12 hours away. We use the D5 diesel as our everyday driver- a role it does a remarkably good job at. Its a great tow vehicle and road car. The visibility from the drivers seat is good and it gets over 600 miles on a tank of fuel on a road trip. Its been reliable, economical and comfortable - everything a modern car is supposed to be. If the Defender can fulfill all these roles, be more capable off road and look better than the Discovery 5 I think the Rover enthusaists will be winners. My guess is that it will be about $4-5000 less than the Discovery but hopefully the option list will include a lot of really neat stuff to maximize its capabilities. Hopefully the aftermarket will support the new truck and we will be able to personalize it to make it look the way we expect a Defender to appear.

This link to video comparing the latest Land Cruiser with crawl control to the new G-wagen with traction control and Jeep Wrangler with lockers is illuminating - the Land Cruiser system seems a little crude compared to Land Rover's Terrain control and it will be real interesting to see how the new Defender performs by comparison. The G-wagen may turn out to be its stiffest competition.

Watch A Jeep Wrangler Lose An Off-Road Comparison To A Mercedes G-Class And Toyota Land Cruiser

 

[DieselRanger]

I've seen them some off-road, admittedly very, very little- because you so rarely every see one off-road and I think that says something about them.

Yes, they're a low-volume automobile from a low-volume manufacturer so there are fewer of them out there, period. I see far more mall-crawler Wranglers that never see dirt than I see on the trails too.

"Wranglers aren't rock crawlers until they get thousands of dollars in modifications"....huh? Are you familiar with the Wrangler Rubicon?- it'll do anything on it's namesake trail near Lake Tahoe and walk up almost any incline in Moab right off the show room floor and that's before you put the 35s on it that can fit straight from the factory.

They run bone-stock D5's all over Moab - and Range Rovers too. With street tires.

 

[TexasTJ]

Look guys D-90, 110 and TJ’s are equally as Sexy. Anything designed after 2000 though is trash! Including my LR3. They can do the job done get me wrong, maybe even better that there predecessor, but it doesn’t make them better 4x4’s. Soul and passion are a big part of the appeal. I miss me loud leaky old TJ almost everyday and would be just as happy if not more driving it from Texas to Wyoming as I am in my LR3. Why because of the Soul. And from everything I’ve seen that’s what the new Defender will lack. And yes I have driven a 90 from Maine to Austin for a friend. It was AWESOME! ?

 

[blackangie]

Every vehicle on the market gets infotainment complaints. They all suck, until they get Android Auto or Apple CarPlay. I don't even know why automakers bother with their own any more. Since my infotainment got upgraded with Android Auto, I don't even use the native infotainment any more, and it's perfect.

I drive a 2017 D5 HSE Td6. It regularly goes everywhere highly modified Wranglers and JGCs go in the Colorado Rockies, *and* it's a pleasurable experience getting to the trailhead as well. Two corners in the air - no wheelspin, no problem; 30" deep creek crossings like a rain puddle. All I've done to it is put AT's on it. Next on the list are rock sliders, and some 18" Compomotives so I can get a little more sidewall. Eventually maybe some extra lights and a winch, we'll see. Granted, I'm not running Poughkeepsie Gulch, but you're not running it with a bone-stock Wrangler either. Nobody is, and the Discovery was never a rock crawler anyway. Wranglers aren't even rock crawlers until they get thousands of dollars in modifications.

It's okay, I know they're rare and you've never seen one, much less driven one, so your skepticism can be excused, Maybe you think that videos of bone-stock Range Rover Sports going over Black Bear Pass or D5's on Poison Spider Mesa are produced by the same people who faked the moon landing, but trust me, they'll do 90%+ what a Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited with $15,000+ worth of mods will do, and 100% of what an unmodified one will do and are a nicer place to do it in. The Defender won't be any different.

But you don't care, because you'll never buy one no matter how good they are. You're a Jeep guy, and that's OK.

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Agreed, we have a new JLR vehicle both the infotainment system and android auto works a treat, as does everything else.

New Landrovers are also extremely capable, many people dont even know A D5 or a RRVogue can do 900mm of water crossing right out of the factory with no snorkel. Imo they are the best do anything 4x4s.
New defender will be real dual purpose, proper offroader, proper onroader and hopefully still look great (looks based of latest vid defender owner reactions and my opinion looking at all leaks and spyshots combined).
Engineering and delivering a true dual purpose vehicle in thus modern world and keeping most happy is very very hard to achieve as is seen with Jeeps safety and gwagons vegemite looks.

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[blackangie]

Might be the best rendering I’ve seen yet and makes it look better that the Bond leak. View attachment 535958

Not bad work, snorkels wrong, ladder can't be there, wheels are a little to small, but agree looks good, imo the real thing will look better with all its factory accessories, i hope they have one all modded at Frankfurt.

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[blackangie]

So I'm not going to make the assumptions about you that you make about me- I've had numerous experiences with LRs; actually test drove a Discovery last weekend because I'm interested. I've seen them some off-road, admittedly very, very little- because you so rarely every see one off-road and I think that says something about them.

"Wranglers aren't rock crawlers until they get thousands of dollars in modifications"....huh? Are you familiar with the Wrangler Rubicon?- it'll do anything on it's namesake trail near Lake Tahoe and walk up almost any incline in Moab right off the show room floor and that's before you put the 35s on it that can fit straight from the factory.

Still have to fit 35s with the LRs just drive em out, they are good to go.

All jokes aside and back to subject, apparently you can choose muddies or All terrain 32s right from the factory for the new defender.


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[blackangie]

The back-and-forth is entertaining! As for the Defender we will know if it was a success in ............. 2 years. Why 2 years? Because there will be an initial surge that will then level off to the real desirability/demand/sustainability of a vehicle. It takes at least 2 years to build a reputation, good or bad. That's fine. We can all wait.

True however LR have been improving their reputation consistently in the last decade + especially regarding quality, they are on record as saying reliability rep must be proved over time. If you look at the rep in states its improved massively over last 10 years according to problems per 100 vehicles in jd power (its now down to infotainment which is prob fixed with android auto/apple carplay + sota all avail now) And in the UK where toyota actually sell the prado(LC) and diesels, LR are on par with Yota.

Im seeing the new defender again improving on the above with many components being strengthened (according to LR) and improved from already tried and tested gear and overall durability and reliability of the car increased.

Agree will be interesting to see after a few years how's she going and I'm particularly looking forward to the head to heads that landrover have been openly confident about with the competition whomever they may be, prado, cruiser, jeep, gwagon, patrol etc?

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[Christian P.]

All right I know we are all getting a little bit too excited by the new Defender...I cleaned up some postings, please let's keep it civilized.

 

[blackangie]

Getting back on topic, spotted in Tokyo, not sure if this ones been posted yet.

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[68camaro]

True however LR have been improving their reputation consistently in the last decade + especially regarding quality, they are on record as saying reliability rep must be proved over time. If you look at the rep in states its improved massively over last 10 years according to problems per 100 vehicles in jd power (its now down to infotainment which is prob fixed with android auto/apple carplay + sota all avail now) And in the UK where toyota actually sell the prado(LC) and diesels, LR are on par with Yota.

Im seeing the new defender again improving on the above with many components being strengthened (according to LR) and improved from already tried and tested gear and overall durability and reliability of the car increased.

I am following this thread with great interest. My big issues with LR is guality/main. As I keep vehicles for very long time.

In 2013 I was at dealer and agreed to buy RR Sport and was asked to wait for business manager to finish up so I could get my paperwork done. While waiting I sat in my 2004 jeep GC with almost 200k miles and started to think about the Sports maint. issues and since we already had a 2012 528i, I really asked if I wanted two expensive to maintain vehicles at same time.

To get to the chase, I canceled sale, called up Jeep dealer and asked if they had GC Overland in stock, I literally stopped by and picked it up on way home. We gave 2004 GC to son who is still using it.

My 2014 Jeep GC (bought in Sept. 2013) now has 174k miles and going strong, with factory lifetime warranty it should last another 5+ years.

So my long winded question is will the defender come with longer than 3 yr warranty, and do you realistically expect these to be relatively easy to maintain, as opposed to reputation of older models?

 

[Victory_Overland]

I would like to get my hands on a first year but the more I think about it, the likelihood is that second and third year will be better vehicles with potentially more options and might settle the price tag down a tad on a commercial-ish model in the US. I still believe the price tag is going to start with a "6" on any US fully equipped (locked/diesel) etc. but I am fully excited to be wrong on this if they make it cheap to sell a ton of them and level out some competition.

 

[mpinco]

........So my long winded question is will the defender come with longer than 3 yr warranty, and do you realistically expect these to be relatively easy to maintain, as opposed to reputation of older models?

We will have to wait on the release to see the warranty. There is extended warranties but those are getting expensive. That said, I expect LR's reliability to improve but so will everyone else. Will it be maintainable by an owner? Well I expect all manufacturers to decline in that area as more and more technology invades the vehicle. Will you be able to wash the new Defender out with a hose? Those days are over. In the bigger picture I expect people to hold on to the older vehicles longer and longer. Good for the parts industry.

 

[blackangie]

I am following this thread with great interest. My big issues with LR is guality/main. As I keep vehicles for very long time.

In 2013 I was at dealer and agreed to buy RR Sport and was asked to wait for business manager to finish up so I could get my paperwork done. While waiting I sat in my 2004 jeep GC with almost 200k miles and started to think about the Sports maint. issues and since we already had a 2012 528i, I really asked if I wanted two expensive to maintain vehicles at same time.

To get to the chase, I canceled sale, called up Jeep dealer and asked if they had GC Overland in stock, I literally stopped by and picked it up on way home. We gave 2004 GC to son who is still using it.

My 2014 Jeep GC (bought in Sept. 2013) now has 174k miles and going strong, with factory lifetime warranty it should last another 5+ years.

So my long winded question is will the defender come with longer than 3 yr warranty, and do you realistically expect these to be relatively easy to maintain, as opposed to reputation of older models?

We recently bought a new JLR product came with the big 555, 5 years warranty, 5 years servicing, 5 years roadside assist/towing etc.
If the defender came with 3 I would get extra 2 one way or another.

Reliability has come a long way, i dont expect anything major in 5 years due the engineering and testing today, and if there is it will be covered.

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[DieselRanger]

I am following this thread with great interest. My big issues with LR is guality/main. As I keep vehicles for very long time.

In 2013 I was at dealer and agreed to buy RR Sport and was asked to wait for business manager to finish up so I could get my paperwork done. While waiting I sat in my 2004 jeep GC with almost 200k miles and started to think about the Sports maint. issues and since we already had a 2012 528i, I really asked if I wanted two expensive to maintain vehicles at same time.

To get to the chase, I canceled sale, called up Jeep dealer and asked if they had GC Overland in stock, I literally stopped by and picked it up on way home. We gave 2004 GC to son who is still using it.

My 2014 Jeep GC (bought in Sept. 2013) now has 174k miles and going strong, with factory lifetime warranty it should last another 5+ years.

So my long winded question is will the defender come with longer than 3 yr warranty, and do you realistically expect these to be relatively easy to maintain, as opposed to reputation of older models?

I'll say this about the mechanicals. I spent 2 years researching a replacement for my 2010 Touareg TDI expecting a some point there would be a buyback due to Dieselgate, and there was. In that time I spent a lot of time in Grand Cherokees, I spent a lot of time in Ford trucks including the Raptor, and I spent a lot of time in the Range Rover Sport, and in the 4Runner and Taco.

I spent a lot of time on enthusiast forums for all of these, very carefully researching what kind and and how often certain serious problems came up. As mentioned, infotainment sucks all around - I believe people just want their infotainment to work like their smartphones do, which is largely reliably.

Of all of these, I found Ford trucks, RRS (post 2014 NAS spec), and 4Runners seemed to be the best by far - roughly in order. JGCs were atrocious in terms of "big" problems that would leave you stranded - diff failures due to debris left in at the factory, oil leaks, trans failures - and that was aside from build quality issues like misaligned tailgates (in some cases signaling frame issues) and rippling dash surfaces.

A Raptor doesn't fit in my garage, and you can't really enjoy them unless you live in the desert Southwest, but that was my #2. 4Runners are just so outdated for what you get - TRD Pros going for over $45K lacking any sort of real improvement over the previous 5 years at the time.

The RRS surpassed Acura, Audi, and other stalwarts in 3-year dependability - the fact that the RRS beat a Honda product is telling.

When I heard the D5 would share platform and mechanicals with the RRS but have better off road geometry, I couldn't pass it up, especially after I got $30,000 from Volkswagen for my 7-year old 100K mile plus Touareg. A test drive in one of the press cars on tour at my dealership sealed the deal.

I took delivery in August 2017 in time to take it deep into the Wyoming backcountry for the total eclipse basically fresh off the lot. Not a soul in sight, about a half mile from the nearest road. It's been all smiles since then, with 30,000 miles on the clock. Furthermore, the Td6 engine is a joint project between Ford and Pugeot - and it now appears in the F150 diesel with some mods for heavy-duty towing. Ford wouldn't select that engine unless it could go the distance.

I don't regret my choice at all. Tata put the money where JLR needed it - into development and testing. I have no reason to expect the Defender won't be just as good.