2020 Defender Spy Shots....

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DieselRanger

Well-known member
I’ve defended the new Defender, but IMO cancelling the pickup version is a huge mistake, and building the 130 with the same wheelbase as the 110 is an even bigger one.

A 130” wheelbase is ideal to me for an all around rig. I had a Suburban with the same wheelbase, despite being 900 lbs lighter it tows MUCH better (more stable, less sway) than my LR3 (113”) on the interstate. It’s the same size as a regular cab longbed pickup, so it’s not difficult to park anywhere but the most cramped places, allows tons of room inside even with a 3rd row, and has the best compromise of approach, departure, breakover angles.

Putting 8,000 lbs behind a short wheelbase (119” on the 110) rig isn’t wise, and the biggest complaint about the Gladiator pickup is the wheelbase is too long for off-road use at 137”

They might be hard to drive according to LR testers, but plenty of soccer moms manage rigs that size daily. I’ll bet I see 100 or more Suburban/Yukon XL/Escalade ESV’s driving around today. They are what people with 3 kids and a decent income buy.

Similarly, 4 door mini bed (under 6’) 1/2 ton luxury pickups are what it seems 75% of the guys in this town drive, even if they live in a subdivision and don’t hunt or own tools. People are paying $65k for F-150 platinums and GMC Denali’s, which is right where the Defender pickup would be.

It seems they literally don’t open their eyes and look around at what’s selling like mad.
$65k is maybe where a 130 pickup would start, but they'd get past $100k very quickly, and then they cannibalize sales from the full-fat Range Rover and the upcoming J-Pace, or worse - people choose the more luxurious and comfortable FFRR or sportier J-Pace for the money.

Americans who love their Redneck Range Rover F250s with $25,000 aftermarket interiors and lifts and all that want American steel, locomotive diesel sounds or rumbling V-8's. They're not going to buy a Landie pickup in significant numbers, and aside from Oz and maybe SA, there aren't many places to sell a vehicle that large - and in those places, they truly are utility vehicles and thus not Land Rover's market. The Defender and the platform under it are world vehicles, which for a small automaker like JLR it has to be.

We may see a 130 SUV as planned but I doubt we'll see a pickup.


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JeepColorado

Well-known member

This article basically says the Defender is for upper middle class people who wish they could afford a G-Wagon. That's pretty funny! The more I look at the Defender I think it's a competitor to the Toyota Land Cruiser 200, without the reliability of Toyota, but with a lot more refinement- although that will change in a couple of years once Toyota remakes the LC 200. It's on par with an Infinity QX80, but more off-road capable. On the more practical side you can get a Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit that would be just as capable and virtually as nice on the inside for a lot less money.
 

gatorgrizz27

Active member
$65k is maybe where a 130 pickup would start, but they'd get past $100k very quickly, and then they cannibalize sales from the full-fat Range Rover and the upcoming J-Pace, or worse - people choose the more luxurious and comfortable FFRR or sportier J-Pace for the money.

Americans who love their Redneck Range Rover F250s with $25,000 aftermarket interiors and lifts and all that want American steel, locomotive diesel sounds or rumbling V-8's. They're not going to buy a Landie pickup in significant numbers, and aside from Oz and maybe SA, there aren't many places to sell a vehicle that large - and in those places, they truly are utility vehicles and thus not Land Rover's market. The Defender and the platform under it are world vehicles, which for a small automaker like JLR it has to be.

We may see a 130 SUV as planned but I doubt we'll see a pickup.


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I don’t see any reason a Defender 130 pickup would need to cost more than the 110, it’s probably less material. I agree with you that the 3/4 ton heavy duty diesel customers probably wouldn’t buy one, but that’s not the market I’m talking about.

The vast majority of pickup buyers these days (work trucks excluded) seem to want a luxury vehicle that drives like a car. I was just about to say that I’d bet money the F-150 will have IRS soon, and found this article.


The blind, multi-generational brand loyalty doesn’t seems to be nearly as prevalent as it was, and just about everyone wants a “Defender”, so they have a legitimate shot at customers who have never considered the brand in the past.

Smaller displacement turbocharged engines are the way things are going, and people seem to be fine so long as it has the gimmicks they desire.

I also disagree with it taking RR sales, around here it’s primarily men that drive the pickups, except for horses people, and women that drive Range Rovers. They are missing the significant market that buys larger SUV’s due to 3-4 kids, dogs, and other stuff. A 3rd row is irrelevant if you can’t carry anything but a kid’s backpack.
 
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Bayou Boy

Adventurer
Dude, are you ok?

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Just trying to point out how ridiculous some of the comments in this thread are.

Who cares if it will make it across Africa? Most people just want to know that it will take the kids back and forth from school without breaking.
 

SSG

Member
Give me a new Defender 130, (not a pickup version up but a bigger 110 version), with a diesel here in the USA, with nicely equipped off-road extras, for about $70K and I will buy it!!!
 

mpinco

Expedition Leader
Where are they taking Defender now that the pickup has been cancelled?

Report: The Land Rover Defender Sport Is Coming… In 2026

".......According to a new report from Car, the Defender Sport won’t debut until 2026. Codenamed L860, the Defender Sport is will further move the model into the luxury arena. While it will still sport Land Rover’s famous off-road prowess, the Defender Sport will be an off-road vehicle for the well-to-do. ........."

Range Rover / Range Rover Sport
Discovery / Discovery Sport (McGovern said that with the Defender released this model can now move to where they envision the new Discovery to be)
Defender / Defender Sport
 

nickw

Adventurer
Judging by the number of Toyota guys in here slinging mud (I thought they h8mud), seems lots are LR curious?

Unlike the LCs, these are cheaper and offer a lower utilitarian spec with vinyl floors, stuff the Toyota guys have been asking for. Better payload and towing too along with a rear mounted spare.

If Toyota offered something like this the LC guys would go bonkers. This seems like the better LC than the real one...this is coming from a reformed cruiser head.
 

onemanarmy

Explorer
Judging by the number of Toyota guys in here slinging mud (I thought they h8mud), seems lots are LR curious?

Unlike the LCs, these are cheaper and offer a lower utilitarian spec with vinyl floors, stuff the Toyota guys have been asking for. Better payload and towing too along with a rear mounted spare.

If Toyota offered something like this the LC guys would go bonkers. This seems like the better LC than the real one...this is coming from a reformed cruiser head.
When JLR can prove, over a number of years, that they can make a reliable platform that doesn't depreciate off a cliff, then the LC guys may notice.

Yes, sadly, Toyota has crashed and burned with the LC nameplate. Seems to be a trend with most automakers. I hope one day they can bring back the glory.
 

mpinco

Expedition Leader
For me the most revealing aspect of the release were the 85 ECU's and $12K price adder for the P400 MHEV engine/powertrain.

Why are they moving the entire product line upscale into very expensive territory? Look no further than the $12K adder for the P400 MHEV. Future products will be loaded with ECU's running hybrid/EV drivetrains. Those are expensive and require extensive use of control systems. Wouldn't be surprised to see the D6 running hybrid/EV and sporting even more ECU's slot in at $100K. The Defender will follow in those footsteps.
 
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onemanarmy

Explorer
Same with the LC...JLR already has a handful of IFS/IRS luxo soft roaders.....why more of the same?

Just make the Defender the rugged offroader...and if you want luxury, JLR has plenty of options for your...Range Rover, RR Sport, LR4/5, Discovery, Discovery Sport (******?), whatever

For the Defender: Solid rear axle, Normally aspirated 4 and 6 cyl, AC and power windows/locks as the only luxuries. Manual control of everything. No need for screens or programmed terrain response. Sliders and knobs for air con and radio. No air suspension. Slider side cargo windows. Cloth seats and cheap flooring. Back away from the 1999 concept car styling. Maybe even removable top and doors?!
 

Bobzdar

Observer
This article basically says the Defender is for upper middle class people who wish they could afford a G-Wagon. That's pretty funny! The more I look at the Defender I think it's a competitor to the Toyota Land Cruiser 200, without the reliability of Toyota, but with a lot more refinement- although that will change in a couple of years once Toyota remakes the LC 200. It's on par with an Infinity QX80, but more off-road capable. On the more practical side you can get a Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit that would be just as capable and virtually as nice on the inside for a lot less money.
Off-road capability might be similar, but it won't have anywhere near the towing or payload. GC's are nice, though, especially the trailhawk with air suspension. You can get one loaded for about the starting price of a Defender (which comes pretty well outfitted, to be fair).
 

uzj100

Adventurer
Time will tell. I do not fit the ICP for this platform. I am way to hard on vehicles for something like this new defender or JL or any new anything. Can't have the uncertainty in how we use the vehicles. In 5 years, I will check back and see what happened.
;<)
 
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