2020 Defender Spy Shots....

[blackangie]

One aspect that is eating away at the attractiveness of newer vehicles is complexity. While reliability of the newer models has improved, they are also much more complex and in reality not field repairable. From that perspective the Defender and D1 are much more attractive for the off-road / long term owner crowd. Simply from that perspective values of Defender/D1's will be maintained. On the flipside I would think depreciation for newer vehicles will accelerate as the quantity and cost of computer based subsystems becomes an increased factor and batteries become more prevalent. I suspect the new Defender may fall into that category. The LR4/new Discovery would also fall under that higher depreciation category.

Interesting point, what seems to be the general consensus on the AU forum with newer rovers, is whilst they may be harder to fix in the field, or not(with aftermarket scan tools) . They dont brake down or fail as much. So overall reliability and dependability is greater.
I have both old and new.

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[blackangie]

No JD powers is accurate

I’ve posted this before..this is the US version of the survey..

Agreed.

If you look over the past 15-20 years the problems per 100 vehicles for LR has halved in the states.

2005 = 395 problems per 100 vehicles after 3 years of ownership during 12 months (4 problems in a year)

2019 = 221 problems per 100 vehicles after 3 years of ownership during 12 months (2 problems in a year reported to be mainly infotainment)

So looking at this their dependability has improved 180% over 14 years up to 2016 in the US if my calc are correct.

Then you look at the UK one were Toyota sell diesels and is a more accurate depiction of the market, it paints a very different picture, note the news articles posted above re: yota in AU.

Toyota 134 problems per 100 vehicles
Landrover 142 problems per 100 vehicles.

This is incredible really considering how much more vehicle you get for your money in the LR range.

I see LR and other brands winning back a fair bit of ground with the new defender, especially with Toyota just pulling the pin on LC200 petrols in AU.

Interesting times.

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[blackangie]

Apparently we get a another vid drop and tease today 7th according to the leaked timeline already posted, post it up when ya spot it guys!

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[blackangie]

Spoke too soon, its up already!

NEW LAND ROVER DEFENDER EXPEDITION 001 10/09/19 | Land Rover International Homepage

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[rlynch356]

So by your reasoning even though they place 2nd to last and 4th to last they are good.
Since it’s a comparison survey the industry has gotten better as a whole, which is good... so the new products will be better than that..

Got it...

just trying to follow the lemons into lemonade train of thought.

We can all wait till it launches, then inspect for ourselves. I don’t think this drawn out marketing plan has worked very effectively for them. The hype has mostly been a thud, when it is basically a second gen DC100 crossover.

 

[blackangie]

So by your reasoning even though they place 2nd to last and 4th to last they are good.
Since it’s a comparison survey the industry has gotten better as a whole, which is good... so the new products will be better than that..

Got it...

Nailed it

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[DieselRanger]

One aspect that is eating away at the attractiveness of newer vehicles is complexity. While reliability of the newer models has improved, they are also much more complex and in reality not field repairable. From that perspective the Defender and D1 are much more attractive for the off-road / long term owner crowd. Simply from that perspective values of Defender/D1's will be maintained. On the flipside I would think depreciation for newer vehicles will accelerate as the quantity and cost of computer based subsystems becomes an increased factor and batteries become more prevalent. I suspect the new Defender may fall into that category. The LR4/new Discovery would also fall under that higher depreciation category.

The old ones needed to be field repairable because the Lucas electronics magic smoke tubes kept springing leaks. If you build a more reliable vehicle with more durable alloys in critical parts and electronics backed up by hundreds of thousands of real-world test miles up to and exceeding the envelope of performance in conditions that fewer than 90% of the vehicles that will be on the road will ever see, maybe they don't need to be field repairable for the same things that broke on those old models. They'll just get you home, time after time, and you can have the infotainment reflashed when it's convenient for you.

If you want something that is like the old jeeps and Landies, buy a Mahindra Roxor at a fraction of the price. But you'll have to tow it to the trailhead because they're not street legal in the US.

 

[blackangie]

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[DieselRanger]

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Looks like a 110.

 

[Al Blue4.6l]

I assume it's just a black roof, but if it's a soft top I would be excited

 

[givemethewillys]

I may be mistaken, but aren't the jd power "initial quality" awards based on some survey they send out to a handful (something like 60k) of people and then scored on the amount of problems they had in the first 3 years? These "surveys" always seemed bogus to me. People have to care enough to send back the surveys for one. The "real Chevy commercials" come to mind when I think of all of these awards.

As far as the defender goes, I'm not a fan of what I've seen this far. Kia soul meets Ford flex. I was excited about the potential for a 130 model, but of course land rover doesn't think it's worth competing with the jeep gladiator.

 

[blackangie]

Heres some of my fav screenshots from 1080p

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[catmann]

First hint at the uncamouflaged taillights - looks interesting.

 

[DorB]

Nailed it
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So now you agree that LR continue to leg behind regarding quality and relatability?


Nadia comaneci should have taken lessons from you..



Slowly..

 

[blackangie]

So now you agree that LR continue to leg behind regarding quality and relatability?


Nadia comaneci should have taken lessons from you..



Slowly..

No, I agree with what was stated above not your twisted comments (however maybe i agree with your relatability bit )wow you cant even agree with someone with out getting hassled , i stand by all previous facts posted and my comments agreeing as posted, once again if you have something to add content wise or opinion wise go ahead, however if you want to get personal this is not the place for you.

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