2020 Defender Spy Shots....

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getlost4x4

Expedition Leader
This is probably the best marketing campaign ever. They have millions of people speculating about it. Letting out little bits of info, little bits of pictures, the slowest reveal of a vehicle ever. Testing it in the wild. This will either save Land Rover or utterly destroy them. Depending on what is revealed when all the cladding comes off.

I'm willing to bet, it'll look nothing like the test mules and more like a real defender.
 

blackangie

Well-known member
Auto Bild has done an artist impression pretty good effort in my opinion based off the DC 100(last pic)



Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
 

DieselRanger

Well-known member
- 25 years after the first Discovery the D5 is selling at 6800 per year, The D3 at 8000 per year at the same time in the life cycle, the D2 at 20,000 per year and the D1 at 15,000 per year, North American market.
US sales of the D5 - not even all of North America - were at 9,800 in 2018. Three years after introduction of the LR3 in 2004, sales crashed from a high of around 20,000 per year in the US to under 5,000. They barely recovered when the LR4 went on sale. The D5 sold more in 2018 than the LR4 ever did until its very last year when JLR had fire sales to dump them.


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mpinco

Expedition Leader
US sales of the D5 - not even all of North America - were at 9,800 in 2018. Three years after introduction of the LR3 in 2004, sales crashed from a high of around 20,000 per year in the US to under 5,000. They barely recovered when the LR4 went on sale. The D5 sold more in 2018 than the LR4 ever did until its very last year when JLR had fire sales to dump them.
I was referring to same time in life cycle as the comparison. Sales crashed during the economic recession of 2008 that began in 2007. Are you surprised? They slowly recovered which was more of an observation on the state of the US and global economy than the LR3/4. For the last 4 months D5 sales have been at 548 to 597 per month. They were higher in the Feb and Mar when LR was under severe financial stress, heavily advertising and marking down product. I don't recall any other timeframe where I saw more LR commercials. That was a red flag for me. If I was in the market for a D5 that would have been the time to strike. At current quarterly D5 sales volumes they are moving roughly 6,800 per year for the US. As your chart shows the D1/D2 sold at 17,000 to 20,000 per year or nearly 3X the volume.

Land Rover is attempting to re-position the Discovery in a different market segment. It should be no surprise that the initial attempt saw reduced volumes. The D6 changes should be interesting. Do they continue the path or return the Discovery to its roots?
 

mpinco

Expedition Leader
August 19, 2019
REPORT: NEXT-GEN JAGUAR LAND ROVER CROSSOVERS COULD USE BMW POWER
Jag gets gas and hybrid powertrains, BMW gets JLR's electric tech

"Jaguar is joining Toyota in taking tech from BMW for its upcoming vehicles. Autocar reports Jag is looking at two BMW-powered SUVs/crossovers while BMW will get some of Jaguar’s electric tech in exchange.

Sources say Bavaria is set to supply four- and six-cylinder engines to the British maker in both standard and hybrid form, which could mean an entry-level Land Rover complete with BMW power and chassis, to complement the Range Rover Evoque. Autocar says the bigger step will be sharing an advanced small car platform.

The new Jags could be based on BMW’s new front-drive platform and carry the "Pace" moniker while the Range Rover and Land Rovers could be based on the next-gen Mini Countryman and BMW X1 models. A new Land Rover Freelander could also see daylight...........

........Autocar posits the new baby Land Rover would be an urban small car, but could look like the upcoming Defender, which would be cool. The Jaguars, like we said, would be crossovers, one more swoopy than the other.
"
 

gatorgrizz27

Active member
August 19, 2019
REPORT: NEXT-GEN JAGUAR LAND ROVER CROSSOVERS COULD USE BMW POWER
Jag gets gas and hybrid powertrains, BMW gets JLR's electric tech

"Jaguar is joining Toyota in taking tech from BMW for its upcoming vehicles. Autocar reports Jag is looking at two BMW-powered SUVs/crossovers while BMW will get some of Jaguar’s electric tech in exchange.

Sources say Bavaria is set to supply four- and six-cylinder engines to the British maker in both standard and hybrid form, which could mean an entry-level Land Rover complete with BMW power and chassis, to complement the Range Rover Evoque. Autocar says the bigger step will be sharing an advanced small car platform.

The new Jags could be based on BMW’s new front-drive platform and carry the "Pace" moniker while the Range Rover and Land Rovers could be based on the next-gen Mini Countryman and BMW X1 models. A new Land Rover Freelander could also see daylight...........

........Autocar posits the new baby Land Rover would be an urban small car, but could look like the upcoming Defender, which would be cool. The Jaguars, like we said, would be crossovers, one more swoopy than the other.
"
Higher sales of a new model are to be expected after its release, it’s just the way things work. As much as I’d like to see Land Rover take the low sales of the D5 as some feedback of the direction they have been heading and correct it, I don’t want the brand to fail.

I’ve voiced my opinion in here already on BMW engine technology, so I won’t do it again, but that hybrid business could and likely will destroy the improved reliability reputation they’ve been enjoying. Not to mention the thought of a 2wd/fwd Land Rover makes me sick to my stomach. I had a feeling the Discovery Sport might be after seeing one in person, it looks like it is in other countries but not here.

Stuff like making low range an option is not good for us in the long run. Sure, it’s fine for now if you’re ordering a brand new one spec’d the way you want, but it means fewer and fewer that are out on the lots will have it, preventing deals, and it will be as uncommon buying a used one as the HD package with the locker on the LR3’s and 4’s. A few years down the road we may see most of the off-road tech stripped out of the flagship Range Rovers, only available as an option. The sad fact is the majority of people buying cars only care about what color it is, what the monthly payment will be, and how well the Bluetooth phone/entertainment system works.

The real win for Land Rover with this Defender is that it has the ability to bring in massive numbers of customers new to Land Rover. For the most part, they’ve had the same customer base for years. Guys that owned D1’s/2’s and RRC’s bought the LR3’s and 4’s, trophy wives have been getting their new Range Rovers every 2-3 years since 2003, and some families that already own a Land Rover have added one of the new cheaper models.

The Defender has a much broader appeal, and I’m hoping if it is reliable and has true aftermarket support, a ton will be sold to customers new to the brand.
 

Blaise

Well-known member
Stuff like making low range an option is not good for us in the long run. Sure, it’s fine for now if you’re ordering a brand new one spec’d the way you want,
Why should JLR care about anything *but* what is purchased new? That's who's paying them, not those who pick them up used.

I see this argument frequently with regards to manual transmission options for other vehicles. Sure you want one, but in 5 years. But if nobody buys one new, they won't exist. As you said, most people only care about the BT system and the payment. The days of being able to buy a supremely capable 4x4 for pennies (I own an LR3 HD which cost the same an '06 Civic or Corolla) are numbered... I'm glad I'm in my 30s and will be able to swing a new vehicle in 5 years or so.
 

mpinco

Expedition Leader
Why should JLR care about anything *but* what is purchased new? That's who's paying them, not those who pick them up used.

I see this argument frequently with regards to manual transmission options for other vehicles. Sure you want one, but in 5 years. But if nobody buys one new, they won't exist. As you said, most people only care about the BT system and the payment. The days of being able to buy a supremely capable 4x4 for pennies (I own an LR3 HD which cost the same an '06 Civic or Corolla) are numbered... I'm glad I'm in my 30s and will be able to swing a new vehicle in 5 years or so.
If you don't care about return customers you will be dead. The used market can be a significant factor in expanding your customer base. If you can get someone to drive your existing product they are more likely to visit the showroom. In addition it is common knowledge that LR dealers keep a good stock of pre-owned to cushion the shock of the high retail price of new. Better to sell the prospective customer a used LR than have them walk.

On manual transmissions - I believe the most popular Mini is the 6-speed manual. Eliminate the manual transmission and you might as well just end Mini. Just as we discussed with safety many customers want the fun factor, not the convenience factor. For some market segments that aspect can make or break you.
 
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