2020 Defender Spy Shots....

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naks

Well-known member
This Facebook post puts those air bellows photos in context:

"@jonnylieberman took these pix and said, "Bad news: the new Land Rover Defender most assuredly does NOT have a solid rear axle. Good news: we caught FOUR Defenders on the very most difficult part of Poison Spider Trail here in Moab. If these things can traverse Poison Spider, they don’t need ‘em!""



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blackangie

Well-known member
By the looks of it this is going to be a rugged looking SUV for the outdoorsy soccer mom. It doesn't look like a workhorse for use in 3rd world countries or for expeditions like the Series 78/79 Landcruisers.
Wow, wish my mom drove cars like that

Interesting, what specifically so far has made you think its a "SUV for outdoorsy soccer moms" considering the post above on what is known?

For me if something has a few rounded edges or IFS, that doesn't make something soft, its just the latest design that allows fuel efficiency and all terrains to be conquered well (dual purpose)

Regarding airbags, there is simply nothing better to tow(workhorse) with. Anyone that has used a d3,d4,d5, RRS or RRVogue to tow long distances knows this.

Regarding the new defender if they do a cab chassis 110 or 130 dual cab version (family of defenders to come according to JLR) ,it will be an incredible workhorse, The D5 has a 900+kg payload, I'm guessing the defender will be the same or more payload.

I would use an airbagged landrover as a workhorse anyday.

79 series are good work trucks to go from site a to site b. However they are far from perfect, and in the dual cab version are quite unsafe. This has been discussed at length on the AU LR forums. Just a few: Track 100mm different front/rear, fake snorkel, terrible alt position, starter in valley gets waterlogged, needs auto conv, needs rear coil conv etc, to heavy, unsafe, lifts wheels uphill.

It will depend what variants the new defender is released with in regards to what it will compete against, at this point i see them as serious Gwagon competition. Maybe half way between the professional version and the normal version.

JLR mentioned it has been driven against the competition(whoever that is) as above and its "phenomenal" and puts the "gwagon into the shade" so they talking a big game.





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blackangie

Well-known member
This Facebook post puts those air bellows photos in context:

"@jonnylieberman took these pix and said, "Bad news: the new Land Rover Defender most assuredly does NOT have a solid rear axle. Good news: we caught FOUR Defenders on the very most difficult part of Poison Spider Trail here in Moab. If these things can traverse Poison Spider, they don’t need ‘em!""



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Cheers..Who thought the new defender would be on solids? Haha..I havent for years, I would have been pretty upset if it wasnt on Airbagged IFS.

Good point with poison spider trail, anyone got a good vid of it so we in AU can see what its like?

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blackangie

Well-known member
Heres a twin snorkeled, beadlocked,flared Aussie gwagon near where I live for you US boys they can look tough.

Do you guys get the professional version we get?


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blackangie

Well-known member
One thing that has been brought up on the AU forum and above that I agree with is the exhaust placement, seems pretty vulnerable. I guess there are no other options for routing and the aftermarket will come up with something.
Is it a known issue with the newer IFS Land Rovers?


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blackangie

Well-known member
Good ole Land rover, make sure the exhaust hangs below the rear diff so it'll get all bashed up.

I'll be interested if they use the same 4 cyl engine + plug in hybrid system that they advertise for their RRS. That would interest me as most of my driving is in town and running on battery for ~30 miles would be awesome.
Was thinking the same about the 6 cylinder ingenium and hybrid, however in Australia because of our quality of fuel being not the best that bottle of Range Rover won't be available can't remember the name of it though, so if the fuel problem isn't fixed within a year, we won't be getting any models of new defender with the petrol particulate filter (PPF)


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naks

Well-known member
The exhaust is a bit low on my RRS, but to be honest, I'd rather scrape the exhaust than the rear diff or suspension arms - cheaper and easier to replace/fix

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sg1

Adventurer
Wow, wish my mom drove cars like that

Interesting, what specifically so far has made you think its a "SUV for outdoorsy soccer moms" considering the post above on what is known?

For me if something has a few rounded edges or IFS, that doesn't make something soft, its just the latest design that allows fuel efficiency and all terrains to be conquered well (dual purpose)

Regarding airbags, there is simply nothing better to tow(workhorse) with. Anyone that has used a d3,d4,d5, RRS or RRVogue to tow long distances knows this.

Regarding the new defender if they do a cab chassis 110 or 130 dual cab version (family of defenders to come according to JLR) ,it will be an incredible workhorse, The D5 has a 900+kg payload, I'm guessing the defender will be the same or more payload.

I would use an airbagged landrover as a workhorse anyday.

79 series are good work trucks to go from site a to site b. However they are far from perfect, and in the dual cab version are quite unsafe. This has been discussed at length on the AU LR forums. Just a few: Track 100mm different front/rear, fake snorkel, terrible alt position, starter in valley gets waterlogged, needs auto conv, needs rear coil conv etc, to heavy, unsafe, lifts wheels uphill.

It will depend what variants the new defender is released with in regards to what it will compete against, at this point i see them as serious Gwagon competition. Maybe half way between the professional version and the normal version.

JLR mentioned it has been driven against the competition(whoever that is) as above and its "phenomenal" and puts the "gwagon into the shade" so they talking a big game.





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Sure, I can elaborate. During the last 8 years I spent about 4 to 5 months every year traveling through Africa and Latin America. On those trips I met quite a few travelers with Defenders and not a single one with a Range Rover. Especially in Africa I saw Defenders as safari vehicles, ambulaces and military vehicles. Again not a single Range Rover was used for these purposes. The reason for that is obvious. Even in its last iteration the Defender was technically quite simple and easy to service and fix. Because of its frame and the design of its body it was easy to convert to a multitude of uses including a home on wheels for overland travelers or open safari vehicles for an African tour operator. The Range Rover certainly is a very capable off road vehicle but nobody has ever claimed that it is simple, exceptionaly reliable and easy to fix and service. Because of its unibody design it is much more difficult to convert or modify it. Unfortunately the new Defender looks like a redesigned Range Rover and does not look like a simple easily serviced or repaired platform which can easily be modified or converted.
For someone who lives in a major urban center with a good Jaguar /Land Rover dealer who looks for a cool looking truck which he can use as a capable off road machine on weekends the new Defender may be perfect. If you are planing to do some extended international traveling in the 3rd world or if you are an African tour operator looking for a new safari vehicle you may be out of luck with the new Defender based on what we know so far.
 

blackangie

Well-known member
Sure, I can elaborate. During the last 8 years I spent about 4 to 5 months every year traveling through Africa and Latin America. On those trips I met quite a few travelers with Defenders and not a single one with a Range Rover. Especially in Africa I saw Defenders as safari vehicles, ambulaces and military vehicles. Again not a single Range Rover was used for these purposes. The reason for that is obvious. Even in its last iteration the Defender was technically quite simple and easy to service and fix. Because of its frame and the design of its body it was easy to convert to a multitude of uses including a home on wheels for overland travelers or open safari vehicles for an African tour operator. The Range Rover certainly is a very capable off road vehicle but nobody has ever claimed that it is simple, exceptionaly reliable and easy to fix and service. Because of its unibody design it is much more difficult to convert or modify it. Unfortunately the new Defender looks like a redesigned Range Rover and does not look like a simple easily serviced or repaired platform which can easily be modified or converted.
For someone who lives in a major urban center with a good Jaguar /Land Rover dealer who looks for a cool looking truck which he can use as a capable off road machine on weekends the new Defender may be perfect. If you are planing to do some extended international traveling in the 3rd world or if you are an African tour operator looking for a new safari vehicle you may be out of luck with the new Defender based on what we know so far.
Interesting take and respect your opinion for sure, however would you not agree that in order for JLR to remake the defender it had to have a rock solid business case, like 100k + vehicles per year solid, now on average the current defender sold 20k per year approx, and lets not forget you couldn't even buy them in the states.

A few of the things it needed to do was improve safety (5star) AU mines wont even touch a vehicle thats not 5star safety rated anymore, it includes things like raked windscreen, smoother bodys etc.


Also to build a vehicle that can be sold everywhere including china (incentives for EV purchases), euro 6 emission regs, Low emission zones(LEZ) and No Emission Zones.(NEZ) Australia is currently considering adopting euro 6 etc etc, it must have EV architecture, not complicated, but not simple either.

Unfortunately as much as we love the old defender, they kept it in its current incarnation longer than they should have.
All other similar vehicles are living on borrowed time.

It did have drawbacks mainly safety, comfort and too specific a target market.

From where I am sitting and from what we know so far the new defender looks to tick every box, whilst staying as rugged and utilitarian as possible both for regs and to make it sustainable to build long term.

The fake paneling all over makes it look a little D4/Rangie ish for sure and yes its got IFS which makes it safe whilst still rugged.

Bowler bulldog uses RRS IFS parts and win rallys.

If the leaked interior is anything to go by it will have an even simpler dash than the jeep and no centre console, rather a seat.
I haven't seen a rangie or a disco with that, only a series LR.

I agree though, it would be great to have something bare bones, fix on the trail etc etc..hangon we do, the current defender..according to JLR (as quoted in the what we know post) the new one will be about getting the balance of everything above right whilst staying true to its heritage.

The more I think about it, the more I understand how difficult redesigning the new defender would have been.

Easy for us to say, "your idiots, leave it as it is" however its simply wasnt possibly for so many reasons.

Having said that, for those that need exactly the current defender, its not going anywhere during our lifetime, unless they start banning certain cars like in other countries. Until then enjoy it whilst you can i say .



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blackangie

Well-known member
Some close-up shots:
Nice find, Front suspension seen for the first time, rear retractable towbar, HD recovery point, 90 offroad, rear closeup showing camo depth (rear door hinges most likely under), rear camera (possible wash nozzle next to it?), Hybrid brakes larger, diesel brakes smaller.

Spotted on Fins & Things trail and top of potato salad

Thanks again to FJester, what a legend! (subscribe or like to thank)


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rlynch356

Defyota
looks like it has been thoroughly ruined to me... basically they have taken a vehicle that could have easily sold 1/2 as many as a Jeep wrangler and easily doubled JLR's production numbers and profit and made it into a caricature of what it was. At best this is a good replacement for the LR4 since the D5 has failed in the marketplace. I was really hoping for a modern replacement which would be available in the US.

This is a CUV...
 

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blackangie

Well-known member
Wow, someone managed to get some close-ups of the undercarriage!



I think the big takeaway here is the sway bar, i think the subframed modern LR's usually have a active sway bar, hydraulic from memory, this doesn't have that, I'm guessing this is why it rolled so much at the Ring.

So it seems they may be trying to keep it simple.

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