2020 Defender Spy Shots....

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Expedition Leader
Yup ........

Western Companies Like Apple And Land Rover Are Learning How Not To Do Business In China

".......Don’t push developed market price points onto developing country consumers.
This morning’s report by IDC of a 19.9% decline in iPhone sales in China in December was shocking. ..........

......Don’t take a successful Western brand and assume it will translate to the Chinese market. Last week brought a dreadful earnings report from Tata Motors, including a loss at the EBIT level and an asset write-down totaling 3.1 billion euros. Tata management blamed its earnings miss on declining unit sales for its Jaguar Land Rover unit in China. JLR sales in China declined 21.6% for 2018 with an astounding 42.4% drop in December. These figures are obviously magnitudes larger than the declines registered in the overall Chinese vehicle market, and it shows the weakness of Range Rover. .......

.......So, Apple needs to figure out how to hit Chinese price points, Tata needs to figure out whether Jaguar and Land Rover will ever have critical mass among Chinese car buyers--Elon should be asking himself that question about Tesla, too ........."

JLR and Apple's attempt to go ever up-market have ended.


Expedition Leader
Argh ................ even as I have seen more Land Rover commercials that I think I have ever seen in the past.

Market Convinced Jaguar Bankruptcy Only Matter Of Time

With so much attention these days on whether Tesla will be profitable, and whether or not its business model is viable for the foreseeable future, another iconic automaker is approaching dire financial straits: Jaguar Land Rover.

As the following chart shows, over the past year, CDS on Jaguar Land Rover Automotive PLC has soared from just 150bps to 900 bps.

As a result, the probability of default for the carmaker over the next 5 year has soared to 54%, with its default odds over the next 3 years as high as a third. ........

.......What is the reason for Jaguar's distressed liquidity profile? As Bloomberg notes, the company's working-capital profile has sharply deteriorated over the past few quarters, as bloated inventory levels pressure liquidity and potentially require even more severe discounting in periods ahead. Meanwhile, its high level of payables to receivables also leverages the potential risks of an industry slowdown on its liquidity outlook. ...........

........Does this mean that absent a sharp rebound in the Chinese market, iconic brands such as Jaguar, Land Rover and Aston Martin will soon disappear? Hardly: after all the company will continue operating in bankruptcy, even if its parent, Tata Motors will no longer be in the picture. The only question is who will be the proud owner of James Bond's favorite car maker a few years from now. "


Expedition Leader
Will the new Defender line get the new 3.0L straight six which planned for 2020? From what I have read the Ingenium engines are planned for the Defender.

Jaguar Land Rover has revealed its latest Ingenium engine, a 3.0-litre straight-six petrol making up to 294kW and 550Nm.

"......The new engine features an electric supercharger for immediate response and a twin-scroll turbocharger for top-end power. In a statement, JLR said: “These performance-boosting technologies, combined with Mild Hybrid Electric Vehicle (MHEV) technology, optimises performance, fuel economy and reduces emissions. The MHEV 48V system uses a small integrated electric motor to harvest energy lost during deceleration, and then intelligently redeploys it to assist the engine to maximise efficiency”. ......"


Well-known member
Will the new Defender line get the new 3.0L straight six which planned for 2020? From what I have read the Ingenium engines are planned for the Defender.
This engine is already planned for the Range Rover Sport HST in a mild hybrid config. Seems it's in a fairly mild state of tune in that application - 394hp / 406lb-ft should be possible IMO from just a turbo *or* super-charged straight six (maybe minus some torque). Seems reasonable that this would be an option for the Defender since they'll need to hit EPA / EU6 emissions targets and CAFE standards, and the Defender still appears to be fairly bricklike so it will need all the help it can get.

Volvo gets 400 hp / 472lb-ft out of a conventionally-boosted (i.e., Roots supercharger, conventional single turbo) four-banger plus two electric motors. Perhaps there will be more exciting tunes for JLR's combination....



Leak of the interior mock up today:

I'm super interested now. Look at the 3rd front row seat!. That's way more utilitarian than I was expecting - I might have some hope for this thing after all!


Expedition Leader
Stop and Go pedals? Really?

Don't see a 3rd front row seat in that pic.

Prediction - if the Defender doesn't eliminate financial losses Tata will be looking to offload JLR. Actually I think they are already shopping JLR. The transition to next generation technology and the overall political environment have become untenable.

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Well-known member
Well...that looks sufficiently down-market. Materials look like they belong in a Ford fleet vehicle. The console shifter is straight out of the Honda Element though. But that just means it's electronic....

Hope indeed.


Expedition Leader
Discovery SVX cancelled.

Land Rover Cancels Discovery SVX Too

".......The Special Vehicle Operations recently lost Wayne Burgess, design boss of the division. Chinese automaker Geely snatched him at the beginning of February 2019, ending an 18-year spell at Jaguar Land Rover........."

In addition latest articles on the China issues are beginning to reveal the true source of the issue. An old nemesis.

".......But those challenges are only part of the problem facing the company. What has rattled JLR's business in China most are persistent woes with reliability and dependability. ........"


Active member
Wow. I’m away a few days and the whole company collapses.

I’d grab my popcorn but I fear this will all be over before the microwave finishes popping it!

Paddler Ed

I still see a number of problems ahead for them; the main one being their sales numbers are nowhere big enough to survive at the current rate.

1) Jaguar have an unappealing image for those aged under 60... by definition that is a growing market... over 60 you tend to die... This is why their BMW 3 and 5 series rivals never do well; the -pace range seem to be doing OK at appealing to those under 50 a bit more.
2) Land Rover have a mis-mash of offerings that compete and canabilise one another (and then canabalise the Jaguar rival offering as well as people cross-shop)

To make the LR work it needs the range to look something like:
-LR Discovery Sport: Softroader+, 2 litre ish engine, IFS & IRS, 2wd option, 4wd with HDC and a crawler 1st gear (like the old VW Syncro), about the same size as a Jetta Wagon in footprint, 5 doors, 5 seats
-LR Discovery: The Good car for a farmer to take to town; some commonality with the Defender in terms of platform/engine, IFS, live rear axle, 3ish litre diesel and petrols, low range transfer case, 7 seats. Rival a Prado/Fortuner/Ford Everest/Isuzu Mu-X/Holden Colorado7 (or whatever they're calling it this week)
-LR Defender: SWB, LWB, XLWB (90, 110, 130) single cab, double cab and wagons. Much more basic interior, detuned engine, IFS & live rear axle, engines as Discovery, 7-9 seats. Rival a 70 series Land Cruiser but with a bit of flair.
-Range Rover Sport: The farm owner's wife's car... 2.5-3.0 petrol or diesel, can be a monocoque, bit of a test bed for new tech, more gadgets and gizmos, 5 seater,
-Range Rover: Farm Owner's car; 3.0 petrol/diesel or 2.0 + hybrid, IFS & IRS, air suspension 5-7 seats, nice trim $$$ price tag.

I have a recollection that the original Discovery was the same price as the Defender when it was launched... how did they manage that? They raided the parts bin... they've now been too used to making things for only one model, not sharing stuff.
I look at all of this as a survivor plan! As many of us stated before, I think they are looking at numbers of what is making money and what is not. Many companies are in the same boat and I go back to my comment on what FORD did and I think it's going to be a smart move and safe the company. The rest of the American motors companies will just keep making money for themselves and when it gets tough, ask the Gov for another bailout....

Ford's idea to cut all production on vehicles not making them money and convert the plans to those that are killing it is smart in my opinion. Maybe this is where JLR is going and seeing that there is a market they fit in and a million more that they do not and are losing money in. Either way, it's gonna hurt a lot more first before it gets better.....assuming they are on the right track.

I think we are all waiting to see what happens........the question is, will the Gov overseas let them fail or bail them out like here so we can pay taxes on the rising vehicle costs of bad leadership......lol
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