2020 Defender Spy Shots....
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DieselRanger
Well-known member
Again, as I and others have pointed out, LR is not and has never been an entry-level brand. It's an aspirational brand. When you're a starving college graduate trying to make it in the world, if you are going to buy an off-road rig you're going to buy a 10-year old Jeep or Toyota for a couple grand, and it might even be your daily driver. The Defender won't change that.
Vehicle sales are declining worldwide, yes, because China is getting kicked in the balls right now - it's a huge economy, but their economy is fragile, as we're proving to them. In Europe, Volkswagen screwed the pooch and diesels, which used to represent something like 47% of the auto market there, are now being shunned. But here in the US and A, where our economy is booming, people can't get enough of the Range Rover Sports and Discoveries. I've seen more RRS's here in Colorado in the last 6 months than I saw living in LA and Vegas for seven years between them. And in one day on trails outside Crested Butte/Marble, I saw two other D5s. You know how many Jeeps I saw? One. DI/II's? Zero. Four or five Tacos and a couple 4Runners.
Your entry level vehicle? The new Ford Ranger FX4 MSRP: $35,300.
Victory_Overland
Explorer
Yeah, and fully loaded Lariat is only $44k MSRP.......which in my opinion is a fabulous price mark for a fully loaded competition for Tacos. Just wish both would diesel up those models.
I think Ford nailed it finally in the business plan by cutting every vehicle that did not make them a ton of money and changing their plants over from cars to truck/SUV. I am hoping JLR does that as well and cuts wasteful models and sticks to the one to two models per brand and ditch the fluff in between.
Land Rover may be an "aspirational brand" in the US but for the ROW it is equivalent to Jeep. As already noted LR's destined for the US are loaded up pushing prices into luxury territory. That is a JLR 'choice'. For the ROW LR also has to serve the agricultural sector as well and your everyday utility vehicle. Base for ROW is not heated steering wheel and remote control folding seats.
JLR has already stated that some models will be discontinued and overall organization will be "rationalized" to address large losses. (China isn't the only market they are struggling in) What models should be discontinued? How does LR serve the bread and butter lower end? How do they prevent themselves from becoming Cadillac? By that I mean the customer base ages as there are few to no models to introduce a younger generation to the product line.
JLR has already stated that some models will be discontinued and overall organization will be "rationalized" to address large losses. (China isn't the only market they are struggling in) What models should be discontinued? How does LR serve the bread and butter lower end? How do they prevent themselves from becoming Cadillac? By that I mean the customer base ages as there are few to no models to introduce a younger generation to the product line.
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Welcome to Colorado, the sales capital of Subaru's. Hueberger Subaru/Colorado Springs at one time was the highest volume dealer in the nation and that was over a decade ago. Their parts department will deliver to your house.
I'm in Colorado Springs and travel to Denver every once in a while. Use to commute to DTC. Saw my first D5 a month ago, second maybe a week ago. Rather sparse for the Front Range. Lots of LR3/4's and RRS amongst the sea of Subaru's and CUV/SUV's. Several DI's and DII's. On the trail thoughout Southwestern Colorado on the Alpine Loop and Engineer's Pass it was mostly ATV's and Jeeps. Zero other LR's. An occupant of an ATV yelled out "I wouldn't bring my LR4 up here!" I see few LR's on trails. If I do its DI's/DII's. I don't recall ever seeing a RRS or RR. And when we camp up and down the Collegiate's it is ALL Jeeps and few Toyota's.
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sunrisehiker
Adventurer
Sorry Buddy, but Colorado is far from being the capital of Subaru's. LOL. Vermont, Maine and NH is.
On a decade long scale ........ They will even ship to you in Vermont, Maine or NH!
Keep in mind that Colorado Springs and surrounding area was a population of 400K when Heuberger was #1 nation wide.
Heuberger Subaru | #1 Subaru Dealer in the Nation
Today's JLR financial news is even worse.
Jaguar Land Rover takes £3.1bn hit as demand stalls
UK’s biggest carmaker suffers big writedown as it posts third quarterly loss in row
".......Sales of the Discovery — one of JLR’s newest models — fell in the last quarter by 40 per cent compared to a year earlier. ...........
........Of JLR’s 13 models across its two brands, only four saw sales grow — the Jaguar E-Pace and electric Jaguar I-Pace, both made in Austria by a contract manufacturer, and the Range Rover and Range Rover Sport vehicles. "
Jaguar Land Rover takes $4.4B hit, writes down value of cars, plants
"......The write-down during the quarter ending in December was a 3.1 billion pound ($4 billion) one-time non-cash charge, the company said.
It was taken after some of the automaker's newest models saw steep falls in demand. ..........."
Jaguar Land Rover takes £3.1bn hit as demand stalls
UK’s biggest carmaker suffers big writedown as it posts third quarterly loss in row
".......Sales of the Discovery — one of JLR’s newest models — fell in the last quarter by 40 per cent compared to a year earlier. ...........
........Of JLR’s 13 models across its two brands, only four saw sales grow — the Jaguar E-Pace and electric Jaguar I-Pace, both made in Austria by a contract manufacturer, and the Range Rover and Range Rover Sport vehicles. "
Jaguar Land Rover takes $4.4B hit, writes down value of cars, plants
"......The write-down during the quarter ending in December was a 3.1 billion pound ($4 billion) one-time non-cash charge, the company said.
It was taken after some of the automaker's newest models saw steep falls in demand. ..........."
DieselRanger
Well-known member
I'm in the Briargate area and work on the far north side of the Springs. A lady who works across the street from my building drives a white D5, I saw a Silicon Silver almost identical to mine on Research the other day, and there's a Loire Blue around town from time to time - I think they live in Black Forest. But yep, lots of RRS's and LRx's and a few DI/II's. I'm not sure I've ever seen an LR3/4 on the trails here. There's a great Land Rover video of an RRS going over Black Bear Pass on street tires.
Not bad for a county of 2,100 square miles with only about 700,000 people, close to 100,000 of which wear uniforms and/or directly support those who do. Colorado Springs itself is only about 450,000. There are also at least 3 Nissan GT-R's (a red one, a black one, and a silver one), three Lamborghinis (one silver/black Gallardo and a couple Huracans), two McLarens, and about a brazillion Porsches. Lots of competition for premium vehicles here. Of course some of those might belong to the Black & Decker guy, who also has a 918 and I believe a Lexus LFA (if that was him driving around the Broadmoor around Haloween...).
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DieselRanger
Well-known member
"Overall performance continued to be impacted by challenging market conditions in China," said JLR CEO Ralf Speth. "We continue to work closely with Chinese retailers to respond to current market conditions with a pull-based approach to vehicle sales."
JLR is also battling waning demand for diesels, which account for the vast majority of Jaguar's and Land Rover's sales in Europe. "
DieselRanger
Well-known member
A lot more people in the NE. But that's OK, don't come to Colorado, it sucks, you'd hate it.
JLR is blaming China and Brexit and I'm not surprised of the impact of those 2 issues but .......... "Of JLR’s 13 models across its two brands, only four saw sales grow — the Jaguar E-Pace and electric Jaguar I-Pace, both made in Austria by a contract manufacturer, and the Range Rover and Range Rover Sport vehicles. " which indicates a broader issue than China/Brexit.
Volumes of E-Pace and I-Pace are nothing to write home about so any increase would be expected. Which really just leaves 2 of 13 models seeing sales growth while the D5 is down 40%. Ouch! Thinking Jaguar product line is going to be downsized but maybe a LR model also. One article on the latest financial news raised the possibility that JLR is going to have to partner with another manufacturer as Tata attempts to reduce losses that have their bonds and borrowing cost at junk levels.
I'm near Air Force Academy so we will need to meet for a drink somewhere.
DieselRanger
Well-known member
Absolutely!
And don't get me wrong - I would love to see a Defender priced to compete with the Wrangler, something with an interior you could hose out, or at least one that's more ruggedized and down-market, with a feature set and modularity similar to the Jeep. They've been getting that feedback from many via social media and through their customer market research portal fairly regularly. Here's hoping they listen.
Murphypants
Member
Here in Stowe VT, I've seen exactly 2 D5s. There are a ton of LR3s and LR4s, gaggles of 4Runners, Land Cruisers and 4x4 Sprinters, and too many Outbacks to count, but the virtual absence of D5s certainly supports the argument that it is not selling well, at least in these parts (doesn't help that Land Rover doesn't have any dealers in VT anymore, but then again about half of the traffic up here is people from NY, CT and MA with second homes). The second one I saw was in the lot at Burke Mountain, parked next to a MB GLS class SUV, and I think that is the only market that they're aiming for anymore. For a time, the DII was marketed as a more accessible vehicle to the masses (upscale but not completely unattainable), but they've gone way upmarket since then . . . and only time will tell if that will help or hurt them. Am not a big fan of the current design, although the D5 is a beautiful car, IMHO it has lost everything that once made it distinctive. My best guess is that the "new Defender" will basically be an updated LR4 shaped vehicle with a tire on the back, "DEFENDER" across the hood and absolutely nothing else in common with its predecessors. Sad that Land Rover appears to have taken a completely different path than Jeep with the Wrangler or MB with the GWagen.
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