2020 Defender Spy Shots....

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No, they quite clearly state it's built on the same platform as the Disco. The electronic systems have been updated, and the monocoque is significantly stiffer, and the interior is completely different, and it looks different and comes with different options and can take larger tires and can do better off-road right off the lot, but yes, it's basically the same thing. Such is the way of things in world auto platforms these days.

The Disco was always more of an all-around daily driver that can overland when you want to, and go on 90% of the roads in the world. Still is. The Defender was always the technical off-roader that could be your expedition vehicle or weekend warrior trail basher. Still is. Except now it's much, much nicer to drive, safer, and more durable than the old Defender, and it's more capable off the lot than the old Defender.

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If you’re talking about the Discovery 1, it had an identical chassis and running gear to the Defenders. The differences were wheelbase and different high range transfer case ratio due to the Defenders coming with larger tires. Same for the Range Rover Classic. Land Rover hasn’t built another solid axle vehicle since 95.

I do agree that the Defender shouldn’t be rolling out flagship tech. Use the trickle down technology of the premium models. Land Rover has been so far ahead of the curve that they’ve had stuff out for a decade that’s just becoming the norm.

How many people would be happy if the new Defender was nothing but a stretched LR3 with a more classic looking Defender body and interior? I’d be fine with it.
Im currently shopping the Denali market. Nearly bought one two weeks ago. $68,000 is about as low as it gets for those and they are selling like crazy right now. On the flip side the much more modern and way way better interior layout of the new Expedition isn’t selling well in the Platinum trim. I’m going to push to see if we can land in the $69k range on a msrp 80k rig this weekend. It’s doable given dealers are advertising them very close to that now yr old lot queens.

The 2020 Explorer platinum is about a $57,000 rig “IF” you can get invoice on a all new rig just arriving?? Probably a long shot.
I guess that would be my point. If I was looking for a truck with a luxury swag to it; going to the market owners is where I would be looking. LR is smart enough to know they can't disrupt the P/U market and those sales would be marginal and not worth the cost of R&D. Not saying it would not be a great truck, but not something they can make a ton of money on or maybe break even; smart IMO to stop now before it bleeds money JLR does not have.
Airplanes are some of the most technologically complicated vehicles on the planet if not the most, and yet they are the most reliable.

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Are you claiming that airplanes never need to have thee electronics repaired or replaced? Because that would be quite hard to believe.


Expedition Leader
The evolution/investment direction for the new Defender, actually the entire JLR product line, will be to hybrid and full EV. Complexity will jump as will cost. Owner serviceability will significantly decline. You see that in JLR investments and partnerships. Government regulation will further this trajectory. Complexity may result in throw-away vehicles even as cost climb. Will people buy them? Well that is another story.


Well-known member
Uh, you can thank VW and the emissions cheating scandal, not the people of California....
It started well before Dieselgate with CARB trying to regulate diesels out of existence. There is a long history of activist statements to the effect of, "diesels do not belong on our roads," or indeed even farms.

But yes, Dieselgate did, um, throw fuel on the fire.

Interestingly, the retrofitted ones are selling like hotcakes. Saw two with temp tags just yesterday.

I think mine has been parted out by now.

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Whether or not it's durable enough is yet to be seen.. LR says it is, what else would they say? Time will tell. After some real off-road beta testing and lots of miles by those willing to risk dropping $80K on a decently spec'd version; we'll see. Does the aftermarket respond?...has LR built it in a way where they realistically can? Once it has a proven track record and has been through the gauntlet of actual use we'll see. I've not seen 1 article yet by a journalist who has actually driven it and you are already claiming it "much nicer to drive" than the Disco 5- how do you know that? I do agree with you on one thing- it's very likely more capable than the old Defender- so are most Subaru's.
One, I meant that it will drive better than the old Defender. How do I know it drives better? Because I have a Discovery 5, and as you saw, the Defender is on the same architecture with the same suspension design and the 110 has about the same proportions and weight, so yeah, I'm absolutely confident that it will drive better than a 1980s era design on solid axles. And it will be light years more comfortable and better handling on the road than an equivalent Wrangler. Doesn't take a road test to know that.

Two, the aftermarket will respond. Lucky8 already makes rock sliders, winch tray, bull bars, and offers light mounts, roof racks, and all manner of accessories for the D5. They hinted they got a sneak peek at the Defender in an Insta post a few months ago. So yeah, the aftermarket will respond. Here's what Lucky8 has done with the Disco:

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Bayou Boy

This has been discussed in depth on this thread.. Land Rovers dependability in the US has increased 180 percent over the last 20 years.. what has happened is the industry as a whole has improved also.

If you look at Land Rovers reliability in the UK on the same study it is almost on par with Toyota, why? Because Toyota sell diesels there also and it is a more level playing field.

In my opinion there is nothing to worry about me I'm driver's reliability these days, fact wise it is twice as good as 20 years ago in America.

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No it hasn't.

You've been parroting it. Going from last to third from last isn't some reliability nirvana.

That's like saying terrible is better than abysmal so it's ok. It's not.
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