2012 unlimited or Toyota fj

udoxx

Observer
Look into becoming a member of treadlightly, that will allow you 1% below invoice! I wish I had known about that before I made my purchase. I was only able to get loyalty and military incentives at the time. They are not budging on the 12s. Naturally they want to get rid of the 11s first.

Yes, 4.10s would rev higher but the Rubicon is on taller tires than the Sport or Sahara. The Rubicon is geared toward low speed crawling which is what the 4.10s are intended for.
 

iMTB

Adventurer
I vote the JKU of the 2. I've owned a TJ and currently own a KJ. My old roommate has a stock FJ and it's not as good offroad as my KJ. The JKU would destroy my KJ offroad.

But I spent alot of time in my parents Sequoia and loved it. So based on the price range you are looking at I would have to say the 4 Runner is the best. I hate the idea of buying a new car that wasn't made in America though.

I'm personally waiting until there is a diesel wrangler option, then I'll jump on it.
 

jeep-N-montero

Expedition Leader
I vote the JKU of the 2. I've owned a TJ and currently own a KJ. My old roommate has a stock FJ and it's not as good offroad as my KJ. The JKU would destroy my KJ offroad.

But I spent alot of time in my parents Sequoia and loved it. So based on the price range you are looking at I would have to say the 4 Runner is the best. I hate the idea of buying a new car that wasn't made in America though.

I'm personally waiting until there is a diesel wrangler option, then I'll jump on it.

Ummm, I guess you aren't aware that Toyota builds most of its cars and trucks in AMERICA, although the 4-runner is still assembled in Japan with a few others. Chrysler on the other hand builds most of its lineup outside of the country.
 

srmitchell

Observer
The FJ and Prius are the only US bound models made in Japan I believe. I remember because after the tsunami, they were worried about supplies.

Bottom line, the FJ has IFS. You cannot achieve the articulation that a solid axle can.

And with the new Pentastar.... the Jk is one fine machine. I can't wait to drive one.
 

imagrsmnky

New member
I have a fairly un-biased opinion. I have worked a fair amount on both the FJ and the JK's (newest was 2009).

Interior
Both have uncomfortable and ugly interiors, but thats the "cup holder prevails" world that we live in. the JKU has more usable storage space. I do like the rubber mats in the FJ but for the price I think carpet should be an option.

On Road
Driving the FJ is not bad it has a nice amount of power and the transmission is responsive (keep in mind I drive primarily mountain roads), steering is great as it should be from a rack and pinion. Visibility is like driving a chop top cargo van, I always find my self leaning forward because I feel like I am missing somthing, Also the blind spots (everywhere but out the drivers window) are killers. My mom owns an FJ and my Dad has backed it into two parked cars while parrallell parking (I vouch that its not that he is just a bad driver, hasnt has any issues like this in other vehicles).
The JK drives like a pickup and in my opinion it should. The motor is gutless (haven't driven the 3.6, I hear it's much better). The transmission (auto) sucks, always hunting for where it should be (again mountain roads). steering is responsive but not as "tight" feeling as I feel it should be (similar feelings with my dodge 2500 CTD).

Suspension
The suspension design of the JKU for off road is superior, but its not without its flaws. I have done repairs on three with under 70k miles on them still bone stock that had major death wobble issues. The ball joints and pannhard are common problem areas, even in stock form (especially Rubicons).
The FJ is smooth on the road and is nice on those long fire road that are just annoyingly bumpy. there isn't much in the articulation department but its well designed and doesn't have the maintenance issues that the jeep does, although with heavy off road use you will be replacing TREs and Ball joints more frequently.

Drive train
for the sake of this being shorter I will stick with the Rubicon model. the motor is gutless and has a few reliability issues ( I know of a few that have spun bearings while still being well under 100k miles)
transmission, manual is good, auto is typical Chrysler not bad but not great defiantly could benefit from an additional cooler (again mountain roads and some light towing)
transfer case, good reliable as long as you keep the fluid level up. most common failure I see is: the cust says "i thought it got its fluid from the transmission" I say "no" He says "that sucks" and pays to have it rebuilt. (this was a non Rubicon so not a 241or)
drive shafts are, IMO, Weak.
Front axle can be bent even in stock form from abuse but is generally fine
rear axle is all gravy
electric lockers are nice but I have had minor issues with them.

FJ motor is awesome, typical Toyota reliability. nice power
trans is good only had one in our shop to rebuild and it had 170k on it and went through a deep water crossing, and apparently it was thirsty because it took a big drink.
transfer case would be nice to have an option for a 4 to 1 but in stock form it does ok.
front axle is typical for IFS setups prone to failure in the right (or wrong) conditions leaves me wanting more
rear axle is tried and true and the TRD locker works excellent

Reliability goes to the FJ hands down

Aftermarket support is there for the FJ but no where near as prevalent as for the Jeep.

For those of you who say "I prefer to buy American" keep in mind Jeep is Fiat (defiantly not American). Most of the Toyota we buy here in the us are built here in the US (not sure of the FJ) which creates a lot of jobs for our countrymen (and women). Not sure but I think jeeps are assembled in Mexico or Canada (as the dodge trucks are). Think about the fact that Toyota has been true to its design and has produced a quality product for the US since the early 70's (could be late 60's don't know my Toyota history that far back) The jeep name has bounced around many different parent companies which hasn't always benefited the end user.



all in all if I were shopping for a new overlandingish vehicle that I could DD, and I had to choose between these two, I would buy the Jeep mainly because the FJ is hideous (I guess I'm just a little vein). I think both can be built into respectable offroad capable vehicles, The JKU will be more capable for less money though.

In all reality I was asking my self the same question a couple months ago between a Tacoma 4door or a JKU and the wife and I decided on the taco (keep in mind I live 30min from the Rubicon trail) for the sake of reliability and a lower cost of maintaining it. Of course life happened and we didn't get either (I picked up a wrecked TJ instead and I'm rebuilding it).

My only other suggestion is make a very informed decision, go test drive as many different vehicles as you can even in the same make and model, even if its the same car one will feel different. Go with your gut and don't let sales men BS you into thinking one is better than another. Always go to the dealer around 10:30 am so you have an excuse to leave for "lunch" and think over the arrangement without them circling like vultures.

I hope my opinions are helpful in some way.

See you on the trail

Nick
 

K2ZJ

Explorer
I have a fairly un-biased opinion. I have worked a fair amount on both the FJ and the JK's (newest was 2009).

The motor is gutless (haven't driven the 3.6, I hear it's much better). The transmission (auto) sucks, always hunting for where it should be (again mountain roads). steering is responsive but not as "tight" feeling as I feel it should be (similar feelings with my dodge 2500 CTD).

I hope my opinions are helpful in some way.

See you on the trail

Nick

You should really drive the 3.6. It is very smooth and it moves a Rubi very well.

Considering the OP asked about a 2012, there are significant differences in the motors.
 

gwayms

Observer
2012 unlimited or Fj

Does anyone know how long it takes to get your info if you sign up for treadlightly? I would like to use this when purchasing my new jeep but its going to be real soon
 

imagrsmnky

New member
You should really drive the 3.6. It is very smooth and it moves a Rubi very well.

Considering the OP asked about a 2012, there are significant differences in the motors.

I am sure the new motor makes a big difference, but the motor isn't the whole jeep. I shared what I know about the models I have experience with and most of 2012 is still the same (same steering and suspension).

For that line of thinking you could buy a 3.8 and put a super charger on it and still be money ahead, rather than dropping the coin for a brand new vehicle.
 

jeep-N-montero

Expedition Leader
I am sure the new motor makes a big difference, but the motor isn't the whole jeep. I shared what I know about the models I have experience with and most of 2012 is still the same (same steering and suspension).

For that line of thinking you could buy a 3.8 and put a super charger on it and still be money ahead, rather than dropping the coin for a brand new vehicle.

This is my kind of thinking, one can likely find a nicely modded and possibly supercharged used JKU for at least $8-10k less than a new one, that's a whole lot of trip money! Shoot, even just upgrading the intake, exhaust and adding a power programmer to a stock 3.8 will wake it up a lot.
 

JPK

Explorer
I am sure the new motor makes a big difference, but the motor isn't the whole jeep. I shared what I know about the models I have experience with and most of 2012 is still the same (same steering and suspension).

For that line of thinking you could buy a 3.8 and put a super charger on it and still be money ahead, rather than dropping the coin for a brand new vehicle.

No, not really, at least for those who prefer an auto.

The most consequential change between pre-2012's and 2012's is isn't the much more powerful Pentastar with it's remarkably flat torque curve which provides more torque throughout the rpm range, especially at low rpms, it is the WA580 five speed auto transmission.

The previous 42re four speed auto has just the wrong gearing for a Jeep. Too high first gear, way to high O/D fourth and way, way too much gap between 1:1 third and .69:1 O/D fourth.

An auto 2012 Rubicon with 4.10's - which are optional now - has about the same rpms at highway speed as the previous model years with 4.88's, and about the same first gear final drive as the previous model years with 5.13's. And that huge gap between third and fourth in the 42re is gone as well.

As far as getting more from the previous 3.8, those who have tried report no substantial gain with intakes, exhausts or programmers. Bolting on a super charge still leaves you with the crappy 42re. The best use of a 2011 is to pull the 3.8 and 42re and put in a Hemi and a 545rfe, or the now possible 5.3 or 6.0 GM LS engines and a 6l80.

BTW, want to improve the steering and handling of any JK? Install an AEV suspension. Reduced body lean, reduced break dive, reduced acceleration squat, improved cornering, improved steering... Oh, and a better ride too.

JPK
 
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imagrsmnky

New member
No, not really, at least for those who prefer an auto.

The most consequential change between pre-2012's and 2012's is isn't the much more powerful Pentastar with it's remarkably flat torque curve which provides more torque throughout the rpm range, especially at low rpms, it is the WA580 five speed auto transmission.

The previous 42re four speed auto has just the wrong gearing for a Jeep. Too high first gear, way to high O/D fourth and way, way too much gap between 1:1 third and .69:1 O/D fourth.

An auto 2012 Rubicon with 4.10's - which are optional now - has about the same rpms at highway speed as the previous model years with 4.88's, and about the same first gear final drive as the previous model years with 5.13's. And that huge gap between third and fourth in the 42re is gone as well.

As far as getting more from the previous 3.8, those who have tried report no substantial gain with intakes, exhausts or programmers. Bolting on a super charge still leaves you with the crappy 42re. The best use of a 2011 is to pull the 3.8 and 42re and put in a Hemi and a 545rfe, or the now possible 5.3 or 6.0 GM LS engines and a 6l80.

BTW, want to improve the steering and handling of any JK? Install an AEV suspension. Reduced body lean, reduced break dive, reduced acceleration squat, improved cornering, improved steering... Oh, and a better ride too.

JPK

I will agree with you about the motor and transmission fixing a lot of the previous JKs short comings. I have not driven one but I was talking to a friend last night who had the new 2012 on a promotional drive for a couple days and he is sold on the new model.

I still would have a hard time purchasing the first model year of a vehicle after any major change (engine and trans), this goes for any manufacturer, most the bugs seem to be with the first year runs.

As for installing an AEV kit, generally you can improve anything with aftermarket parts. Yes the AEV kit is a well designed suspension system, but from the sounds of the OPs intentions he will be leaving the vehicle stock for a good while. A lot of people have a hard time voiding there warranty and spending the cash right after they have bought a 30k+ car.

The same can be said for the FJ... all you have to do is spend money to make it more off road capable.

Not trying to say one is better than the other just trying to put out some usable info beyond saying "buy the jeep" or "buy the FJ".
 

K2ZJ

Explorer
I am sure the new motor makes a big difference, but the motor isn't the whole jeep. I shared what I know about the models I have experience with and most of 2012 is still the same (same steering and suspension).

For that line of thinking you could buy a 3.8 and put a super charger on it and still be money ahead, rather than dropping the coin for a brand new vehicle.

They also did the interior change in 2011, and if you swap out the suspension, as most people who 4 wheel do, then your info is dated. And again the op asked about a 12 because they want a 12, not a used whatever for however much less.

I still would have a hard time purchasing the first model year of a vehicle after any major change (engine and trans), this goes for any manufacturer, most the bugs seem to be with the first year runs.

As for installing an AEV kit, generally you can improve anything with aftermarket parts. Yes the AEV kit is a well designed suspension system, but from the sounds of the OPs intentions he will be leaving the vehicle stock for a good while. A lot of people have a hard time voiding there warranty and spending the cash right after they have bought a 30k+ car.

They waited to put it in the Jeep to work out bugs first. That motor comes in several Chrysler's, different setups for hp and torque, but it has been around for over a year before being put in the Jeep.

I saw somewhere that the 2011-2012 has a higher build quality than the older models. They're stepping up their game.

True! Drive a 2012 and you will see!
 

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