1978 Cherokee Chief Build

soaringeagle

New member
A Dana 300 would be a nice option as well. With the exhaust I always ran both pipes down the passenger side and used the round ford truck style mufflers. That being said I certainly understand wanting to work with what you have. I would love to build and old j truck or maybe even an IH full size pickup, but it's hard to find good ones in Indiana.
 

bobDog

Expedition Leader
A Dana 300 would be a nice option as well. With the exhaust I always ran both pipes down the passenger side and used the round ford truck style mufflers. That being said I certainly understand wanting to work with what you have. I would love to build and old j truck or maybe even an IH full size pickup, but it's hard to find good ones in Indiana.
Man I haven't even seen any IH trucks out here in the PNW in years. and here we don't have a rust problem except right on the coast!
Year ago in Colorado I saw tons of them but not here ever. cool units tho.
 

ttravis5446

Adventurer

bobDog

Expedition Leader
I love old international trucks too. It was a toss up between an IH and an FSJ.

These are two on craigslist I still keep looking at.
http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/3941384826.html

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/3959227944.html
They were so simple...nothing but what you needed and not a thing more....awesome trucks. International Harvester said it all.
Scouts were just an off shoot. I had one once but like a fool, as a young guy I was, I sold it off to get a Ford 3/4 ton.

Duh.
 

soaringeagle

New member
I owned two bother were 345 t18 trucks. One had 16x38x15 tsl's bone stock with minor fender trim it looked like the belonged and that truck was a monster off road. The other was basically stock and has been restored by current owner.

Sorry about the hijack back to the chief build
 

ttravis5446

Adventurer
So while I'm still trying to make up my mind on what to do with the suspension, I figured I'd get started on cleaning up the interior. I was just going to vacuum and wash it but the rear carpet is pretty much toast and the rear panels are pretty damaged from mud and water due to the rear quarters have rust holes in them. So I started stripping the interior down. I can't believe how solid this thing is with the exception on the rear quarters. I did get about 8 or 9 pounds of dirt out of this thing into my shop vac though.
761D36C6-8C3D-43A1-A642-76A877568382-16049-000007B5FDDB5609_zpsf411f6c9.jpg

4FE6D774-DBCD-41B2-8BB5-548453D4302A-16049-000007B5D6B4273B_zpsbfd82210.jpg
 

haminawag

New member
Hi Travis, Nice truck you've got there, but are you sure it's a Cherokee CHIEF?? The Chief wasn't just a trim option, it had the Jeep J-20 3/4 ton axles which were about 4" wider than a regular Cherokee/Wagoneer runnung gear. Spring over axle conversions can be problematic, depending on who did the work, for instance I see that yours doesn't have the steering damper in the front end, that's unsafe. I found a Rough Country 4" suspension lift kit on line NEW for $99.99, with all hardware & front leaf springs including polyurethane bushings, best of all it allowed me to go back to factory steering geometry AND I got to put the steering damper back on. I hope your Cherokee has none of the rust my Wag has. Have fun and keep at it. Ham-in-a-Wag
 

ttravis5446

Adventurer
Hi Travis, Nice truck you've got there, but are you sure it's a Cherokee CHIEF?? The Chief wasn't just a trim option, it had the Jeep J-20 3/4 ton axles which were about 4" wider than a regular Cherokee/Wagoneer runnung gear. Spring over axle conversions can be problematic, depending on who did the work, for instance I see that yours doesn't have the steering damper in the front end, that's unsafe. I found a Rough Country 4" suspension lift kit on line NEW for $99.99, with all hardware

Thanks for the complement on the truck. I think you are a little mixed up on the axles though. From the research I've done, I've found that regular Cherokees have the same narrow track Dana 44 or amc 20(rear) axles that wagoneers from the same year would have. Cherokee chiefs have the widetrack Dana 44 or amc 20 ( rear, later models) that are wider. I've never seen a Dana 60 on a Cherokee from the factory and I don't recall ever seeing a J20 with the quadra trac transfer case from the factory. I could be wrong on that last bit but I've never seen it. I don't recall ever seeing a passenger side offset Dana 60 on any jeep product from the factory.

I agree that the suspension on this truck is pretty sketchy. The lack of steering damper is the least of my worries the way it sits. The goofy rear blocks and not fully seated front u bolts scare me way more. That's way it never goes more than around the block. I'm almost thinking about salvaging the spring over though. The way it sits on the 35"s is starting to grow on me. I might just piece together a high steer kit, finish sorting out the front ubolts, and do the shackle flip on the rear. There's no way I could fit the brand new 35"s on with a 4 inch spring lift and I don't know if I could get enough cash out of them to buy a nice new set of 33" tires. I still need to buy new tires for my f350 before winter and the last set of dura tracks I bought for 20" rims cost me a fortune. So that probably doesn't leave much tire money for this rig.

I think your $99.99 skyjacker kit is probably a typo or someone lost their *** selling that one. Haha.
 

Dr. Marneaus

Station Wagoneer
I know I'm a little late to the party, but on the T-Case info, I've got a bit of experience.

You 'SHOULD' be fine running a D20 with your stock offset axle if you decide to go that route.I would not go with a D18. Too noisy, and they have weak links, especially on a big heavy truck like this.

So, as mentioned if you are rebuilding your TH400, you'll need a D20 output shaft, and the spacer that goes between the transmission and the t-case. Likely would be your best bed to get a whole transmission from a D20 rig, and rebuild that.

As far as the offset axle is concerned, heres what I can tell you. There are a few different options out there for passenger side drop. You Narrow track q-trac axles, narrow track D20 axles, and "all" wide track axles.

If you had a NT rig, wagoneer or cherokee, your rear axle was determined by the t-case you had. Q-track = offset, D20 = centered (or mostly centered, my 73 axle wasnt fully centered because of the gas tank). If you had a WT rig, it came with the same axle, regardless of D20 or Q-Trac. There is a reason for this.

On an NT q-trac axle, the driver side tube on the axle is the same as on a WT axle. The difference is on a WT axle, the passenger side is 2" longer. they didnt add 1" to each side, they added 2" to the right side. What this means, is in order to center the wheel mounting sufaces, they shifted the axle 1" to the driver side. So, if the driver side tube is the same length, and they shifter the whole thing 1" to the left, that means your Diff comes 1" closer to the center.

This, the WT axles are only offset by about 4.5" If memory serves. This is only about 1.5" more than a stock D20 rear axle (at least in the case of my 73, I'm not positive if the 74+ rear D44's for D20's were still offset, but i think so). They came from the factory with the same 4.5" offset for any WT FSJ, regardless of transfer case. The NT Q-trac axles have the most offset. This is because the passenger side tube is 2" shorter than the WT axles and the other side is the same, so it's got an extra inch of offset when centered under the truck, about 5.5" from center, IIRC.

So, have no fear about running a D20 with a WT offset axle, its not offset as far as you think, and thats the way it would have come from the factory.

Just so you know, I'm running (due to stupidity) a NT Q-Trac axle under my rig, with a D20. Its got something stupid like 5.5" of offset, my driveline angle is awful. However, several folks on IFSJA have done this swap, and everything is fine. I was initially worried because not only is it offset so far, but I'm lifted 4" which adds to the issue. I can cruise at 75mph on the highway with no vibes. The ONLY time I get vibes because of the stupid compound angle is when I'm doing 70ish and put the pedal to the floor. I'm assuming its because the engine shifts under heavy load and exacerbates the angle. Even then, the vibes are not bad at all.



I'll simply carry spare u joints, and inspect my u joints once a year, rather than never.

Hope that helps. Basically I'm saying I'm running more offset, with the same lift you are hoping to have, and it's fine. There are other folks on IFSJA that have swapped D20's under their QT Cherokees and whatnot, and they are fine as well.
 

Dr. Marneaus

Station Wagoneer
So while I'm still trying to make up my mind on what to do with the suspension, I figured I'd get started on cleaning up the interior. I was just going to vacuum and wash it but the rear carpet is pretty much toast and the rear panels are pretty damaged from mud and water due to the rear quarters have rust holes in them. So I started stripping the interior down. I can't believe how solid this thing is with the exception on the rear quarters. I did get about 8 or 9 pounds of dirt out of this thing into my shop vac though.
761D36C6-8C3D-43A1-A642-76A877568382-16049-000007B5FDDB5609_zpsf411f6c9.jpg

4FE6D774-DBCD-41B2-8BB5-548453D4302A-16049-000007B5D6B4273B_zpsbfd82210.jpg

A few more things for ya. These are just suggestions, and if you wanna tell me to shove off and mind my own business, or ignore them completely, feel free haha. Just wanted to share some experience with you.

Since you have the carpet and the mat out, have you considered doing something to keep it from rusting or getting any issues? The rubber mat is notorious for trapping moisture. I figured I'd bed line the rear interior on mine, but still wanted it to look and feel stock.

I ended up picking up a gallon of Al's Liner, from 4 wheel parts. They make a tan color. And it turns out that the tan is almost an EXACT match for the interior color of our FSJ's 9I believe my exterior color was originally the same as yours, so we have the same interior color).

It came out GREAT. This stuff is tough as nails. Only advice is mix it half at a time if you are rolling it, because it only has a potlife of like 20 minutes. I was only able to use like 1/3rd of the proiduct before it got too hard, and couldnt slop it on as thick as I wanted.
Before:


After (sanding the rust, and shooting it with rust reformer, then lining)


Very slight texture that is not abrasive at all, but you determine how textured you want it by rolling over it as it dries)


What I did for the side panels was use the original ones as a template, and bought some 1/4" Luan plywood at home depot. Cut em out, and they worked perfect. I them covered them with the same liner and just used a bunch of self tapping screws to attach them. They've been great, and havent been damaged by any of the crap i keep in the back. I dont have to worry about the padding/vinyl/cloth ripping on them and as mentioned they match the interior near perfectly.



After all that I built a cargo cover and threw down some generic parts store carpet just to clean it up back there.


Anyway, again, just sharing some ideas and experience that worked out really well for me.

I'll be watching your build as it progresses, I love seeing another FSJ coming along!
 

ttravis5446

Adventurer
So I really haven't done anything with the Cherokee for the last few months. Other projects and work got in the way, but the last project is sold and the Cherokee is safely back in the garage. I was going to do some wrenching on it today, but i woke up to almost a foot of snow and my 80+ year old garage is not the most comfortable place to be. So I'm just going to get my plans straight and get a parts order together.

I did try fiddling with stupid Edelbrock carb a little bit this morning but I'm over that piece of crap. The Howell's TBI kit is definitely in the future for this rig.

Dr marneaus, thanks for the axle info. I'm still undecided on the plan for the trans/ tc. Part of me thinks I should just fix what's in there now, part thinks I should just wait until a t18/d20 FSJ shows up in a local yard and rob all the 4spd conversion parts. I really like the suggestion on what you did to the load are of your wagoneer. I was planning on just regular black bed liner, but I like the way that tan came out.
 

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