12v Cummins vs. 7.3 Power Stroke?

Magilla82

Observer
Looking into a turbo diesel and slide in for my next rig (possibly as soon as next summer). I have it narrowed down to a 98 12v Cummins or a 96-97 Power Stroke... Now, i know everyone has their own truck preference so i'll take all advice with a grain of salt lol. Right now, its me my fiance, our 1.5 yr old daughter, and our 100 lb pooch name Zeus. This is my current rig, great for just me, but not so great for the family.



I love it, i really do... But it is only a regular cab, so only room for 2... And its a 400 gas motor...

Pros for the Dodge: 12v Cummins (need i say more?), big fan of the interior compared to the Ford, coil front suspension, can fit 6 people if needed.
Cons for the Dodge: Extended cab, hard to find, auto tranny will need beefed up or swapped out for manual (would prefer this option)

Pros for Ford: True crew cab, 7.3 is very reliable, easier to find, 6 full sized people fit
Cons for Ford: Gas mileage? Leaf Springs up front, computer programmer for tuning

Either truck will be 4wd, with an 8ft bed, not sure on DRW or SRW yet? I'll most likely be getting a Big Foot (or other full fiberglass slide in). This rig will be used for many road trips, adventures with motorcycles, snowboarding, and normal stuff a pickup is used for so fuel mileage is a factor to me (How does the 7.3 compare to the Cummins mileage wise?). I am not planning on any hardcore wheeling, but we do go out in all seasons and places where 4wd is needed. I love the Dodge for easy working/massaging more power, all mechanical, front suspension... But i love the Ford for being a true crew cab, as our family will not outgrow it... I know i just need to go check them both out side by side and see what works best for us, but figured i would ask your thoughts? At what age would children (we are planning on having more) outgrow an extended cab Dodge? I haven't been in one for quite some time, so i forget how much room is back there. Whichever route we go needs to be reliable as i would like it to last/stay in the family for 10-15 years.

Yes, ideally i would just pick up a crew cab Power Stroke, and throw a Cummins in it... But after searching what that swap would cost, its just not feasible or reasonable. For everyone that has stayed on track and given input, thank you i appreciate it :smiley_drive:
 

UHAULER

Explorer
I would go and look at and drive the models of trucks you are interested in.Personal preference is a very big thing when deciding on a vehicle you plan on keeping a long time. I wouldn't buy a truck based on the engine alone. Both the Cummins and 7.3 powerstroke have good records for longevity.

I have an 02 f350 supercab shortbed 7.3 and get between 15-17 mpg, but I would probably be just as happy in a dodge or Chevy. I wouldn't overlook a gas motor. I have found that I don't always like driving a 3/4 -1 ton truck around all of the time so I bought a 91 trooper to run around in and split the driving between the two so fuel milage in the truck isn't as big a factor as it used to be.
 

bfdiesel

Explorer
You can throw comparing mileage out the window, your driving style and final gear ratio will affect it more than which engine it is. Both will blow your old 400M out of the water.
The Dodge will probably cost more as every flat billed kid wants one and you are looking for the Holy Grail, a 98 12v 5speed with the wing doors and even the autos are hard to find in that configuration.
Both have a good aftermarket following. Both have problems that will need looked at eventually. 7.3 power stroke has some plugs in the heads that start to leak fuel after awhile, cummins has the killer dowel pin. The dodge WILL bottom out the stock front end on any bump or dip worth its salt. The Ford has hubs (does not spin the front ujoints constantly) with taper bearings you can grease, costs less than half to rebuild yourself over a unitized hub replacement. Dodge has CAD and unitized hubs(outers spin all the time).
As you mentioned the Ford has a true crewcab (can fit six grown men). You will be at max with you, your wife, a kid and a dog in an extended cab Dodge. You will not fit six teenage boys in the Dodge.
93-94 Fords came with an all mechanical 7.3 IDI turbo diesel if you dont want a computer and want a Ford. Like the cummins they can burn anything oily, "can burn swamp water if you filter it". They are cheap to work on. They are also fairly easy to convert to a cummins later if you really want one. There are also Naturally Asperated ones so make sure it has a turbo if you look and read up on what to look for.
 

redthies

Renaissance Redneck
Wow. This thread has my name written allllll over it:sombrero:

My current rig: '98 Dodge 3500 12v quadcab with NV4500 5spd, 2" levelling kit, 255/85-16 Toyo M55s (6 of them +spare), Southbend clutch, ATS 3 piece exhaust manifold, BD exhaust brake, BD steering brace, 4" MBRP stainless exhaust, Firestone Rideright Airbags, 1000 watt Rockford Fosgate sound system etc etc.

Here it is with the camper on.
image_zps92d160fe.jpg


My previous rig: '97 F350 PSD with built E4OD, 3" Sky Offroad shackle reversal kit, Bilstein 5100s, 315/75-16 Toyo MTs, K&N intake, Firestone Riderights, etc etc. I went through this truck from front to back and replaced or rebuilt every component that even looked remotely worn out.

image_zps953bd252.jpg


To the nuts and bolts of them, I prefer the coil suspension because it rides nicer, and turns MUCH tighter. I prefer the leaf springs for simplicity. Both front ends are Dana 60s, but the clear winner is the Ford version.

For the engines, both have minor issues. The 12v has the KDP (which is really not much of a problem), and oil leaks. The Ford has fuel leaks, and sensors. My pick? The 12v. Transmissions? All will need work to last forever. The Fords ZF5 has clutch issues (in stock form), the E4OD will need a hd rebuild to last, the NV4500 has 5th gear nut issue, and 47RE also will need to be built. Once the issues are addressed, I prefer the Dodge transmissions, but it really is a wash.

Interiors? The room of the Ford, the comfort of the Dodge. It is only my wife, me and 2.25 pooches, so the Dodge works. Throw a few kids in the mix, and the Ford has to get the nod.

Driveability: The Ford is a "faster" truck, but this makes sense in a V8 vs inline 6 world. The Ford is also more "vague" feeling going down the road than the Dodge. I prefer the inline 6 power (it feels like a diesel should), but then I prefer my Ducatis with "L twin" over GSXRs etc and their four cylinders. It's all about torque and power delivery. The Dodge rides much nicer, but with a shackle reversal and a few other mods, the F350 can ride half decently.

There is a ton more I could say, but in your shoes, I would go for the F350 based on the amount of room you will need if you have another kid. If you stay with only one child and one dog, the Dodge wins. I also think the '93-94 idi turbo F350s should be on your radar if you go for the crewcab. I wouldn't put too much emphasis on which transmission you get, if the rest of the truck is solid. They all need a bit of work to hold up, but once gone through, all are fine.

One final thought... Fuel economy is going to be better in the 12 v powered truck. Noticeably better. But driving style can make that a factor, or not.
 

Rot Box

Explorer
I loved our Cummins but we outgrew the quad cab the first time I loaded a car seat.

93-94 Fords came with an all mechanical 7.3 IDI turbo diesel if you dont want a computer and want a Ford. There are also Naturally Asperated ones so make sure it has a turbo if you look and read up on what to look for.

This^ I went the turbo IDI route and haven't looked back. you can read why in my sig if you want. Simple. Reliable and plenty of power and 4 doors.. Aftermarket turbochargers are common used or new if you're mechanically inclined. At this point even the newest OBS Ford is sixteen years old. I'd recommend budgeting a healthy amount for all those nickel and dime things that are bound to pop up when buying a used truck.
 

thedjjack

Dream it build it
I would get a same vintage crewcab ford as your current camper.....slide the camper over....slide the a 12v in and call it awesome....

You could also put a F700 ish frame in too and have a overbuilt rig.....
 

Magilla82

Observer
Red - Thank you for your detailed reply, i truly appreciate it. Both the wife and i are Dodge (moreso a Cummins for me) fan. And honestly the only reason i am considering the Ford is for the larger cab. I had an 06 Super Duty back in my bachelor days and I loved the cab space, hell i loved the whole truck... except for the damned 6.0 = ( Now you say the 12v will be noticeably better on fuel, which i agree with and would prefer, and since you have had both vehicles that I'm looking into, i need numbers lol. I'm not worried about unloaded numbers, but moreso what kind of mileage you get with the camper in. But i also agree with your motor logic, i prefer my RC51's twin as opposed to my numerous I4 Kawi's... Torque is the best result of an engine.

Rot - I did thoroughly read through your build and you did one hell of a job!

I really love that my current rig has a passthrough to the camper, as that is where Zeus mostly stays, i have thought about moving the camper onto a newer truck... But not quite sure that i want to do that, as i would need to cut into the new trucks cab, and it would be a dedicated camper/not allowing me to use a truck for its bed...

As far as transmissions go... I understand that either automatic would need to be rebuilt, however... That could wait until it is truly needed, and then i could swap in a manual tranny into either truck as that would be ideal for me.

Djjack - The wifey would not go for getting the same era truck, as she enjoys the comforts of a newer truck (hell i cant lie, i like the comforts as well) And, swapping onto an F700 is totally out of the question as i dont have the room/tools to build that. Nor do i want such a large rig as the fuel mileage would probably be what i am getting now 7-9 mpg, and that wouldn't allow me to take it out near as often as id like.

Once again, thank you for the replies and please keep them coming!
 

Buliwyf

Viking with a Hammer
To swap into your ride. I'd bolt in a Cummins. If you're dropping your camper on an entirely different truck, then I'd go 7.3L Ford.
-
Personally, I'd just drop in any decent small block gas crate engine if that was my ride. Easier, cheaper. You must do a build thread with pics!
 

redthies

Renaissance Redneck
Last trip to your neck of the woods (Grand Junction to Cortez via 141/145) I got +/- 10 mpg in the F350 with 7.3 auto. My camper weighs 2900 dry, so with water, surfboards, genset, clothes, lots of beer etc, I'd put it at 3300 lbs. I haven't done as much distance in the Dodge, but I would say 2-3 mpg better. Not a massive difference, but when you factor my last trip in the 7.3 cost $2000 in fuel, that 20-30% difference buys a lot of fun.

Be thinking about camper weight as well. My 7.3 had a GVW of 9,200, and curb weight of 7,800. That only leaves 1,400 for camper and contents. That's the only reason I went to a dually. The GVW of the Dodge is 11,000 and curb is right around 7,400. I'm now legal, but only just. 2nd gen Dodge 2500s have a GVW of 8,800 so not much room for cargo there either, although more than my Ford had.


Off topic slightly... One of my customers is a racer and runs a GSXr 750. I know he is legit because I have seen on board camera footage of him at Laguna Seca, P.I.R. etc, and his lap times are usually within a couple (as low as 0.6) seconds off track records. He swears by inline Japanese bikes, but I still love my V-twins. I said I would forego another Ducati if he could find me a RC51 for a track bike.
 
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Magilla82

Observer
Yeah, i was thinking a 12v would get around 13-14 and that would be double the mileage that im currently at, probably doubles the power that i have too lol. And i bet i could go another mile per gallon or two if i looked into a pop up model such as an Alaskan... Hmmm... Obviously i know its all about how we use the right skinny pedal as well lol. I have been thinking about camper weight as well, and thats one reason why i like the fiberglass shells... But that debate will be for another day and forum lol.

No doubt about racing an I4 as opposed to a twin... On the track, i want an I4, i used to race an 05 zx6r and then an 08 zx10r (stupid fast). Anywhere else, i want the torque of a twin, the exhaust music is also very intoxicating lol.
 

locrwln

Expedition Leader
If you are thinking of a larger camper, I would recommend a dually. Also, if you are willing to move up to a 24v, Cummins, my buddy has a great one for sale.
http://reno.craigslist.org/cto/4175530598.html

I had an '02 PSD, 6spd, SRW with a Lance 10' camper. I put around 50k miles on that combo and ran from Prudoe Bay to the tip of Baja and everything in the west. It was a great set up, but if the road was a little rough, the combo would start swaying and it could get exhausting on long drives. Mine had the "camper package", airbags and Rancho 9000x's all the way around and it would still sway.


I wouldn't pass up a 7.3 superduty either, much better truck IMHO than the OBS 7.3's and are sometimes a better price because there were so many more made.

Jack
 

Ccceric

New member
We have had many cummins pick ups, and currently have 3cr 5.9s and a 95 12v. I also have a 01 psd. I will tell you the 95 ctd gets better fuel mileage than all of them. We have seen up to 24 mpg out of that truck, it has the nv4500. The cr cummins don't get the fuel mileage, and are not as good of engines as the old ones. They run great' but we have had some reliability issues. The psd has a mere 101k on it currently, and all I have to say about it is; it has some fuel leaks, a small oil leak, and it is terrible to start in the cold. You epwill see I don't live all that far from the op, and the ford starts nothing like a ctd. I have started a ctd at -4f by turning the key and starting it, the psd requires strong batteries and multiple cycles of the glow plugs to get it to run. Other than that, and the fact it turns like the titanic, I like the ford. If you want a truck that will start easily in the winter, will turn tighter than the average barge, and will get great fuel mileage get a dodge. If you have patientence, and need a real back seat get the ford.
 

Maverick1701

Adventurer
I am a hardcore powerstroke guy (owned two OBS 7.3s) but you can't beat a cummins....they are pretty awesome motors!

Either way....you can't go wrong.
 

surlydiesel

Adventurer
Having owned 2 OBS Powerstrokes, both Crewcabs and an 01 cummins Club Cab 2500 Dodge shorbed 5spd, I would vote for a 99-03 7.3 crewcab dually.

I'll start with my Dodge experience. Great gas milage, comfy seats, great turning radius, plenty of space for me and a few friends for short distances. This was not a mechanical motor obviously and I had to replace the fuel pump and sold it before I lost the injection pump. I didn't want to pay for that repair...that is not a worry of yours. My biggest gripe was the front end. I spent lots of time, some money trying to get rid of the "wandering" feeling and even with an upgraded trackbar and other parts, never quite got it right. That and the fear of a 2000 dollar injection pump repair sent me back to Ford.

With the OBS trucks, the most expensive and time consuming repair is the oil pan. They rot out in Rust prone areas and the damn motor needs to be lifted out to do it right. Otherwise, I had great luck with both my Fords with the Powerstroke motor. I would carry a CPS sensor in the glove box, lost one between the two trucks but never found myself stranded like the Dodge did with the fuel pump (shame on me for not reading up on that common problem and installing a fuel pressure gauge and replacing the pump early with an aftermarket unit). Yes the leaf springs don't let you turn as sharply, the OBS trucks ride like hay wagons unless they are full of hay up to the roof or you put on a reverse shackle kit, had one in my second truck, rode fine for me. The cab space is tremendous and the 2 back windows that open are really great. You can't fit adults in the back of the dodge for long drives, I guess you could but I don't feel like I would be comfortable back there for 6 hours. I always got between 16-19 unloaded in my Fords and no less than 14 towing. I was easy on the skinny pedal and only had a chip in the first Ford. I left the computer stock in the second truck, but I did do an intake and downpipe to help the truck breath. The airboxes on the old 7.3's aren't great and the crushed downpipes are a drag too. Anyway, I would look for a 99-03 Crewcab Dually. You'll have a great motor, better stock flywheel on the manual trans, large cab space, more "modern" cab than on an OBS truck and plenty of back seat space for anything really.

Completely off topic, for the premium price that you will pay for one of these trucks 20,000.00 for a clean one, I really feel like you could buy a "newer" gas truck and do just fine. Locally we have a 2009 F350 Crew Cab, 5.4 motor with 35,000 miles on it, 4X4 with a Manual for 27,000.00. I'd really think long and hard about that truck before I bought another OBS truck. You really will find yourself constantly tinkering with small stuff on a truck that old. You know that, you already have an awesome old truck...

Finally, I like the idea of moving your box onto an old 70's Crewcab Ford with a Cummins Swap and a Kingpin Dana 60. That seems the most logical and fitting.

-jorge
 

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