1/2 Ton vs 3/4 Ton for Family Adventures?

[curtis73]

I've thought about trying to find a relatively low miles 7.3 powerstroke and just driving that but I'm afraid that the leaf sprung suspension will be too uncomfortable for the family, especially if we're running a lighter load. I know some people swap the axles on there so they can run the 05+ suspension but I don't have the means to do it myself and I feel like the idea of throwing that kind of money into a 20+ year old truck is not the best idea. In an ideal world, I'd keep this purchase for 15+ years but I also recognize that I drive so little now that it would probably take that long just to break even on the fuel over a 7.3 gas f-250. I do like the idea of additional clearance of the 3/4 ton trucks over something like the f-150.

In 2000 I bought a 95 F250 powerstroke with 60k for $10k. I lived in a travel trailer full time, so for the next 7 years I put another 100k on it, almost all of it towing 10k lbs. My wife at the time smacked it up when she sideswiped a parking bollard, someone rear ended me and bent the bumper, and it was broken into once and had the radio stolen. (why on earth anyone would have stolen a factory AM/FM deck is beyond me). Overall, I collected $3400 in insurance checks and never got it fixed. I sold it at 164k for $7100, so I made money on it. The guy who bought it lived in NV. He put new body panels on it and drove it almost never. Just about 3 years ago it popped up for sale with 180k miles and he sold it for $15,700. Edit... he was asking $15.7k and it sold within about a day, so not sure what the actual selling price was.

I only mention that story to demonstrate how a "low" mileage example can bring stoopid money. I would love to have another 7.3L, but you're right... it's just randomly inflated in price on an old vehicle. My sweet spot for diesels is pre-DPF but after they got too complicated, which (for my personal taste) narrows that field down to exactly one engine - an 05-07 Duramax LLY/LBZ. The last years of the 24v Cummins (98.5-07) were fine brutes, but they absolutely ate transmissions (I used to run transmission repair shops) and didn't score very high in the noise and vibes department. They also tend to carry a hefty "dodge tax," or as we in Texas used to call it, the "mullet tax." The 6.0L Powerstrokes of those years can be a decent bet if someone else footed the bill for the major repairs. As someone else mentioned, you have to take the cab off the frame to do most of the repairs on them. EGR coolers, oil coolers, head gaskets... all were problems. If properly fixed, it's a great engine, and you get to possibly take advantage of its poor reputation for your wallet. The 6.4 suffered from many of the same problems, but they are off my radar because of DPFs. An example would by a 6.0L 'stroke van that my friend bought from the state (PA). It was a road construction crew transport. It had the major overhaul/bulletproofing done at 80k, and it was still going strong with 290k when my buddy bought it for $2300 from a surplus auction.

Long story short... if I were looking for a diesel truck right now and I had the money, I would be looking for LBZ/LLY. The earlier (up to 04) LB7s aren't bad, but they were the ones with the poor injectors. As long as they've been done by someone else's wallet, great engine. They don't have quite the refinement and lack the VVT turbo you get in the LBZ/LLY, but still nice trucks. Many of the LBZ/LLY also got the upgraded 6 speed Allison which (in my opinion) is a far smoother, nicer box with much better tow/haul programming. LMM started in 08 and has the DPF. Dad's 08 is super smooth and quiet, but I'm a fan of simplicity and MPG.

 

[curtis73]

None of the 3/4 tons will ride smoothly. The newer trucks like to fool you into thinking they're smooth, but it's mostly perception. Dad's 04 3/4 ton is pretty quiet inside and they do a good job of isolating sound and bump noise, but they still ride like a buckboard being pulled by a mule over a rocky path. Taking his 04 up through the mountain road to get to camp is 3 miles of putting your chiropractor on speed dial. My Ranger feels like a Coupe DeVille compared to his 3/4. I suppose you could swap in some half-ton springs or take a leaf out, but that kinda defeats the main purpose of having a 3/4 ton in the first place.

I suppose a person could take out a few leaves and replace suspension capacity with airbags to get a smoother-riding 3/4. I've actually done that before for a customer with an Avalanche.

 

[B^2]

None of the 3/4 tons will ride smoothly. The newer trucks like to fool you into thinking they're smooth, but it's mostly perception. Dad's 04 3/4 ton is pretty quiet inside and they do a good job of isolating sound and bump noise, but they still ride like a buckboard being pulled by a mule over a rocky path. Taking his 04 up through the mountain road to get to camp is 3 miles of putting your chiropractor on speed dial. My Ranger feels like a Coupe DeVille compared to his 3/4. I suppose you could swap in some half-ton springs or take a leaf out, but that kinda defeats the main purpose of having a 3/4 ton in the first place.

I suppose a person could take out a few leaves and replace suspension capacity with airbags to get a smoother-riding 3/4. I've actually done that before for a customer with an Avalanche.

Part of the reason I like the ram 2500 is that it uses coil springs in the rear unlike the f-250 which uses leafs.

 

[Grassland]

You are driving something now that has what, 30" tires? 31s?
What's the thought behind having an option to run 37s?

Problem with high trim trucks is the generally low payload that goes along with them. XL and base XLT Ford's typically have several hundred pounds more payload than a Lariat trim with same engine/configuration.

Any truck that has suspension tuned to ride decent empty is going to ride like a saggy old mule when you have it loaded to GVWR.
The opposite is also true, got a truck that rides decent with a thousand lbs in the bed and 500# on the hitch towing a trailer is going to be rough and jarring when empty

Unless you want to spend money on custom springs or leaf packs, which is an option.
I had OEM plus a full length add a leaf (2 springs plus overload plus the AAL), and now I have a brand new run of the mill 4 leaf + overload and it rides nicer. That's not even something fancy like a Deaver.

I would stick with a higher payload half ton and a 34ish tire size (285/75R17 etc) Take the front plastic valence off and maybe a 1.5" level and some quality skid plates.

You'll probably still weigh a fair amount less than a stock diesel anything on 33s

 

[B^2]

You are driving something now that has what, 30" tires? 31s?
What's the thought behind having an option to run 37s?

Problem with high trim trucks is the generally low payload that goes along with them. XL and base XLT Ford's typically have several hundred pounds more payload than a Lariat trim with same engine/configuration.

Any truck that has suspension tuned to ride decent empty is going to ride like a saggy old mule when you have it loaded to GVWR.
The opposite is also true, got a truck that rides decent with a thousand lbs in the bed and 500# on the hitch towing a trailer is going to be rough and jarring when empty

Unless you want to spend money on custom springs or leaf packs, which is an option.
I had OEM plus a full length add a leaf (2 springs plus overload plus the AAL), and now I have a brand new run of the mill 4 leaf + overload and it rides nicer. That's not even something fancy like a Deaver.

I would stick with a higher payload half ton and a 34ish tire size (285/75R17 etc) Take the front plastic valence off and maybe a 1.5" level and some quality skid plates.

You'll probably still weigh a fair amount less than a stock diesel anything on 33s

Right now I'm just driving a subaru outback, the colorado I had was on a lease that ended last year. I'm well aware whether it be a 1/2 or 3/4 ton that it's tough to find a truck that does everything great. I'm also thinking that buying something used might be an opportunity to get something that new might be slightly beyond what I'd like to spend.

37's are an option for the increased performance off-road but then again it's probably not necessary. I thought the added clearance would be nice but not sure how important it is.

 

[Deleted member 9101]

None of the 3/4 tons will ride smoothly. The newer trucks like to fool you into thinking they're smooth, but it's mostly perception. Dad's 04 3/4 ton is pretty quiet inside and they do a good job of isolating sound and bump noise, but they still ride like a buckboard being pulled by a mule over a rocky path. Taking his 04 up through the mountain road to get to camp is 3 miles of putting your chiropractor on speed dial. My Ranger feels like a Coupe DeVille compared to his 3/4. I suppose you could swap in some half-ton springs or take a leaf out, but that kinda defeats the main purpose of having a 3/4 ton in the first place.

I suppose a person could take out a few leaves and replace suspension capacity with airbags to get a smoother-riding 3/4. I've actually done that before for a customer with an Avalanche.

I have a 2017 GMC 2500 for a work truck... I am not a fan of driving it empty, the ride is horrible.

 

[Gummee]

1/2 ton and 3/4 ton are usually the same width besides the mirrors and unless OP gets a 5 foot bed, they are about the same length.

...and that's appx 6" wider (total!) than the Toyotas lots of people are driving.

I found an 04 Ram gasser 2500 CCSB with a 5MT. I figured A. I want the manual and B. it's better to have too much truck than not enough. IOW it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

HTH

M

 

[Deleted member 9101]

IOW it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

I keep seeing people post that, but in the last ~15 years I have owned 1/2 ton trucks and never needed anything heavier duty. I'm truly curious as to why people think they'll suddenly be forced to tow a 15k trailer or haul 3k in the bed of their truck.

 

[Gummee]

I keep seeing people post that, but in the last ~15 years I have owned 1/2 ton trucks and never needed anything heavier duty. I'm truly curious as to why people think they'll suddenly be forced to tow a 15k trailer or haul 3k in the bed of their truck.

I *probably* could get by with a 1500, but there's a 600# BMW that I may need to haul and an X3 that may need towing, and etc etc etc Will I use that daily? Nope. If SHTF, I'll definitely need it so why buy twice?

M

 

[Deleted member 9101]

If SHTF, I'll definitely need it so why buy twice?

M

Soooo...are you going to save civilization by towing a heavy trailer?

Also...almost any 1/2 ton truck can haul a 600lb load in the bed while towing a 4500lb SUV....lol.

 

[curtis73]

The beefy-ness of the truck I buy is directly proportional to the number of times I need it to be beefy. My Ranger is rated to tow 3500 (manual... 5000 with auto), and I have towed 7000 with it. It was 5 miles on a country road. If I were towing 7000 every day, I'd probably buy a 3/4.

The RV I lived in was 31' and GVWR of 10k (and likely at or above 10k with all my junk in it). The F250 powerstroke had all the right qualifications, but the thing that killed me was the amount of time I spent driving. Driving that trailer 100 miles to the campground for a week a year? A newer half ton could do that. Driving 600 miles a day three times a week? 3/4 was not enough truck. At the end of the day I would be wasted. It doesn't seem like much, but all the little corrections and hyper-focusing on making sure you're an active participant gets old fast. Needed more rubber on the road. Dually would have been smarter as a full timer.

 

[skrypj]

Ram HD's still have the smaller crew cab from the previous gen Ram 1500. Ram 1500's as well as the GM truck got larger cabs to match Ford in 2019.

1/2 tons don't necessarily ride well offroad and I blame this on swaybars. My F150 will toss and rock and wiggle over fairly small obstacles. Unfortunately there are not a lot of options(basically zero) for sway bar discos. If you could find some disconnects and then some 35's air'd down and you will probably have a pretty smooth ride.

That said, a 3/4 and 1 ton will likely be at least as bad.

 

[skrypj]

Right now I'm just driving a subaru outback, the colorado I had was on a lease that ended last year. I'm well aware whether it be a 1/2 or 3/4 ton that it's tough to find a truck that does everything great. I'm also thinking that buying something used might be an opportunity to get something that new might be slightly beyond what I'd like to spend.

37's are an option for the increased performance off-road but then again it's probably not necessary. I thought the added clearance would be nice but not sure how important it is.

I think this is something you should revisit. I was in the same mind set when I originally started shopping for trucks, but unless you plan on buying a truck that is much older or higher miles, I think you will find that the new prices are pretty appealing.

I bought a brand new 2014 F150 4x4 Lariat. I paid ~43k for it back in 2015. MSRP was almost $55k. I was just looking two days ago to see what it might be worth and was seeing 2013-2014 4x4 lariats at around 90k miles going for mid to high 20's.

I am about ready drive down and see what I can get on trade

 

[Copperhead14]

I have a 2017 Ram 2500 Mega Cab Cummins. I purchased it brand new October of 2016. The mega cab is great, lots of room, rear seats recline.

If you do not need the diesel, the 6.4 is a great engine.

 

[B^2]

In 2000 I bought a 95 F250 powerstroke with 60k for $10k. I lived in a travel trailer full time, so for the next 7 years I put another 100k on it, almost all of it towing 10k lbs. My wife at the time smacked it up when she sideswiped a parking bollard, someone rear ended me and bent the bumper, and it was broken into once and had the radio stolen. (why on earth anyone would have stolen a factory AM/FM deck is beyond me). Overall, I collected $3400 in insurance checks and never got it fixed. I sold it at 164k for $7100, so I made money on it. The guy who bought it lived in NV. He put new body panels on it and drove it almost never. Just about 3 years ago it popped up for sale with 180k miles and he sold it for $15,700. Edit... he was asking $15.7k and it sold within about a day, so not sure what the actual selling price was.

I only mention that story to demonstrate how a "low" mileage example can bring stoopid money. I would love to have another 7.3L, but you're right... it's just randomly inflated in price on an old vehicle. My sweet spot for diesels is pre-DPF but after they got too complicated, which (for my personal taste) narrows that field down to exactly one engine - an 05-07 Duramax LLY/LBZ. The last years of the 24v Cummins (98.5-07) were fine brutes, but they absolutely ate transmissions (I used to run transmission repair shops) and didn't score very high in the noise and vibes department. They also tend to carry a hefty "dodge tax," or as we in Texas used to call it, the "mullet tax." The 6.0L Powerstrokes of those years can be a decent bet if someone else footed the bill for the major repairs. As someone else mentioned, you have to take the cab off the frame to do most of the repairs on them. EGR coolers, oil coolers, head gaskets... all were problems. If properly fixed, it's a great engine, and you get to possibly take advantage of its poor reputation for your wallet. The 6.4 suffered from many of the same problems, but they are off my radar because of DPFs. An example would by a 6.0L 'stroke van that my friend bought from the state (PA). It was a road construction crew transport. It had the major overhaul/bulletproofing done at 80k, and it was still going strong with 290k when my buddy bought it for $2300 from a surplus auction.

Long story short... if I were looking for a diesel truck right now and I had the money, I would be looking for LBZ/LLY. The earlier (up to 04) LB7s aren't bad, but they were the ones with the poor injectors. As long as they've been done by someone else's wallet, great engine. They don't have quite the refinement and lack the VVT turbo you get in the LBZ/LLY, but still nice trucks. Many of the LBZ/LLY also got the upgraded 6 speed Allison which (in my opinion) is a far smoother, nicer box with much better tow/haul programming. LMM started in 08 and has the DPF. Dad's 08 is super smooth and quiet, but I'm a fan of simplicity and MPG.

What was the ride quality like on your 950 f250 power stroke? I'm never driven a truck with front leafs so I'm wondering if I'm going to absolutely hate it. I could get a low miles 99-2002 f-250 7.3L for roughly 20k vs a 6.7 powerstroke would probably run me 40-55k depending on year and trim level.