DIY EarthRoamer (sorta)... newbie questions
- Thread starter ReluctantTraveler
- Start date
rruff
Explorer
If everything is thoroughly bonded together (foam, wood, skins), with inner and outer skins being continuously joined structurally, there is no difference. It's just tough to get a good bond between the skin and core when you are working from a skeleton. When a panel is on the floor or table you can pile concrete blocks on top to apply pressure to the skins.
IdaSHO
IDACAMPER
The entire skin and framework were 100% encapsulated using a couple of white epoxy garage paint kits I happened to have.
The reason? To encapsulate anything wood, in order to mitigate rot in the event moisture finds its way into the walls.
ReluctantTraveler
Active member
That makes perfect sense! Cheers!
I am suggesting that he look at stitch and glue boatbuilding because it makes very good use of epoxy (adhesive) and is different than using only mechanical fasteners.
It would be quite easy to apply the concept of using simple mechanical fasteners to hold things in place while Loctite PL-Premium construction adhesive or epoxy sets up. It would also be quite easy to apply that same capability to making a frame, insulating with rigid insulation and skinning it with thin plywood.
You might want to look over Sam Devlin's website. He has been making good use of stitch and glue techniques on small and large boats for many years. The second edition of his book is supposed to be released soon, and, his first edition is still selling.
Although not a truck camper, you might take a quick look at this stitch and glue teardrop trailer:
You might want to look over this truck camper where " The camper was constructed in similar manner that you would go about building a boat, just upside down. In terms of what makes it unique, essentially everything. From its bead-and-cove cedar construction to its double intersecting elliptical roof radius, down to its 12-part, segmented ring windows with “eyebrow” rain protection, there is nothing standard or expected at all.
In terms of material it’s built entirely out of wood, 2×4’s for the subframe, laminated plywood for the curved roof tresses, and bead and cove cedar to clad it with, and waterproofed with a fiberglass and epoxy." from:
DIY Spotlight: Ian Azariah's 'Mobile Dojo' Wooden Truck Topper
When it comes to truck camper construction, wood gets a bad rap. That's too bad because when it comes to wood nothing is more beautiful. The key to woodwww.truckcamperadventure.com
One doesn't have to put lots of curves into a "stitch and glue" truck-camper. I have been thinking a light and strong insulated rectangular box plus cabover, with interior cabinets/supports glued in to place for additional roof support, would be a useful camper for @ReluctantTraveler + family, and relatively easy to build for someone used to working with wood.
...Mission accomplished! ...
Please keep in mind that my (very strong) suggestion to research stitch and glue boatbuilding is to help ReluctantTraveler wrap his head around what can be done with plywood and modern adhesives.
For example, he could cut strips of plywood in to 2" strips, then use them to build a strong frame by clamping/stitching/screwing and gluing overlapping strips (similar to stick-building, but building the floor/roof/wall frames from overlapping strips rather than simply attaching 2x-lumber together. Three pieces of 3/4" plywood strips, glued together, would allow a piece of 2" rigid foam insulation to fit in the frame. The outside of the frame and the inside of the frame could then be skinned. (Yes, this would have to be done carefully to ensure the skins were also adhered to the foam.)
The above example could be done with skills ReluctantTraveler likely already has.
@ReluctantTraveler , please note that plywood is glued-together-wood, consider the above internal frame, and think of how you could adhere pieces to the outside of the camper to carry everything you want to place on the outside.
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One just needs to be aware of it for it to be a benefit rather than hazard.
Time for some low-cost testing and convincing!
Pick up a tube of Loctite PL-Premium Construction Adhesive at Lowes/Home-Depot/..., follow the instructions and glue some scrap wood together, then try to tear the seams apart. Start with some small strong stuff. Wear eye protection and be make sure to do your testing where any pieces can safely fly. See my earlier post about building the frame out of overlapping strips of plywood. Kind of a step beyond "simple" stick building.
There are many ways you could build your camper, and you could use composite panels. Being concerned about the cabover support is good. If I were to build this camper using the 2" overlapping strips (to build each roof/floor/wall frame, I would make sure to build-in the mattress support (designed for airflow) several inches above the cabover-floor interior-panel to allow airflow under the mattress support and help create the support you are looking for.
When relying on adhesives, remember to think of spreading loads out rather than creating point loads. For example, if I put a screw in to the Sheetrock on a house wall, it wouldn't be capable of holding much, but if I glued a piece of 12" x 12" 3/4" plywood to the Sheetrock, and put a screw in to the plywood, that screw could hold a considerable amount. And if I used a plywood "X" that was 4' on each leg, I could really spread out that screw point load while keeping the weight down by using a plywood "X" rather than a plywood square. I could then reinforce the plywood "X" with a few small plywood panels, bore out the plywood stack, and use epoxy to bond in a nut for a 1" bolt. If I then set a 1" bolt in to the properly adhered "X"+panels+nut, how much do you think I could safely hang off the bolt?
(At least until a minor earthquake crumbled the Sheetrock just next to the adhesive. )Now take the above example, and think of building external-camper-mounts designed to spread out and hold the loads of the items you wish to attach to the camper's exterior, on a camper designed to handle the external-camper-mounts.
Please keep in mind designing your internal cabinets to be glued in as part of the camper design to make use of any addition support/strength they can provide.
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You might find the following interesting:
"The heaviest weight lifted with glue (non-commercially available) is 17.48 tonnes (38,536 lb) and was achieved by Delo (Germany) in Windach, Germany, on 12 July 2019.
The adhesive was specially produced for the record attempt, only 3 g (0.11 oz) were used to keep the truck suspended in the air for one hour."
from:
Heaviest weight lifted with glue (non-commercially available)
The Guinness World Records Official site with ultimate record-breaking facts & achievements. Do you want to set a world record? Are you Officially Amazing?
www.guinnessworldrecords.com
and
"New adhesive world record with truck
On July 12, 2019, Delo lifted a three-axle truck in the air. The 220 t truck-mounted crane used for lifting extended its arm 40 meters into the air. Additional concrete slaps were used to increase the truck's unladen weight of 13 tons to a total of 17.5 tons.
"The great result is an absolutely collaborative success that also shows how we work every day. If we take on a challenge, we will not let it go until we find a solution”, says Sabine Herold, Managing Partner of Delo.
The Numbers Behind the World Record
- Lifted weight: 17.5 t (metric)
- Adhesive quantity: 3 g
- Bonding are: 39.8 cm²
- Applied force (front bonding): 43.1 N/mm²
- Improvement compared to the old record: 7 %"
from:
The world’s strongest adhesive - News and insights for the European coatings industry
Delo has broken the world record for the heaviest weight lifted with glue. The new record is 17.5 tons.
www.european-coatings.com
ITTOG
Well-known member
Thank you very much for the response. I have had a similar thought about preventing/reducing condensation.I used a Frothpal foam kit
Multiple holes drilled, entire steel frame section is filled with foam.
Only reason was an attempt to avoid condensation build up inside the tubing in order to prevent rust/rot.
It has proven effective best I can tell.
Category Page
www.greatstuff.dupont.com
ITTOG
Well-known member
Where was the adhesive used? They are lifting by the axles so I don't see where adhesive is lifting 17.5 tons.You might find the following interesting:
"The heaviest weight lifted with glue (non-commercially available) is 17.48 tonnes (38,536 lb) and was achieved by Delo (Germany) in Windach, Germany, on 12 July 2019.
The adhesive was specially produced for the record attempt, only 3 g (0.11 oz) were used to keep the truck suspended in the air for one hour."
from:
Heaviest weight lifted with glue (non-commercially available)
The Guinness World Records Official site with ultimate record-breaking facts & achievements. Do you want to set a world record? Are you Officially Amazing?
and
"New adhesive world record with truck
On July 12, 2019, Delo lifted a three-axle truck in the air. The 220 t truck-mounted crane used for lifting extended its arm 40 meters into the air. Additional concrete slaps were used to increase the truck's unladen weight of 13 tons to a total of 17.5 tons.
"The great result is an absolutely collaborative success that also shows how we work every day. If we take on a challenge, we will not let it go until we find a solution”, says Sabine Herold, Managing Partner of Delo.
The Numbers Behind the World Record
- Lifted weight: 17.5 t (metric)
- Adhesive quantity: 3 g
- Bonding are: 39.8 cm²
- Applied force (front bonding): 43.1 N/mm²
- Improvement compared to the old record: 7 %"
from:
The world’s strongest adhesive - News and insights for the European coatings industry
Delo has broken the world record for the heaviest weight lifted with glue. The new record is 17.5 tons.
You might find the following interesting:
"The heaviest weight lifted with glue (non-commercially available) is 17.48 tonnes (38,536 lb) and was achieved by Delo (Germany) in Windach, Germany, on 12 July 2019.
The adhesive was specially produced for the record attempt, only 3 g (0.11 oz) were used to keep the truck suspended in the air for one hour."
from:
Heaviest weight lifted with glue (non-commercially available)
The Guinness World Records Official site with ultimate record-breaking facts & achievements. Do you want to set a world record? Are you Officially Amazing?
and
"New adhesive world record with truck
On July 12, 2019, Delo lifted a three-axle truck in the air. The 220 t truck-mounted crane used for lifting extended its arm 40 meters into the air. Additional concrete slaps were used to increase the truck's unladen weight of 13 tons to a total of 17.5 tons.
"The great result is an absolutely collaborative success that also shows how we work every day. If we take on a challenge, we will not let it go until we find a solution”, says Sabine Herold, Managing Partner of Delo.
The Numbers Behind the World Record
- Lifted weight: 17.5 t (metric)
- Adhesive quantity: 3 g
- Bonding are: 39.8 cm²
- Applied force (front bonding): 43.1 N/mm²
- Improvement compared to the old record: 7 %"
from:
The world’s strongest adhesive - News and insights for the European coatings industry
Delo has broken the world record for the heaviest weight lifted with glue. The new record is 17.5 tons.
They supported the truck, but lifted it using the bonded connector, which is shown in the video and photograph at:
Super-strong glue holds 17-tonne truck in the air for one hour
DELO based in Bavaria has set a new record for the heaviest weight lifted with glue (non-commercially available) at a hefty 17.20 tonnes (37,919 lb) on 12 July 2019.
www.guinnessworldrecords.com
ITTOG
Well-known member
Okay, that makes more sense now. That is impressive.They supported the truck, but lifted it using the bonded connector, which is shown in the video and photograph at:
Super-strong glue holds 17-tonne truck in the air for one hour
DELO based in Bavaria has set a new record for the heaviest weight lifted with glue (non-commercially available) at a hefty 17.20 tonnes (37,919 lb) on 12 July 2019.
ReluctantTraveler
Active member
Impressive indeed! My concerns would be more about long term connections for areas under repeated stress. More specifically, if I have high-end mountain bikes attached to a rack held on by adhesive, it failing on a highway is a nightmare scenario for me.
Holding incredibly heavy load for an hour is very impressive! I'm not sure how that translates to lighter lights held statically for long periods of time, though (I'm not an engineer).
Holding incredibly heavy load for an hour is very impressive! I'm not sure how that translates to lighter lights held statically for long periods of time, though (I'm not an engineer).
Imagine the crane, load, and connecting device that would be needed if the boss had said, "That went great! For our next demonstration, we will use an entire tube of this glue!"
... I posted as an indicator of just how impressive adhesives can be. Depending on the truck you choose, you could likely build a bit heavier camper than is truly needed, but, make it with the internal framework you might need to feel comfortable attaching things to the exterior. I appreciate your desire to create a camper you feel will be safe!
I encourage you to continue to explore what people are safely doing with adhesives building boats/campers/..., but, I will mention a couple of other solutions to carrying mountain bikes:
If need be, you could use a receiver-hitch bike-rack, or make/buy/have-fabricated a bumper with a bike-rack/spare-tire-mount/...
Maybe design your camper with a rear-overhang compartment for the bikes with a bed over the bike compartment?