New Defender News

DieselRanger

Well-known member
No the D300 gets torque on demand, other models get front axle disconnect from what I see in the 21MY diagrams. In both models there is a drive disconnect clutch in the right front axle which whispers future weak point to me.

Is it a weak point on vehicles that have a button you push "on demand" to enable 4WD? Why do we actually *need* full time 4WD on a dry road in daily driving? I could argue turning a part of the drivetrain that isn't needed simply wears parts faster, shortening the life of the unnecessary portion of the drivetrain.

If the vehicle detects wheel slip due to rain or ice, you get that torque faster than you would if you stopped to push a button, or you can always select the Grass/Gravel/Snow and Low Traction Launch features manually before you start off.
 

ChasingOurTrunks

Well-known member
4x4 that is engaged by clutches is not exactly new technology, and it's reasonably reliable in the other applications. All of GM vehicles 4x4s with an "Auto" 4x4 setting use a clutch system for example (as far as I know). I was told by the dealer (or it's in the owner's manual, I don't recall) to only use the "Auto" mode in mixed conditions, otherwise use 2x4 or 4x4 to prevent wear on the clutch system. The transfer case clutch can wear prematurely and need servicing, but from what I've heard it's generally pretty good. It is a wear part that eventually needs servicing (any friction-based clutch is), but the interval is typically pretty long.

I have a preference for the "old school" selectable 4x4 system that has a lever on the floor that manually engages the transfer case, like I have in my Jeep or Silverado, but the auto systems work fine.
 

TexasTJ

Climbing Nerd
I have a preference for the "old school" selectable 4x4 system that has a lever on the floor that manually engages the transfer case, like I have in my Jeep or Silverado, but the auto systems work fine.
?THIS #TRUTH I miss the 4x4 knob in my old Series 1 Discos and my Jeep. I do not find a lot of fulfillment in flipping a toggle or taping a touch screen.
 

krick3tt

Adventurer
I remember my early Toyota truck that had manual locking hubs that had to be turned to 'lock in' for 4 wheel drive. Very awkward to use and they had to be engaged periodically to keep them from freezing up if they were not used often.
I really like the 'buttons' (knobs) on my LR3 so I make the decision when to do a particular move, not the vehicle doing it for me. There are a lot of things the vehicle does on its own that are great to have though.
Not really sure I would trade in my LR3 for a newer one but having seen a new Defender sitting next to my LR and talking to the owner sure helped me make the decision to keep my '07 in good shape for as long as possible.
 

JackW

Explorer
True mass production AWD as pioneered by the 1970 Range Rover (although the Jensen Interceptor FF - for Ferguson Four wheel drive system predated it by a few years) was a huge step forward in road safety in all conditions. On rain slick roads or even paved roads with a coating of dust or leaves the AWD system gives you much more control for emergency maneuvers. Audi has built a huge reputation for its AWD systems and proven its worth time and time again. I see the step backward away from a permanent AWD system for a 1.7% gain in fuel economy as a very bad deal.
 

naks

Well-known member
well, this is certainly an improvement! :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

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DieselRanger

Well-known member
True mass production AWD as pioneered by the 1970 Range Rover (although the Jensen Interceptor FF - for Ferguson Four wheel drive system predated it by a few years) was a huge step forward in road safety in all conditions. On rain slick roads or even paved roads with a coating of dust or leaves the AWD system gives you much more control for emergency maneuvers. Audi has built a huge reputation for its AWD systems and proven its worth time and time again. I see the step backward away from a permanent AWD system for a 1.7% gain in fuel economy as a very bad deal.
Audi's AWD system, and Porsche's, and BMW's, and Merc's (save the G-Wagen), are all performance-focused systems designed for on-road handling. Same with Subie's DCCD in the WRX STi, which they fitted only for homolgation purposes, though one could argue that for a rally-inspired vehicle there was utility on soft roads. For pure on-road safety, Volvo's front-drive-till-you-need-the-rear-too Haldex based system is superior - even Audi's Quattro Ultra is now going this route.

Off-road capable SUVs or giant Family Truxters like 'Burbans don't benefit as much from full-time AWD in normal, dry on-road driving in the way that sports or touring vehicles do. For most buyers, it's more for driver confidence than any actual performance benefit in daily driving. As emissions and CAFE regulations tighten you're going to see manufacturers like Land Rover be forced to adopt more technically complicated features like this in order to continue to offer the other features consumers demand. That is, unless they succeed in fully electrifying Jaguar first, which would generate the credits they need to, say, offer a supercharged 575hp Defender SVX which we all know we would buy if they offered it.

I bought my D5 Td6 because of its range, and because I live in Colorado where a 300 mile road trip to the trailhead is nothing - if I could get an extra 50 or 100 miles out of a tank of fuel on the highway, as long as the engagement was quick, then I don't think I'd have a problem. Volvo's was slow - we had an XC70 T6 until recently, and you could tell it was FWD until its Swedish sensibilities finally gave in to your right foot's demands. RWD is more pleasurable to drive on dry roads anyway, and if the front is fully decoupled and with a (lockable) LSD rear diff, turning circles will be tighter and thus more maneuverable in parking lots and other places where currently I have to swing my D5 wide.

But, as others have said, unfortunately there are currently no public plans to bring the D300 to the States, so the argument is likely moot for us here.
 

DieselRanger

Well-known member
I honestly laughed when the suspension fault came up.
I literally did a facepalm. But, the old TIO/TIBO did the trick.

But this is a case in point as to why modern upmarket vehicles almost universally get poor reliability ratings - many ponytailed soccer moms or weekend warrior dads would stop right there, dial up the Land Rover dealer, and demand it get fixed immediately, then they would drop it off two days to a week later without it ever occurring since, and the Land Rover dealer would do some analysis, find nothing, reflash the module so they could say they did something, and give it back - with a ding against their reliability rating.

But some people, like these guys, would just turn it off, turn it back on, the fault would clear, and they'd be on their way. Because what likely happened was a missed message or module handshake on the CANBUS - nothing was really *wrong* with anything.

I have a feeling this is why JLR has enabled SOTA updates. The first case could then be handled over the phone with the dealer, who could queue up an update/reflash for the next time they leave it overnight, or clear the fault code remotely and reassure the driver that everything is fine.
 

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