Convert 2019/20 4x2 Fuso 140 FE (gas) to 4x4?

DzlToy

Explorer
I cannot speak to the quality or durability of Fabco or Marmon Herrington parts, but I would presume they would be of good quality. I can say that utilitarian, medium duty 4x4 conversions do not compete in any way with the world of Ultra4, desert racing or rock bouncing, which is where the parts for the Rebel and Angry Iron conversions were sourced. You may say, "I don't go rock crawling with my FG, so I don't need those parts." Technically, you don't need an FG, as people have walked around the world or ridden around it on bicycles. You are buying capability and confidence when you convert your 2019 FE to 4x4, which is the enquiry of the OP.

What you get when you obtain parts from that world is selection, interchangeability and a massive amount of support in the aftermarket. What is easier to work on in a small town in the middle of nowhere, a Dana 60 and a D300 or a ZF axle and MH transfer case?

Which transfer case is preferable, a four speed Atlas (#125) with ratios ranging from 2.72:1 to 11.70:1, a three speed HERO case (#156) with ratios from 1.33:1 to 5.44:1, options for Power Take Off, 6x6 drive, twin stick and cable or linkage actuation or a 600 POUND Marmon Herrington case with a fixed 1.9 to 1 ratio? Is an Atlas transfer case appropriate for a 33,000 pound truck? Nope, so you pick your battles to win the war.

Which suspension is better for ride comfort and off highway travel, a 5 - 6 inch thick leaf pack designed to carry a heavy load on road, providing near zero articulation, which is key off road to keep your tires in contact with the ground, or a custom designed and built four link suspension with air bags for load leveling and high quality dampers with adjustable rebound and compression damping so you can make your truck ride the way that you want it to ride or tune it for the type of load that you carry and the terrain on which you drive? A 4WD school bus doesn't have many options for suspension tuning, as far I as know.

Would you rather have an Dana 60 axle with a dozen choices for lockers, gear ratios, diff breathers, bash guards, link mounts, WMS, axle trusses, bolt patterns and manual, auto or vacuum hubs or a MH axle with a few ratios and maybe one locker choice if you are lucky? My bet is the Dana 60 is easier to service, has cheaper parts and is familiar to numerous 4x4 shops and nearly any Ford, Chevy or Dodge dealer in North America.

To each his own, but I do not believe that you can compare bog standard COTS parts from Fabco or MH to custom built axles, suspensions and transfer cases designed and built specifically for an overlanding vehicle. Are the MH parts durable? Certainly. Are they required for an NPR, Fuso or K370? Not in my opinion.

Building a truck better in every way than what is required makes it durable, usable and capable. Talk to anyone who has driven a rock buggy or a Toyota truck with a Dual Ultimate setup and you will see what I mean. The fine control that you have with super low gears and the tunability that you have with a Fox or King coilover just cannot be matched by stock parts. You can't crawl a truck in technical or difficult terrain at 35 or 40 to 1. You can however, crawl over almost anything at 100 or 150 to 1, with plenty of time to react, additional stopping power and much more control, making your journey more enjoyable, safer and less taxing on the truck and the environment.

I remember driving a U1250 years ago on and off road and in super crawl. In the latter mode, at very slow speeds, it was amazing. Off road, the suspension was non-existent, I bounced around in the air ride seat like I was riding on a balloon and the cab was loud and uncomfortable, at best. Is a Unimog capable and well built? Sure. Does it meet the needs of the average overlander? Absolutely not. So instead, IMO, put your money into components that perfectly match your needs and desires and you will be much happier. A stock FG is no better at performing the duties of an over lander than a stock K370. They were each built for a purpose and must therefore be thoughtfully and carefully modified for the purposes that we intend to use them for.
 
Dzltoy, you make some good points but keep succumbing to the apples-oranges conundrum.
I (and others) think a 33k gvw K370 DOES require a 600 lb MH transfer case. The combination of exposure to 750 ft-lb in lower gears (not just top gears) and constant gvw ~25-28k lb would, IMHO, cause early failure of a Hero or other TC designed for pickups at the most.
With regards to to gear reduction/crawling speed in heavier vehicles there are solutions; albeit expensive. In the case of FMTV the MH T30 tc is available with 2.47 low range. Apparently it is a bolt-on to the Allison 7 spd with 6.93 1st. With 6.14 axles that’s 102:1 not including torque converter. It costs $25k installed by Acela.
For other vehicles Eaton/Fuller make a~2:1 divorced reduction box to put between trans and tc. I am sure that wouldn’t be cheap either.
The point of this is that drivetrain/gearing upgrades are available for both light and medium/heavy vehicles. It would be ridiculous and foolish to put parts designed for one application in the other. I don’t think you were advocating that but it is hard to be sure.
 
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ericvs

Active member
A friend of mine is converting his FE160 crew cab to a 4x4 on 37s as we speak. Overall he will be doing a 10" lift, which will put it into the range of a FG with a 4" lift, which is the standard lift for the FGs on here

He found a front axle from a 2004 Fuso FG that he is using
Twin stick atlas transfer case with electric actuators will be used
Trackmaster SRW wheels and I am unsure of the tires he will be using.
He will also be moving the rear axle forward about 18" and going with parabolic springs from ATW in the future

Should be really nice since the frame is flat compared to the FG that has the step up near the cab.

I am excited to see the finished product


1594333411848.png
 
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gregmchugh

Observer
I cannot speak to the quality or durability of Fabco or Marmon Herrington parts, but I would presume they would be of good quality. I can say that utilitarian, medium duty 4x4 conversions do not compete in any way with the world of Ultra4, desert racing or rock bouncing, which is where the parts for the Rebel and Angry Iron conversions were sourced. You may say, "I don't go rock crawling with my FG, so I don't need those parts." Technically, you don't need an FG, as people have walked around the world or ridden around it on bicycles. You are buying capability and confidence when you convert your 2019 FE to 4x4, which is the enquiry of the OP.

What you get when you obtain parts from that world is selection, interchangeability and a massive amount of support in the aftermarket. What is easier to work on in a small town in the middle of nowhere, a Dana 60 and a D300 or a ZF axle and MH transfer case?

Which transfer case is preferable, a four speed Atlas (#125) with ratios ranging from 2.72:1 to 11.70:1, a three speed HERO case (#156) with ratios from 1.33:1 to 5.44:1, options for Power Take Off, 6x6 drive, twin stick and cable or linkage actuation or a 600 POUND Marmon Herrington case with a fixed 1.9 to 1 ratio? Is an Atlas transfer case appropriate for a 33,000 pound truck? Nope, so you pick your battles to win the war.

Which suspension is better for ride comfort and off highway travel, a 5 - 6 inch thick leaf pack designed to carry a heavy load on road, providing near zero articulation, which is key off road to keep your tires in contact with the ground, or a custom designed and built four link suspension with air bags for load leveling and high quality dampers with adjustable rebound and compression damping so you can make your truck ride the way that you want it to ride or tune it for the type of load that you carry and the terrain on which you drive? A 4WD school bus doesn't have many options for suspension tuning, as far I as know.

Would you rather have an Dana 60 axle with a dozen choices for lockers, gear ratios, diff breathers, bash guards, link mounts, WMS, axle trusses, bolt patterns and manual, auto or vacuum hubs or a MH axle with a few ratios and maybe one locker choice if you are lucky? My bet is the Dana 60 is easier to service, has cheaper parts and is familiar to numerous 4x4 shops and nearly any Ford, Chevy or Dodge dealer in North America.

To each his own, but I do not believe that you can compare bog standard COTS parts from Fabco or MH to custom built axles, suspensions and transfer cases designed and built specifically for an overlanding vehicle. Are the MH parts durable? Certainly. Are they required for an NPR, Fuso or K370? Not in my opinion.

Building a truck better in every way than what is required makes it durable, usable and capable. Talk to anyone who has driven a rock buggy or a Toyota truck with a Dual Ultimate setup and you will see what I mean. The fine control that you have with super low gears and the tunability that you have with a Fox or King coilover just cannot be matched by stock parts. You can't crawl a truck in technical or difficult terrain at 35 or 40 to 1. You can however, crawl over almost anything at 100 or 150 to 1, with plenty of time to react, additional stopping power and much more control, making your journey more enjoyable, safer and less taxing on the truck and the environment.

I remember driving a U1250 years ago on and off road and in super crawl. In the latter mode, at very slow speeds, it was amazing. Off road, the suspension was non-existent, I bounced around in the air ride seat like I was riding on a balloon and the cab was loud and uncomfortable, at best. Is a Unimog capable and well built? Sure. Does it meet the needs of the average overlander? Absolutely not. So instead, IMO, put your money into components that perfectly match your needs and desires and you will be much happier. A stock FG is no better at performing the duties of an over lander than a stock K370. They were each built for a purpose and must therefore be thoughtfully and carefully modified for the purposes that we intend to use them for.

Okay, you didn’t answer my question on what parts would be higher quality alternatives to what Tulsa Truck used on our K-370 conversion with a GVWR of 33,000 lb. You did state that Tulsa Truck wasn’t using the highest quality components in your view but didn‘t provide any suggestions for higher quality parts on a larger truck which is what Tulsa Truck specializes in. The typical customer for Tulsa Truck is not the owner of an overlander, it is a commercial truck owner, usually for a oil field application or a pipeline build or similar applications. They don’t want anything exotic in terms of components and don’t need highest performance for desert racing or rock crawling, they want something reliable that can be easily serviced at the Kenworth, Freightliner, International, etc. dealer or other heavy truck repair locations. The parts need to be easy to source and readily available when needed. These are the same things I am looking for since we only travel in the US and Canada, we don’t desert race, and we don’t do any extreme off roading. Other than the Fabco and Marmon Harrington items, Tulsa Truck did add King shocks and Firestone airbags for the front suspension. The rear suspension came with air ride and a locking differential as options from Kenworth. I have not had any issues with getting service for our highly modified Kenworth at any Kenworth dealer so far, they are used to dealing with modified trucks that use industry standard components which is the case with Fabco and Marmon Harrington. As usual, to each his own and I am happy with the way our truck performs as an Expediton Truck for the way we travel.
 

DzlToy

Explorer
I feel like we are pretty far off topic here, but if that truck meets your needs, suits the way that you travel and has proven reliable, then don't change a thing.

Quality is about more than durability or reliability IMO, so maybe I chose the wrong words. If the OP is interested in converted an FE to 4x4, as the title of the thread suggests, then I presume he/she is interested in traveling off road, possibly in terrain that the FE or FG cannot cope with.

In this case, selectable lockers, multiple transfer cases and gear ratio choices, as well as a wide range of wheels and tires, custom axles or drive shafts and on and on, from reputable vendors, would all fall under "purchasing quality components" in my book. There is often a quality to price ratio to consider, as well. Is a $25,000 transfer case 500% better than a $5000 one? Nope. So, why would I choose a truck that required that case or a truck where that was my only option?

If your transfer case is robust and reliable and has a single 1.96:1 ratio and another transfer case is robust and reliable and has three or four ratios, I would purchase the one with multiple ratios, giving myself more options for various situations I may encounter. Bog standard shocks may be reliable, but a King, Fox, Radflo or Reiger damper that is adjustable, is better quality IMO. Every single commercial truck I have driven rides like crap. Therefore, an upgraded or properly tuned suspension would be of better quality. If you are happy with yours, there is no need to upgrade. A 370 isn't the truck for me and likely isn't for the OP, as he is interested in converting an FE to 4WD.

Cheers
 

unirover

Observer
I remember driving a U1250 years ago on and off road and in super crawl. In the latter mode, at very slow speeds, it was amazing. Off road, the suspension was non-existent, I bounced around in the air ride seat like I was riding on a balloon and the cab was loud and uncomfortable, at best. Is a Unimog capable and well built? Sure. Does it meet the needs of the average overlander? Absolutely not. So instead, IMO, put your money into components that perfectly match your needs and desires and you will be much happier. A stock FG is no better at performing the duties of an over lander than a stock K370. They were each built for a purpose and must therefore be thoughtfully and carefully modified for the purposes that we intend to use them for.

Everybody has different priorities, and different vehicles suit different people for all sorts of reasons but If off-roading type overlanding is a priority, than I don't know why a SBU Unimog doesn't meet the needs. In fact it would probably cost less than most conversions discussed and the Unimog would be much better engineered, more reliable and more capable off-road and in harsh conditions. Plus you get an awesome 3 pt suspended bed/platform that accommodates lots of suspension travel and chassis flex and allows for lightweight but strong rear bodies/ habitats. A stock SBU Unimog is a actually designed to go off-road and do most of the things people who like doing off-road oriented overlanding, including being set up for rear habitats, recovery gear, long range off-road driving, extreme temps, etc etc.
 

rohat

New member
Hi folks - new to the forum here (first post) and kinda new to cabover/medium-duty trucks as well. Thanks in advance for any input from the knowledgable folks on these boards! Hoping the folks at Earthcruiser might chime in with some specific info?

Thinking about doing a camper build starting from a 2019/20 Fuso 140 FE cab/chassis (134 inch wheelbase). In the US, this means a gas engine and a 4x2 drivetrain. I’d like to have 4x4 capability, mostly for driving in winter conditions (anyone have experience with a 4x2 Fuso in snow?).

So, I’m curious about the feasibility/cost of a 4x2 to 4x4 conversion on a Fuso and would love to get some input from the folks here - any thoughts?

Through my preliminary searching I see that Earthcruiser appears to make this conversion as part of their overall process of building their newer expedition vehicles, so they’ve shown the feasibility I guess? However I’m as much interested in the overall DIY project as I am in the eventual use of the finished camper for road-trips, so I’d like to build rather than buy, even though the Earthcruisers do look fantastic!

I’d like to get a basic cab/chassis and start from there but it’d be useful to get more details about what I’m getting into, specifically for the 4x4 conversion:

  1. parts availability/cost in the US - I assume parts are available because Earthcruiser must source from somewhere and looks like US-manufactured Allison tranny/GM V8 engine so nothing too exotic right? Other necessary parts such as compatible transfer-case, new axles/SS wheels are also available in the US right?
  2. likelihood of finding an auto-shop capable of doing the work - can this job be done by most competent mechanics or is it highly Fuso-specialized?
  3. need for any major modifications to the drivetrain/chassis - i’m hoping the overall chassis/suspension is similar between US 4x2 models and currently available 4x4 models in the rest of the world? i.e. if I get a 134 inch wheelbase model things should be fairly straightforward? Or not?

For some context, I’m also considering a camper van DIY conversion, e.g. MB Sprinter or Ford Transit - these are $50-65K vehicles (new) with factory 4x4 (and a shell/box). If a new 4x2 Fuso is in the $35-40K range, this “leaves” $10-15K for a 4x4 conversion, which sounds like plenty to me but maybe I’m way off? I’d also need to fabricate a box for the Fuso but that sounds like a fun project!

Just trying to get a feel for the Fuso 4x2 to 4x4 conversion feasibility/ballpark cost. One option is to get the 4x2, make the camper and try it out - maybe I can get by without 4x4? But, would like to avoid getting a 4x2, making the camper and then finding it impossible to convert to 4x4 down the road if it turned out I needed it.

Eager to hear your thoughts!

Cheers
Mr M
Mr. M, you are exactly where I am at in this dilemma. Want cabover, prefer 4x4, looking at Transit, looking at 2x4 to 4x4 conversion etc etc. Everyone points to Fuso BUT along with them pulling out of NA I found it unanimous amongst the heavy truck mechanics I spoke to when I asked them what they thought of Fuso, "DON'T BUY IT" seemed to be the resounding answer sighting they can't get parts and when they can they are expensive. "The last three Fuso's I had in the shop were a pain in the ass for parts and price" This is contrary to the reputation of world wide distribution, dependable etc etc. I see on this forum. I actually found a 4x4 Fuso with low mileage but now have backed off given the above reasons and do I really want to invest in a vehicle that may not be supported in the future???
Converting a Hino or Isuzu seems like "pushing a string" just to much fussing around and cost for a simple guy like me who's not a mechanic. Hino is Toyota which, like you, I trust.
Soooooo, now its Ford transit or F350/550. loses the cabover cool but whatever....
Transit
-looks goofy with small wheels. (not about looks but just saying when dropping a pile of cash you kinda want something nice looking)
-no crewcab which i'd want but can make seats in box.
-no subframe is required.
-its a proven vehicle given all RV build upon them and Ford is available everywhere.

F350
-4 doors.
-big hood.
-4x4 easy peasy.
 

DirtWhiskey

Western Dirt Rat
One solution would be to import a 4x4 crew cab cabover/cab forward, pre 1996, from Europe, Japan or Australia. Hino, Isuzu, Man etc. Isuzu and Hino should have decent parts access in North America. Australian exchange rate is very favorable right now. Shipping will be a challenge but completely doable. Hire a reputable inspection company and pay somebody to do the fees and permits, probably an export company, FOB some NA port. Either drive it home or hire a truck to drop it where you want it to go.
 

C p weinberger

Active member
Having an “orphan/ unique” vehicle sounds easy/ romantic, it sucks. You better want what that orphan provides over something more common pretty badly or the romance will die in your heart very quickly. RHD and you have to special order a lot of parts. Sure it will share parts with other vehicles but you know what? It always seems to need the part you can’t find locally. Been there done that.
 

DirtWhiskey

Western Dirt Rat
Having an “orphan/ unique” vehicle sounds easy/ romantic, it sucks. You better want what that orphan provides over something more common pretty badly or the romance will die in your heart very quickly. RHD and you have to special order a lot of parts. Sure it will share parts with other vehicles but you know what? It always seems to need the part you can’t find locally. Been there done that.

Correct on all of this. But remember "4x4 crew cab cab over" doesn't exist in the USA so they will by definition ALL be orphan/unique.
 

gregmchugh

Observer
Correct on all of this. But remember "4x4 crew cab cab over" doesn't exist in the USA so they will by definition ALL be orphan/unique.

You do have some control over how much of the vehicle is stock and how much is not stock. Converting a GMC/Isuzu cab forward crew cab model to 4x4 would leave most of the vehicle stock and well supported. These are the most popular cab forward trucks so pretty easy to get parts and service.
 

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