Handheld GMRS options?

moose545

Active member
Looking to get a handheld for GMRS use, preferably not a Chinese Baofeng/B-Tech. I know they're good for the money but I'd rather not if I can avoid it.

That said, what are my options that you guys might be using? I had a Midland MXT115 and opted for a MXT275, but decided to skip the wiring everything and just return it and use a handheld. I already have a hardwired HAM - Kenwood TM-D710G. My primary use will be trail talk, close range. If it has the ability to swap antennas for a better rubber ducky later, even better, but it's not a must. One thing I'd like to make sure of is it's ability to be rechargeable, ideally with micro USB on the go and not a 110AC wall charger.
 

BigDaveZJ

Adventurer
GMRS handhelds by rule will not have a removable antenna. The Midland GXT1000's are technically rechargeable, but the included battery pack is garbage, only 700mAh. I ditched the battery pack for 4 rechargeable AA's at like 2100mAh. I recharge my AA's in a micro USB charger and just have 2 sets of batteries per radio. It's a bit cumbersome, but we use them when camping and just swap out the batteries every other day or so.
 

Beowulf

Expedition Leader
I use some hand me down Midland GXTs from my brother. Big Dave is correct. My brother did upgrade to the B-Tech. They make the midlands seem like toys. You can upgrade the antenna and the battery pack is great.

I plan on sticking with the Midlands for a while, but if anything happens to them, I will instantly buy the B-tech. Just wish there was another source for ones like the B-techs.
 
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moose545

Active member
Yeah the Midlands or Motorolas seem the best bet, either that or go for the B-Tech. Reading a lot of regulations and things on Part 90, 95, and 97 devices, I learned that all FRS radios are only 0.5W and must have the fixed antenna. GMRS the antenna can be swapped and most handhelds are up to 2W I think, but usually have a fixed antenna due to the fact their typically sold as walkie-talkies, and frequencies are pre-programmed and cannot be changed. That just leaves radios like the BTech or Baofengs to modify and tweak, which is not in compliance with the FCC ofcourse. And lastly, I'm assuming a radio like the ICOM ID-31A could be used, but while it does cover the FRS/GMRS frequencies, you would be breaking the rules and over-powering the frequencies using a higher power radio intended for Amateur/HAM when transmitting.

 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
Yeah the Midlands or Motorolas seem the best bet, either that or go for the B-Tech. Reading a lot of regulations and things on Part 90, 95, and 97 devices, I learned that all FRS radios are only 0.5W and must have the fixed antenna. GMRS the antenna can be swapped and most handhelds are up to 2W I think, but usually have a fixed antenna due to the fact their typically sold as walkie-talkies, and frequencies are pre-programmed and cannot be changed. That just leaves radios like the BTech or Baofengs to modify and tweak, which is not in compliance with the FCC ofcourse. And lastly, I'm assuming a radio like the ICOM ID-31A could be used, but while it does cover the FRS/GMRS frequencies, you would be breaking the rules and over-powering the frequencies using a higher power radio intended for Amateur/HAM when transmitting.
Per the 2017 updates a GMRS handheld can be 0.5W or 5W depending upon which channels you are using and GMRS HTs must have a fixed antenna. FRS radios also must have fixed antennas and will be limited to either 0.5W or 2W depending on channel.


§95.567 FRS transmit power.
Each FRS transmitter type must be designed such that the effective radiated power (ERP) on channels 8 through 14 does not exceed 0.5 Watts and the ERP on channels 1 through 7 and 15 through 22 does not exceed 2.0 Watts.​
§95.1767 GMRS transmitting power limits.
This section contains transmitting power limits for GMRS stations. The maximum transmitting power depends on which channels are being used and the type of station.​
(a) 462/467 MHz main channels. The limits in this paragraph apply to stations transmitting on any of the 462 MHz main channels or any of the 467 MHz main channels. Each GMRS transmitter type must be capable of operating within the allowable power range. GMRS licensees are responsible for ensuring that their GMRS stations operate in compliance with these limits.​
(1) The transmitter output power of mobile, repeater and base stations must not exceed 50 Watts.​
(2) The transmitter output power of fixed stations must not exceed 15 Watts.​
(b) 462 MHz interstitial channels. The effective radiated power (ERP) of mobile, hand-held portable and base stations transmitting on the 462 MHz interstitial channels must not exceed 5 Watts.​
(c) 467 MHz interstitial channels. The effective radiated power (ERP) of hand-held portable units transmitting on the 467 MHz interstitial channels must not exceed 0.5 Watt. Each GMRS transmitter type capable of transmitting on these channels must be designed such that the ERP does not exceed 0.5 Watt.​

§95.1787 GMRS additional requirements.
Each hand-held portable unit transmitter type submitted for certification under this subpart is subject to the rules in this section.​
(a) Digital data transmissions. GMRS hand-held portable units that have the capability to transmit digital data must be designed to meet the following requirements.​
(1) Digital data transmissions must only be initiated by a manual action by the operator, except that GMRS units may automatically respond with location data upon receiving an interrogation request from another GMRS or FRS unit.​
(2) Digital data transmissions must not exceed one second in duration.​
(3) Digital data transmissions must not be sent more frequently than one digital data transmission within a thirty-second period, except that a GMRS unit may automatically respond to more than one interrogation request received within a thirty-second period.​
(4) The antenna must be a non-removable integral part of the GMRS unit.​
(5) GMRS units must not be capable of transmitting digital data on the 467 MHz main channels.​
(b) [Reserved]​
 

moose545

Active member
Thanks Dave, what do they mean by digital data? Like position info? A one second max on transmission time doesn't make sense to me. Also I thought the ICOM HT was dual band for some reason, but it's only 70cm, which I wouldn't go for anyways but it's a moot point now. Just go with a GMRS HT and call it a day.

Sidenote: Reading all the cool capabilities in the new ICOM units with D-Star and GPS, makes me feel like I should reconsider my Kenwood 710G, having more access to talk on D-STAR repeaters would be nice, since I hardly ever get anyone. I trucked up to NJ from VA last Friday and was riding on 146.52 to see if I could catch anyone, total ghost town, nadda. Pretty annoying after the investment I made in the unit. I'm thinking of a switch, to give me more to talk to, and get a HT unit for in the house since I have an apartment and want to get better on HAM, but can't mount a giant base station up past the 4th floor units :ROFLMAO:
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
Digital data being bursts, like packet radio, as opposed to digitally encoded voice. So APRS is OK but DMR/P25/Fusion/D-Star is not.

The one second TX limit is plenty sufficient for reasonably sized packets with a modem that's configured correctly. This is a problem to some extent on amateur packet radio with stations using VOX to key the radio sp they'll have excessively long preambles and tails. They're consuming more network bandwidth than the amount of information (data) would otherwise take.
 
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moose545

Active member
Ahh ok got ya. Not sure what that would even be used for to be useful. What do you think about my HAM rant?! Would going digital make much of a difference you think
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
As far as I know you can do APRS on GMRS, that's what it would be good for. I also think some FRS and GMRS radios do exchange GPS data with a key press already. Not quite a full stand-alone packet radio but like a Mic-E APRS position.

That was originally designed to stuff a small packet on the front or end of a voice transmission, e.g. Mic-E meaning microphone-encode. The point was to shrink a position packet down to as small as it could and each time you pushed the PTT a 300ms packet would preamble your voice. Mic-E packets don't contain call sign data, any telemetry fields or routing fields for the digipeaters. So they aren't legitimate or legal packets by themselves.

Any radio with a Mic-E decoder would hear it and update your position. Anyone just listening might hear a moment of digital sound but I think unless you knew what you were hearing you'd just assume it was squelch noise.
 

moose545

Active member
Ok cool, yeah I've seen that feature and wondered how it worked. Also I see that you can send messages via a packet and communicate then with an app on your cell phone. That seems a little gimmicky, but it's a neat feature if you're a family out on a big piece of property or something.
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
Also I see that you can send messages via a packet and communicate then with an app on your cell phone. That seems a little gimmicky, but it's a neat feature if you're a family out on a big piece of property or something.
Are you talking about APRS? If so then yeah, it's a full packet implementation and messages are one aspect. The app on your phone is client software, which also exists for just about every OS there is.

All of this is like the olden days before GUIs and graphic web, like BBS terminals, text emails, etc. APRS messages can be direct over the air, bounce through digipeaters, if they find an iGate they'll traverse the APRS-IS (Internet network) and get to you anywhere the APRS-IS has been extended. They can even be directed to broad Internet email or cell phone SMS gateways from the APRS-IS.

I don't think doing packet messages just to keep in touch across property would be efficient. Just talk directly. But packet radio itself has several benefits. Much more efficient use of spectrum. What takes you 30 seconds or a couple of minutes to say can be condensed into a message that lasts 1/2 second on the air. Passing numerical or technical data is easier via text, e.g. sending someone GPS coordinates, weather data, whatever has less chance for misunderstanding or transcription errors.

It's also much less prone to interference and noise. A computer is much better about picking out information down further into the noise floor than human ears ever could be so an effective path is longer due to lower signal-to-noise requirements. On HF digital modes (including CW, e.g. Morse Code) will work hundred or thousands of miles with 5 or 20 watts where you'd need 100W or 1,000W to do it with voice.

On VHF and UHF the path is usually more limited by line of sight than noise so the difference isn't as obvious. So it's mostly about more efficient use of bandwidth and less chance for error. Same reason you might send a text over make a phone call, to be honest.
 
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moose545

Active member
Thanks guys, I was just looking for a simple good quality GMRS, with possibly other capabilities which I now know doesn't LEGALLY exist. I got a nice little chewing over on the ham QRZ forums lol, friendly bunch.

I think APRS is really cool, and fun to play with, but actually having a practical use for it such as sending a text over it or having someone see where I am is almost useless to someone like my significant other. I'm certain using something like the Garmin In-reach SOS is much more practical. Having said that, I think the ICOM 4100 might have been a better choice now after the fact, having digital repeaters, that are built-in, and GPS info, but no APRS. I'd still want the dual band/cross-band ability, just not sure. Considering selling it and going for something a little simpler maybe.
 

dreadlocks

Well-known member
I use APRS for rallying with friends/family, just did this last weekend.. I head out, find a camp site w/out any reservations which means I'll be somewhere but who knows where.. they check my location before they leave cell phone service, if any of em really needa reach me they can send a sms via APRS to me in an emergency.. only used that once, when my brother got 2 flat tires trying to find me.. He's now got a Midland Mobile installed in his vehicle so he could just summon me on GMRS since he was close enough, just didnt wanna swing by and pickup a radio before I left.

I'mna be expanding my APRS usage dramatically here soon, I got a high powered digi I'm installing in base camp.. I'm redoing my cabinetry and gonna have a digital control display that's gonna be able to show a map with the locations of all my position trackers, all homebrew.. then I'm putting a PicoAPRS radio on my son's dirt bike pointing him at my location, and I'll carry a nice APRS capable handheld.. the goal being Momma will be able to see where we are, my Son will be able to find where I am if we get seperated, and I'll be able to communicate outside LoS one way to either of em.. like 'Flat tire, gonna be late'..

Ive also got a GMRS Repeater for base camp, that makes handhelds work ************.. someone at base camp can talk to me on my D710 from waay out using a handheld, and kiddos know when they leave range by periodically checking for the squelch tone.
 

moose545

Active member
I use APRS for rallying with friends/family, just did this last weekend.. I head out, find a camp site w/out any reservations which means I'll be somewhere but who knows where.. they check my location before they leave cell phone service, if any of em really needa reach me they can send a sms via APRS to me in an emergency.. only used that once, when my brother got 2 flat tires trying to find me.. He's now got a Midland Mobile installed in his vehicle so he could just summon me on GMRS since he was close enough, just didnt wanna swing by and pickup a radio before I left.

I'mna be expanding my APRS usage dramatically here soon, I got a high powered digi I'm installing in base camp.. I'm redoing my cabinetry and gonna have a digital control display that's gonna be able to show a map with the locations of all my position trackers, all homebrew.. then I'm putting a PicoAPRS radio on my son's dirt bike pointing him at my location, and I'll carry a nice APRS capable handheld.. the goal being Momma will be able to see where we are, my Son will be able to find where I am if we get seperated, and I'll be able to communicate outside LoS one way to either of em.. like 'Flat tire, gonna be late'..

Ive also got a GMRS Repeater for base camp, that makes handhelds work ************.. someone at base camp can talk to me on my D710 from waay out using a handheld, and kiddos know when they leave range by periodically checking for the squelch tone.

Yeah see that's awesome and ideal for your use case for sure. Me either being solo or with another, there's rarely ever anyone else to let know where I'm at, and more practical for the SOS feature the more I think about.
 

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