[SOLVED] Buying an overlander in France

uncompromise

Adventurer
[thanks for all of the responses; we’re taking delivery of a 2004 Mitsubishi Pajero 3.2 DiD next week]

Hi all,

This is a pretty lengthy post, so thanks in advance for anyone who takes the time to read and feed back. What we're looking for is some solid advice on vehicles readily available in France that meet our requirements (of which the most common and most affordable appears to be the Mitsubishi Pajero).

My wife and I relocated to the south of France from the USA last year, and are now in the market for a 4x4. Given that we're still dealing with COVID-19, and our grasp of French is conversational, but not up to the task of interrogating either a private seller or dealer, we're deep in research to find a vehicle that meets our requirements. Most importantly, we are buying in France, and not from any of the better served and more affordable markets such as Germany due to travel restrictions.

We're looking for a stock 4x4 that we can lightly modify as required, although most of our investment would be on fitting out the truck for long trips on and off road with our dog. Having grown up in Australia and owned and driven stock 4x4 for over twenty years (Land Cruiser, Hilux, Patrol and Navara), my experience is that a well designed 4x4 will get you where you want to go without excessive mods. We'd also prefer to spend our money traveling, not on rebuilding what should be a perfectly capable vehicle.

Our intention is to use our base in Siran to travel throughout Europe, the Mediterranean, and eventually WANA (West Asia & North Africa).

BUDGET: €8000 (total including all on-road costs)

REQUIREMENTS:

MUST
  • True four wheel drive
    • Locking front and rear differential (electric or air); OR
    • Limited slip differential
  • Automatic transmission (my wife is still learning to drive manual, and we’re not prepared to either wait for her to be comfortable to buy a truck, or have me doing 100% of the driving)
  • Strong service infrastructure
  • High GVWR
  • Be of maximum dimensions (for fitting in a shipping container)
    • Width (mirror to mirror) 2.2 m
    • Height (ground to roof) 2.0 m (to fit in standard undercover parking)
    • Length (bumper to hitch) 5.9 m
  • Have at least three seats
  • Have Carte Grise and CT
  • Have at least 215 mm of ground clearance
  • Have at least 450 litres of cargo capacity
  • Have driver and passenger airbags
  • Be able to fit on narrow European roads
  • be able to fit all of our gear inside
SHOULD
  • Have consistent maintenance records
  • Be long enough to sleep inside (with or without modification)
  • Have at least five seats
  • Have removable rear seats
  • Be diesel
  • Have a minimum towing capacity of 750 kg (unbraked; 1,500kg braked)
  • Not have carpet
  • Be able to be fitted with third party 4x4 options, including
    • Front and rear bumper
    • Spare wheel hitch
    • Underbody skid and rock protection plates
    • All terrain tires
    • Long range fuel tank
    • Off road suspension (if necessary)
    • Tow hitch
  • Have at least 300mm of ground clearance
  • Have solid fuel economy
COULD
  • Have auxiliary (shore) power
  • Have Webasto diesel heater
  • Have heated seats
  • Have a long range tank
WON’T
  • Be an exotic car marque with limited service and parts availability
  • Have been excessively modified
  • Have been driven hard (extensively off road)
OPTIONS

Given the need for an automatic, there are essentially no pick-ups or vans available, which leaves us with the only option being a full size SUV. Based upon extensive research of the vehicles available in France, and our available budget, it seems like these are our best options
  • Toyota Landcruiser
    • if we can find one within our price range
  • Mitsubishi Pajero
    • although the departure angle leaves much to be desired
  • Nissan Patrol
    • finding one that doesn't have over 300,000 km on the clock is nigh on impossible
  • Jeep Grand Cherokee
    • if we can find one with a Mercedes engine
  • Land Rover Defender 110
    • it will take a miracle to find one in our price range
Unfortunately, I've not read a single decent review of a Range Rover or Discovery from a long term driver, but I'm open to having my mind changed.

Thanks again for taking the time to read this far. If you have any feedback or advice on both the type of vehicle, and where to search (Leboncoin.fr seems to have the most options; hardly anybody listing in France uses AutoScout or Mobile.de), it would be greatly appreciated.
 
Last edited:

C p weinberger

Active member
To be honest For 8,000euros You are lucky to get a reliable passenger vehicle. Maybe France is different but in The Netherlands the registration and insurance alone will be in the thousands For any sizable 4x4. Older 4x4s are getting harder to get. EU countries don’t want them on he roads any more and it’s getting hard to pass emissions/ safety. “You’re not in Kansas anymore Toto”
 

uncompromise

Adventurer
Thanks for the response. We've found a few dozen options including Grand Cherokee, Pajero, and Patrol in our price range in France. Price of registration of any 4x4 in The Netherlands does appear to be egregious!
To be honest For 8,000euros You are lucky to get a reliable passenger vehicle. Maybe France is different but in The Netherlands the registration and insurance alone will be in the thousands For any sizable 4x4. Older 4x4s are getting harder to get. EU countries don’t want them on he roads any more and it’s getting hard to pass emissions/ safety. “You’re not in Kansas anymore Toto”
 

C p weinberger

Active member
I was rethinking my comments yesterday, my son had reminded me France has little in common with The Netherlands regarding vehicles/ costs. Hope you find what your looking for!
 

alanymarce

Well-known member
So, you'll want a petrol engine, assuming that you'll want to drive into cities where diesel is either already banned or will be soon. My comments:
  • Toyota Landcruiser - great vehicle - expensive because of the name. Go anywhere, comfortable on highways. I've driven lots, and we've owned one for a couple of years and driven it throughout Southern and Eastern Africa in it. Older LCs had better agility but they've been made less agile as they've tried to make them more marketable for "non-offroad customers". 70 series are very capable but far less comfortable, 80 series are in my view the best balance, but getting old now and few are available with low Km, 100 and 200 series very good, more recent models becoming less capable in my view, although comfortable.
  • Mitsubishi Pajero - as good as a Land Cruiser (we've owned both and driven both in tough conditions. The Pajero (= Shogun = Montero) is half the price of a LC (at least here). I don't understand the comment on departure angle - when we bought our Montero we looked at approach & departure angles and clearance and the Montero (= Pajero) was actually better than the LC available here when we bought it. More to the point, we've driven our Montero (admittedly with a 50mm lift) in tough conditions, including across the Simpson with no difficulty and so it's very capable.
  • Nissan Patrol - excellent vehicle, more "agricultural" than both the LC and the Pajero. I had one for 2 years in Congo and it was extremely capable, however I wouldn't want to spend a lot of time on autoroutes in one.
  • Jeep Grand Cherokee- good vehicle for highways and cities - I've owned three Jeeps in North America and Europe and they were good for these conditions. You won't see many outside Europe and North America for good reason (to be more accurate, you will see them in cities outside Europe and NA but not in the bundu/outback). I wouldn't consider this a vehicle even close to capable for North Africa (other than in cities).
  • Land Rover Defender 110 - You see very few in Africa and Australia, for good reason. They're just not that reliable - OK if you don't mind spending the time keeping them running - LRs used to be 80% of the 4x4s in Africa, now they're 10% at best.
 

uncompromise

Adventurer
So, you'll want a petrol engine, assuming that you'll want to drive into cities where diesel is either already banned or will be soon. My comments:

Mitsubishi Pajero - as good as a Land Cruiser (we've owned both and driven both in tough conditions. The Pajero (= Shogun = Montero) is half the price of a LC (at least here). I don't understand the comment on departure angle - when we bought our Montero we looked at approach & departure angles and clearance and the Montero (= Pajero) was actually better than the LC available here when we bought it. More to the point, we've driven our Montero (admittedly with a 50mm lift) in tough conditions, including across the Simpson with no difficulty and so it's very capable.

Your entire post was great feedback, and appreciated. After doing more research we pretty quickly dropped Jeep, Patrol went next due to the only options in our budget having way too many miles and being too far from where we are (close to 1000km) to warrant the time to inspect. Landcruiser wasn’t an option, as they were all priced out of our range. Petrol was impossible to find, and after researching where the bans are currently, we determined that diesel would be fine for its intended use over the next few years; also, we frequently travel with bikes, so anywhere the car can’t go, we can park and ride or use public transport). I spent a couple of hours crawling all over, under, and through this Pajero yesterday, then took it for an hour’s on and off road, and pulled the trigger on it (photos from the listing, not my own).

Basic information:

Model: Mitsubishi Pajero III
Engine: 3.2 DiD
Year: 2004
Mileage: 241,000 km

Our intention is to remove the third row seat altogether, replace the assembly for the second row seats so we can remove them more quickly, and then build out the cargo space with a modular camping setup we can bolt in when we need it, and leave in the garage when we don’t.

Will be leaning in heavily to the various Pajero build threads for inspiration.

8F927412-54BC-44D1-9568-70EFC660F10F.jpeg9319AFED-6D86-4B6B-840D-71C8307F992E.jpeg9F73BF51-0EA3-4129-AE3B-4E37E2BDAC1F.jpegA849373B-63AD-4522-8D46-FF81EE418376.jpeg7CC50E93-A788-4F59-9B42-4E6A72F20F21.jpeg
 

tdferrero

Active member
Your entire post was great feedback, and appreciated. After doing more research we pretty quickly dropped Jeep, Patrol went next due to the only options in our budget having way too many miles and being too far from where we are (close to 1000km) to warrant the time to inspect. Landcruiser wasn’t an option, as they were all priced out of our range. Petrol was impossible to find, and after researching where the bans are currently, we determined that diesel would be fine for its intended use over the next few years; also, we frequently travel with bikes, so anywhere the car can’t go, we can park and ride or use public transport). I spent a couple of hours crawling all over, under, and through this Pajero yesterday, then took it for an hour’s on and off road, and pulled the trigger on it (photos from the listing, not my own).

Basic information:

Model: Mitsubishi Pajero III
Engine: 3.2 DiD
Year: 2004
Mileage: 241,000 km

Our intention is to remove the third row seat altogether, replace the assembly for the second row seats so we can remove them more quickly, and then build out the cargo space with a modular camping setup we can bolt in when we need it, and leave in the garage when we don’t.

Will be leaning in heavily to the various Pajero build threads for inspiration.

View attachment 594362View attachment 594363View attachment 594364View attachment 594365View attachment 594366
That's a great purchase and should leave you more than satisfied for all of your needs. Wish the Pajero (Montero) was more popular here in the US.
 

Arjan

Fossil Overlander
Bonjour form the Allier (03) !

Any vehicle in France you buy needs to have a current (max. 6 months old) CT - Controle Technique. Everything you mention point towards a Japanese 4WD and you will have to do a hard search to find what you're looking for in that price range. Having said that, it seems you've bought a Pajero so I'll stop typing.

Have fun and if you'd like to do some Greenlaning here - give a shout.
 

slvyj

Observer
When you add the accessories how much are looking to spend? I've seen some beautiful fully outfitted Defenders or Land-cruisers for around 30,000. The problem they are 20 plus years old diesels, which means good luck driving them in most Western European cities. Also, most are manual, not many automatics here.
 

uncompromise

Adventurer
We intend to go slow and light on the conversion. Other than putting together a recovery kit, we’re going to focus on converting the cargo area for road tripping and camping. We love trekking, so we’re treating the truck as a base camp to get us to the places that four wheels can't go, and will then go on foot from there. While there are plenty of roads in France more suitable for this vehicle, we won't be tackling any serious technical terrain in the immediate period, so we won't need to make any mechanical mods. For road travel in Europe we need to be comfortable, and able to sleep discretely without calling any attention, so the majority of our work will be in putting together a modular sleeping platform and incorporating gear storage. “Necessity is the mother of invention”, and our need, at this point, is to get out into the wilderness, with our camping and backpacking gear and our dog.

Open to any and all suggestions on sleeping and storage; hardest thing to find so far has been any definitive set of measurements for the interior.

Still doing desk research since banks and insurance companies in France don’t move as fast as I had expected; car arrives home on Wednesday.


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uncompromise

Adventurer
When you add the accessories how much are looking to spend? I've seen some beautiful fully outfitted Defenders or Land-cruisers for around 30,000. The problem they are 20 plus years old diesels, which means good luck driving them in most Western European cities. Also, most are manual, not many automatics here.

Given that we’re not building this out for hardcore over landing in the immediate period, we’re not going to be getting anywhere close to $30K. Also, I keep hearing warnings about driving diesels in European cities, but can’t find any evidence that supports the assertion. From what I can see, most of the proposed legislative changes don’t come in for 5-10 years. If you have additional information, please post it in response.


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slvyj

Observer
Given that we’re not building this out for hardcore over landing in the immediate period, we’re not going to be getting anywhere close to $30K. Also, I keep hearing warnings about driving diesels in European cities, but can’t find any evidence that supports the assertion. From what I can see, most of the proposed legislative changes don’t come in for 5-10 years. If you have additional information, please post it in response.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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