New Defender News

soflorovers

Well-known member
Can anyone speak to the California LR Festival that was mentioned; where and when is it? I'm a bit behind the power curve on these things but might like to try and attend this if possible.


Here's the website which can answer your questions. I personally don't know anything other than what is on that website. I believe LK8 is going to be unveiling the new TReK D110 spec there. There's a teaser up on their Instagram account and on my Instagram story
 
Agreed w/ @pskhaat , if you have a smart phone on a GSM network, you are being tracked and depending on what network or social media you are using; your info is being shared.

And not to burst anyone's bubble, but if you have an OBDII vehicle or newer; your vehicle can be tracked w/NAV enabled. Any modern vehicle within the last five years or so is pretty much a data recorder for your life so I wouldn't worry about what JLR is doing because every manufacturer is walking down the same path and have been for years.

OnStar has been used to include Sirius/XM and such for pretty much the last 10 years for the same thing so I wouldn't be thinking JLR is breaking into new avenues on this stuff; if anything they are probably behind the power curve. LOL
 

Al Blue4.6l

Member
Agreed w/ @pskhaat , if you have a smart phone on a GSM network, you are being tracked and depending on what network or social media you are using; your info is being shared.

And not to burst anyone's bubble, but if you have an OBDII vehicle or newer; your vehicle can be tracked w/NAV enabled. Any modern vehicle within the last five years or so is pretty much a data recorder for your life so I wouldn't worry about what JLR is doing because every manufacturer is walking down the same path and have been for years.

OnStar has been used to include Sirius/XM and such for pretty much the last 10 years for the same thing so I wouldn't be thinking JLR is breaking into new avenues on this stuff; if anything they are probably behind the power curve. LOL

this.

the data saved on most modern infotainment centers is shocking. Some systems save it dating back to the build date.
 

DieselRanger

Well-known member
this.

the data saved on most modern infotainment centers is shocking. Some systems save it dating back to the build date.
The difference here is that JLR is choosing to allow the owner to monetize that data, and select what data they monetize. Not sure how they'll pay it (credit against financing? Gas card?) but they've been researching that through their owner focus groups for some time now and kicking concepts around. The owner can also choose to turn off data sharing when they want to and turn it back on, but as you say modern vehicles all have black boxes, and some have been subpoena'd in insurance cases as well as criminal cases so it's unlikely the owner can fully turn off data recording.

However, if you use a smartphone and any kind of digital driving assistant from the Big Three (i.e., Apple, Google, Amazon), you have automatically consented to allowing them to collect and monetize pretty much the same data minus vehicle telematics - and with over 80 separate computing modules on board there's a lot of data there to monetize.
 
The difference here is that JLR is choosing to allow the owner to monetize that data, and select what data they monetize. Not sure how they'll pay it (credit against financing? Gas card?) but they've been researching that through their owner focus groups for some time now and kicking concepts around. The owner can also choose to turn off data sharing when they want to and turn it back on, but as you say modern vehicles all have black boxes, and some have been subpoena'd in insurance cases as well as criminal cases so it's unlikely the owner can fully turn off data recording.

However, if you use a smartphone and any kind of digital driving assistant from the Big Three (i.e., Apple, Google, Amazon), you have automatically consented to allowing them to collect and monetize pretty much the same data minus vehicle telematics - and with over 80 separate computing modules on board there's a lot of data there to monetize.

Yep, what he said!
 

mpinco

Expedition Leader
For the latest incarnations of vehicles, "Always-On" is always-on, even when the vehicle is not running and unattended. As noted the communications subsystem has its own literal smartphone and battery. Which was my point on surveillance and data collection. The "3rd-parties" will use that data to identify you and monetize your behavior. As already implemented prices can be adjusted based on your previous history and location. Argh.

I will differ on most ODBII vehicles equipped with navigation. Those vehicles did not have 2-way comm so had no way to upload your data. Now, they may access basic metrics during dealer visits but no where near what JLR has enabled with their partnership with Blackberry and Amazon. Wouldn't be surprised to read they are listening to all your conversations, ala Alexa. In addition cloud connectivity / virtualization is not secure.

JLR has definitely jumped into the technology race with all feet and hands. We knew that when the made mechanical design teams redundant and added IT teams. On one hand this makes diagnostics/support by the dealer more seamless in that they have access to your vehicle 24/7/365 where ever you are. The downside is that the complexity of the overall product just jumped and likely precludes the owner from performing maintenance. In fact that 'maintenance' can now be monitored by JLR. Long term you remain tethered to JLR as a revenue stream.

Edit add: Yup, Pivi Pro includes voice activation/listening to your conversations.
 
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DieselRanger

Well-known member
For the latest incarnations of vehicles, "Always-On" is always-on, even when the vehicle is not running and unattended. As noted the communications subsystem has its own literal smartphone and battery. Which was my point on surveillance and data collection. The "3rd-parties" will use that data to identify you and monetize your behavior. As already implemented prices can be adjusted based on your previous history and location. Argh.

I will differ on most ODBII vehicles equipped with navigation. Those vehicles did not have 2-way comm so had no way to upload your data. Now, they may access basic metrics during dealer visits but no where near what JLR has enabled with their partnership with Blackberry and Amazon. Wouldn't be surprised to read they are listening to all your conversations, ala Alexa. In addition cloud connectivity / virtualization is not secure.

JLR has definitely jumped into the technology race with all feet and hands. We knew that when the made mechanical design teams redundant and added IT teams. On one hand this makes diagnostics/support by the dealer more seamless in that they have access to your vehicle 24/7/365 where ever you are. The downside is that the complexity of the overall product just jumped and likely precludes the owner from performing maintenance. In fact that 'maintenance' can now be monitored by JLR. Long term you remain tethered to JLR as a revenue stream.

Edit add: Yup, Pivi Pro includes voice activation/listening to your conversations.
But in Tesla's this is somehow a beneficial feature. Your smartphone has been doing it for years.

As someone who works in "big data" (I hate that term) and adjacent communications fields, here is the only comfort I can offer:

Every internet connected voice activated device is listening to its environment all the time. You go to airports, and there are signs stating, "this premises under constant video and audio surveillance." Every smartphone everywhere can very simply be remotely converted into a listening device, even when it is "off," unless you have one where you can still remove the battery, so you are under constant "surveillance." Your work computer is likely also being surveilled in that every action you take is available for review when desired. You implicitly consent to monitoring simply by using it.

But here's the thing. The millions of smartphones and vehicles and potted plants at airports and all the other things that are recording you literally all the time, are adding your personal information into a massive data ocean, on which you bob like a tiny cork. Or if you like, your data is one needle being dumped into a massive warehouse of needles. For those concerned about the surveillance state, well, be content that for now, for some entity to target you specifically, they need to a) have a reason to target you specifically, and b) have the means to access and then analyze that data ocean for your characteristics personally. Right now, governments (at least free Western governments) have both laws that prevent this and a lack of funding to do it even if laws permitted. Far from being anonymized, you're more like a zebra in a herd of zebras, your stripes are unique but amongst the constantly moving background of other zebras, it's all black and white to a predator. We can get into all the conspiracy theories and what-ifs about collecting broad information about certain groups of "undesirables" - or, "deplorables" if you prefer, but I'd prefer not to, because that's what the 2nd Amendment is for in the US and there's another thread on this forum and many others for that.

At least JLR is recognizing that the information they can collect is *your* information, and by agreeing to allow you to sell it to them for real money, then they imply they are *not* selling it without your consent. This would actually support California opt-in laws and others that are coming, which require companies who want your data to ask you to opt in rather than opt out.

If you still don't like it, don't have a cell phone, don't have internet service, and pull the SIM cards from your Defender. And make sure you have lots of tin foil for hats.

What I will say, is that much like the continuous monitoring of modern aircraft jet engines in flight, monitoring vehicle telematics in real time will lead to more reliable vehicles, because automakers will get better information than your badly-imitated "skreeeeEEEEETHONK" sound you use to tell your service advisor what happened that time all the warning lights came on and then disappeared after you pulled over and restarted your engine, which they "investigate" and tell you they couldn't reproduce the problem, and charge you a $100 diagnostic fee.

This is also paving the way for V2X connectivity, where vehicles and infrastructure are sharing information about their status with each other to allow for better traffic management, including avoiding deadly pileups like they had in Pennsylvania last week.

So, hot tip: invest in anything related to 5G, low-earth orbit satellite communication, and V2X connectivity, because that is our collective future, at least until the next mega-solar flare nukes our entire electrical and data grid worldwide, sending us back to the Stone age.
 

mpinco

Expedition Leader
My point was that JLR's new 'partners' are Blackberry and Amazon enabled by on-board always-on data sharing. As for "This would actually support California opt-in laws" the legislation is actually opt-in by default. (How Big Tech is trying to shape California’s landmark privacy law). Surveillance and selling of your data will continue unimpeded.

The issue for JLR is that electrification is commoditization. The technology is shared across many manufacturers and the number of vehicle manufacturers is actually increasing. The code base is the same, only the 'skin' is different. I get that they have to jump into the race but just be aware that the end point is very similar to smartphones. There is basically only 2 smartphones on the market.
 
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great explanation @DieselRanger

The OBDii comment was more of a passive collector meaning they have ways of pulling the info off the car post activity and use that data but it has to be a direct download.

All that other stuff is spot on and although we (US) have constitutional laws; nobody else abroad abide by that stuff and most of time I am sure we are not either.

Its the age we live and have been living in and I find it quite funny that some people think we are going to somehow digress on tech. Amazon already has the Alexa commands from the phone and now that little car doodad; smart phones, watches, cars, homes, etc. are listening 100% of the time all the time.

There is only one way to protect yourself and that is through: :eek::D:p:ROFLMAO::LOL:

img1.jpeg
 

mpinco

Expedition Leader
Embedding intelligence brings several benefits to manufacturers: Cost management and revenue stream creation

CES 2020: BlackBerry teams up with AWS to showcase safe, secure, intelligent connected vehicle software platform

"......Car companies can also leverage this platform for their new software-centric electric car and autonomous platforms, enabling essential functions such as continuous EV battery life monitoring and prediction, and managing vehicle sub-systems to holistically control warranty costs, providing important security updates and seamless updates of vehicle software features to delight their customers, and drive monetization of vehicle data while exercising control over data access. ........"

For all intensive purposes the Luxury Defender is a IoT edge device in a sea of edge devices. The Luxury Defender IoT edge device will support IOTA block-chain like technology for payments. While sold as "Earn as you drive", it will be pay your tolls as you drive as Fed and State level gas tax revenue decline.
 
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Pskhaat

2005 Expedition Trophy Champion
they need to a) have a reason to target you specifically, and b) have the means to access and then analyze that data ocean for your characteristics personally. Right now, governments (at least free Western governments) have both laws that prevent this and a lack of funding to do it even if laws permitted.

Sincerely good post. However, warrantless investigations and searches happen constantly. Today, the means and computation are absolutely available for dirt cheap, and ad-hoc searches of identifiable data and inferences/signals are encouraged to LE. Arguably "free" Western guvs generally are the ones having most of the means and lacking most of the laws.
 

mpinco

Expedition Leader
JLR reported to be going public in 2020

Big-name floats set to reawaken the stock market market: Flurry of high-profile names are lined up for listing

"......A listing has been in the pipeline for one of the UK’s biggest mobile phone carriers, O2, for several years, and many in the City believe car maker Jaguar Land Rover, which has become a thorn in the side of Indian owner Tata Motors, could be spun off now that uncertainty around Brexit has eased.

Analysts also suggest that other potential listings could include sports car group McLaren.......
"
 

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