How good can a full-size solid axle suspension be?

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
What is the best overall performing suspension on a full-size truck you have done? What would you do different? How good it be?



I always find a good picture insperational, this one is of a nice clean Excursion equipped with some Carli Suspension getting some use.

I would like to go through the suspension on my new 'Blanco' project. It is a 2007 Ford F350 Regular Cab 4x4. In stock form the suspension rides pretty firm tight when empty. Generally, I think this is to support the 4000lb payload capacity. The suspension is built around that more than the empty ride quality. What I want is a better thought out all around solution. I would like to build the suspension around the truck being basically 'empty' in its day to day role, but still have the ability to deal with increased load using a secondary spring system like an air bag. My general thoughts so far.....

-I would like to have new front coil springs made with the 'proper' spring rate. For me, this seems to typically seems to be the lightest rate possible to hold up the vehicle to the height you want while maintaining some preload at full droop, but not so much preload that you block the coil at full bump. I the front end could come up about 1-1.5" to help level the truck AND give it a bit more compression travel from ride height.

-Great quality shocks. On my LX45 project I was amazed how well the basically stock Toyota 80 series suspension worked with a set of custom valved Fox 2.0 Resi shocks that Accutune did for me. I think the F350 is heavy enough that a 2.0 shock just isn't enough for what I want it to do overall. I'm curious to hear about anyone's experience going beyond a good custom valved 2.5 shock in a full-size. I think the minimum shock I would consider is a 2.5 Fox Resi with the DSC adjuster. I am curious about what kind of overall difference a 3.0 and/or bypass shock would make? I don't really want to deal with the traditional external tube bypass shock 'click' however.

-Replace the rear leaf springs with a good set of custom springs like Deavers, Alcan, or Nationals. Have them built with a much lighter rate, then use a long travel air bag system to support extra weight when needed ( for big trips, towing, hauling stuff, etc ) and eliminate the overload leafs. I think eliminating the factory block would be a great idea. I could also make the leaf springs a bit longer if needed with some new hangers.

-It looks like pushing the front axle forward about 1/2-1" would help with tire clearance and spring angle if it was leveled. There are a few ways to do that...custom radius arms, new frame side mounts, etc.

-Better bumpstops. I noticed a big improvement on my LX45 project with the GM closed cell foam bumpstops ( 2000ish rear 1500 truck ) I added on the front. That really helped make the front suspension much more resistant to bottoming when pushed. You can't really even feel them 'start' either which is great. They give the front suspension a very progressive last 2-2.5" of bump travel. On the F250, I might take it a step beyond that with an air bump type setup, but honestly, I would probably start with the long travel foam units.

-The front panhard is a known weak point. There seems to be a LOT of choices for a replacement, but I haven't really seen one that has all the features that I want yet.

What would you do? I basically want something that is a cross between a Ford Raptor and a Dodge Powerwagon wrapped in a stealthy work truck wrapper.
 
So, one of the moderators ( I believe ) has a nicely built Excursion


31 pages to peruse

 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
So, one of the moderators ( I believe ) has a nicely built Excursion


31 pages to peruse


Neat project, but it looks like just an ARB/OME bolt on kit? I guess I am looking for something a lot 'more' than that. They are decent quality parts, but I would generally rate them below the performance of even a lower end 2.0 fox shock with stock valving.
 

CodyY

Explorer
Carli 2.5 pintop with deavers.
Big girl hustles in the desert.
342229425791b086ddeb29a7815e3981.jpg


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Metcalf

Expedition Leader
Carli 2.5 pintop with deavers.
Big girl hustles in the desert.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Nice! I'd love to hear a detailed review if you don't mind doing a brain dump on it.

Is it a diesel? I've been surprised that there doesn't seem to be many coils built for gas versions ( my 07 is a V10 manual )
 

shade

Well-known member
What is the best overall performing suspension on a full-size truck you have done? What would you do different? How good it be?



I always find a good picture insperational, this one is of a nice clean Excursion equipped with some Carli Suspension getting some use.

I would like to go through the suspension on my new 'Blanco' project. It is a 2007 Ford F350 Regular Cab 4x4. In stock form the suspension rides pretty firm tight when empty. Generally, I think this is to support the 4000lb payload capacity. The suspension is built around that more than the empty ride quality. What I want is a better thought out all around solution. I would like to build the suspension around the truck being basically 'empty' in its day to day role, but still have the ability to deal with increased load using a secondary spring system like an air bag. My general thoughts so far.....

-I would like to have new front coil springs made with the 'proper' spring rate. For me, this seems to typically seems to be the lightest rate possible to hold up the vehicle to the height you want while maintaining some preload at full droop, but not so much preload that you block the coil at full bump. I the front end could come up about 1-1.5" to help level the truck AND give it a bit more compression travel from ride height.

-Great quality shocks. On my LX45 project I was amazed how well the basically stock Toyota 80 series suspension worked with a set of custom valved Fox 2.0 Resi shocks that Accutune did for me. I think the F350 is heavy enough that a 2.0 shock just isn't enough for what I want it to do overall. I'm curious to hear about anyone's experience going beyond a good custom valved 2.5 shock in a full-size. I think the minimum shock I would consider is a 2.5 Fox Resi with the DSC adjuster. I am curious about what kind of overall difference a 3.0 and/or bypass shock would make? I don't really want to deal with the traditional external tube bypass shock 'click' however.

-Replace the rear leaf springs with a good set of custom springs like Deavers, Alcan, or Nationals. Have them built with a much lighter rate, then use a long travel air bag system to support extra weight when needed ( for big trips, towing, hauling stuff, etc ) and eliminate the overload leafs. I think eliminating the factory block would be a great idea. I could also make the leaf springs a bit longer if needed with some new hangers.

-It looks like pushing the front axle forward about 1/2-1" would help with tire clearance and spring angle if it was leveled. There are a few ways to do that...custom radius arms, new frame side mounts, etc.

-Better bumpstops. I noticed a big improvement on my LX45 project with the GM closed cell foam bumpstops ( 2000ish rear 1500 truck ) I added on the front. That really helped make the front suspension much more resistant to bottoming when pushed. You can't really even feel them 'start' either which is great. They give the front suspension a very progressive last 2-2.5" of bump travel. On the F250, I might take it a step beyond that with an air bump type setup, but honestly, I would probably start with the long travel foam units.

-The front panhard is a known weak point. There seems to be a LOT of choices for a replacement, but I haven't really seen one that has all the features that I want yet.

What would you do? I basically want something that is a cross between a Ford Raptor and a Dodge Powerwagon wrapped in a stealthy work truck wrapper.
From what you've described, it looks like you'd be willing to relocate rear shock & spring mounts. Is that beneficial for the F-350? I ask because that's a fairly common way to improve the rear suspension on my truck (Toyota Tacoma). I'm not familiar with the F-350, and it'd be a shame to dump money into it, only to learn that you could've gotten better results with a shock relocation or different hangers.
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
From what you've described, it looks like you'd be willing to relocate rear shock & spring mounts. Is that beneficial for the F-350? I ask because that's a fairly common way to improve the rear suspension on my truck (Toyota Tacoma). I'm not familiar with the F-350, and it'd be a shame to dump money into it, only to learn that you could've gotten better results with a shock relocation or different hangers.

I would say 'maybe' on a major shock relocation. I don't want to go to a bed cage or anything like that that would negatively effect the bed space. From what I can tell the rear of the truck can package a decent amount of shock travel in stock/leveled for. It looks like Carli is offering a 13" stroke rear shock on some of their higher end 2.5" leveling packages. That does require a new bolt on upper front mount, but it doesn't go through the bed.

I would rather have more quality travel than quantity of travel. More shock diameter, better bumpstops, position sensitive valving, etc.
I also want to keep it fairly balanced front to rear with travel, and the front is limited to a degree due to packaging and the radius arms.
 

CodyY

Explorer
Nice! I'd love to hear a detailed review if you don't mind doing a brain dump on it.

Is it a diesel? I've been surprised that there doesn't seem to be many coils built for gas versions ( my 07 is a V10 manual )
Mine is 08 V10.

Nobody makes a coil for the gas trucks. You could go to an oem spring for a diesel with a snow plow pkg maybe? Or just go big for the backcountry 3.0 system and have legit coilovers. Paying for custom springs is dumb, there are options out there.

I'm building a winch bumper that will offset some of the weight difference for the front springs; and going from mini leaf packs to full packs with long travel bags. Its choppy, especially with an empty trailer. I'm just going to have to bite the bullet on the rear end stuff.

Mine has the carli trackbar and PMF arms. It's more hardcore than I would have done but it was already on the truck when I bought it used.

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shade

Well-known member
I would say 'maybe' on a major shock relocation. I don't want to go to a bed cage or anything like that that would negatively effect the bed space. From what I can tell the rear of the truck can package a decent amount of shock travel in stock/leveled for. It looks like Carli is offering a 13" stroke rear shock on some of their higher end 2.5" leveling packages. That does require a new bolt on upper front mount, but it doesn't go through the bed.

I would rather have more quality travel than quantity of travel. More shock diameter, better bumpstops, position sensitive valving, etc.
I also want to keep it fairly balanced front to rear with travel, and the front is limited to a degree due to packaging and the radius arms.
So not too crazy then. Chopping holes in the bed has been my limit, too.
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
Mine is 08 V10.

Nobody makes a coil for the gas trucks. You could go to an oem spring for a diesel with a snow plow pkg maybe? Or just go big for the backcountry 3.0 system and have legit coilovers. Paying for custom springs is dumb, there are options out there.

I'm building a winch bumper that will offset some of the weight difference for the front springs; and going from mini leaf packs to full packs with long travel bags. Its choppy, especially with an empty trailer. I'm just going to have to bite the bullet on the rear end stuff.

Mine has the carli trackbar and PMF arms. It's more hardcore than I would have done but it was already on the truck when I bought it used.

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yeah, I'm not interested in running heavier diesel rate coils on the gasser. I'd actually like to try something on the much lower side of spring rate honestly, especially with good shocks. I also don't want much lift in front. I think 1.5 up in front and 1.5 down on the rear suspension would be about the right stance for what I have in mind. My truck currently has 3.75" of rake empty. The stock front springs seem WAY too stiff for me.
 

CodyY

Explorer
So not too crazy then. Chopping holes in the bed has been my limit, too.
Having hustled an 8400lb truck in the desert, this is overkill.

Carli has everything as a balanced package. Anything else is guessing and wasting money. For what I really use my truck for, I'd do the 60mm Bilstien kit with resi rears and be done. Wanna go faster? Buy a legit prerunner


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Metcalf

Expedition Leader
So not too crazy then. Chopping holes in the bed has been my limit, too.

I just don't want to give up the bed space for being a truck doing truck things.

Not crazy in mods.....but probably a little on the crazy side for parts. I'm really considering something like a 3.0 (maybe internal bypass) with a DSC adjuster.

I think for the varrying rear load requirements you need to dial in more compression valving when heavy.
 

shade

Well-known member
Having hustled an 8400lb truck in the desert, this is overkill.

Carli has everything as a balanced package. Anything else is guessing and wasting money. For what I really use my truck for, I'd do the 60mm Bilstien kit with resi rears and be done. Wanna go faster? Buy a legit prerunner

He mentioned bypass shocks & air bumps in the OP, so I was trying to gauge where he was going with it. From what I've seen of lighter trucks, that's getting into dune jumping territory.
 

CodyY

Explorer
I just don't want to give up the bed space for being a truck doing truck things.

Not crazy in mods.....but probably a little on the crazy side for parts. I'm really considering something like a 3.0 (maybe internal bypass) with a DSC adjuster.

I think for the varrying rear load requirements you need to dial in more compression valving when heavy.
Keep in mind the adjuster only stiffens from base valving. King and Carli run wildly different valving and nitrogen pressures. That said, the helper bags will dictate a majority of the way it reacts to load.

And I'm told by several guys the full packs are a world of difference compared to the mini packs

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