Why aren't more tacoma owners up in arms about their trucks?

battleaxe

Captain Obvious
I don't want to get in a brand war, but the LR3 that switched away from had a spec wading depth of 27.6" stock and had a spec ascent angle of 45deg - so you knew the engine oil distribution system was designed for that.

And yes - there are a lot of things that influence wading depth, but with the LR if you hyrdolocked the engine they would open up the door panels. If the water didn't pass 27" they knew you were okay and would honor the warranty. With the taco there are stories of not honoring warranties when trucks go through a few inches of water (I linked to the stories from my site). That's what they tried to do with me - and I think that's a problem for an off-road truck.

Gotcha, that makes sense overall when you compare it with the specifics of the LR3. I'm still not on board with the "I paid 40k for the offroad package, so I expect an offroad truck"... My logic for that is if you do the basic research, it's easy to realize that the offroad package is purely aesthetics and does not improve the capability of a Tacoma whatsoever. It doesn't change the fact that it's frustrating overall.
 

ChasingOurTrunks

Well-known member
I understand, however my comment was based on after 11 months and not hydrolocking his motor, he is still upset over the "fact" that Tacoma's will hydrolock in shallow water. .....

I hope I'm not coming off as some kind of blind loyalist to the Toyota Marque. I understand there are many shortcomings with the Tacoma, Toyota's and every other vehicle. I've spent time in the dirt, under a Land Cruiser 70 series, you know, the one's that never break....

You are not coming off that way at all! I sure hope I'm not coming off as anti-toyota either as I'm not. I've never seen a motorbike or an overlanding rig I didn't like in some way. If it weren't for the size of my garage and bank account, I'd probably have quite a few Toyotas, Fords, Unimogs, Rovers, etc.

I certainly don't mean to speak for Sam Odio (The OP) but I can see his website fine and I know a lot of folks can't. so I'll share my perspective from what I can read. I have no horse in this race. I don't think Sam cares too much about the Taco's ability (or lack thereof) to cross water, it's more about Toyota not being straight about it one way or the other. (Sam, forgive and correct me if I'm mistaken here).

The Truck is sold as an "Off Road" package; this implies some increased capacity or capability to take it into reasonable off pavement situations safely without damage. This includes some minor water and hill climb conditions -- nothing extreme, but the kind of stuff that is typical for a disused Canadian forestry road. Toyota apparently has not made an official statement on wading depth, and I think the lack of information is the main complaint. Can it do 20 inches? 2 inches? It's easy to say "Try it and see" but OP took his Taco through a reasonable amount of water -- a big puddle, more or less. This was not a Camel Trophy-esque, put-a-shower-cap-on-your-beard-because-the-water-is-so-deep-type of river crossing. He has a photo on his website that clearly shows the water isn't even over the door sills. Based on THAT info Toyota told him "Nope, extreme use" and they refused to warranty it until he proved that water did not enter the engine and cause a hyrdrolock.

By deduction, Sam's experience would imply that Toyota feels that fording water that is up to the frame is "extreme use" and therefore, the approved wading depth of the taco has to be....under the frame rails? So less than 10 inches? That doesn't seem very "Off-Road". But again, they don't say. If they published it, at least people would know and be able to compensate accordingly.

I think based on how this incident is described on Sam's website, this is a case where the 4x4 industry as a whole could do a better job of managing expectations of their buyers. I think Toyota's response should have been the same as yours, Nitro. "No way the truck should have locked up in that shallow of water, let's take a look at this". Based on how he describes he drove it, there's no reason a new, functioning truck with an off road package should fail the way his did.

The icing on the cake is that OP bought the Taco specifically for an epic, 3 month trip, and his engine blew on day 2 or 3 if I'm understanding this correctly. To find out about these limitations on Day 2 of a 3 month trip in a 2019 model year vehicle....that's heart wrenching, and that's what happened to Sam. If he had known beforehand about these limitations he may have prepped his rig differently, chosen a different platform, or just modified his route, but he didn't have the chance to do that before it broke on him and he was basically initially told "That's your own fault" by Toyota.

Regardless of the pro or anti-toyota stuff, I think we can agree that any vehicle maker selling a rig as an "off roader" really should publish a full list of off-road relevant specs, and it'd be swell if the industry standardized this stuff the way they have with other specifications like approach angles, payload, etc. That way, as consumers, we can buy the off roader that best meets our needs. Sam's experience is valuable for all of us to know what questions to ask when we go shopping.

For me, I wouldn't buy a base rig that isn't capable of Moderate (5) trails off the lot, described below and taken from:

https://www.dirtopia.com/wiki/4WD_Trail_Rating

Rutted and/or rocky road. No shelves. Rocks up to 12" and water crossings up to 12" with possible currents. Passable mud. Moderate grades to 15 degrees. 6" holes. Side hill to 20 degrees. 4WD required. No width problems.
 

LionZoo

Observer
Even though automakers by and large have great quality control processes these days, manufacturing defects still happen. It might very well be that OP got a dud motor that was going to blow no matter how it is operated. There's perhaps something to be said about putting some miles on a vehicle just to break it in before going on a long epic trip.
 

Sam Odio

New member
ChasingOurTrunks - you got it exactly right. More eloquently than I could put it. And most of what you said also applies to how I feel about Toyota's handling of hill ascents (in addition to water fords).

Someone who read my site just sent me this screenshot. I think he was making the point that there are others out there that feel the same way:

517934
 

toylandcruiser

Expedition Leader
It's taken me a bit to wrap my head around what you're saying... Lol. All I'm getting at is the idea that other trucks are going to be "offroad" trucks is laughable. Only thing different would really be a locker.

You said your Tacoma rides like a Camry and I responded. Just because something rides nice doesn’t make it less of a truck.
 

Sam Odio

New member
A friend that was on the trip just sent me a photo of my Taco after the hill climb. I'm attaching it in case anyone is curious. You can tell the smoke is clearly blue/gray (burning engine oil).



517937
 

toylandcruiser

Expedition Leader
There’s no way this Happens that often and this is the first most of us have heard about this. In 3 years since these came out and this is the first mention of it. There’s more to the story
 
Last edited:

Sam Odio

New member
There’s no way this Halle s that often and this is the first most of us have heard about this. In 3 years since these came out and this is the first mention of it. There’s more to the story

People have been talking about the 3rd gen hill climb ascent issue for years - see the links I posted on my website (see signature). But yes - someone should test the Tacoma to figure out exactly at what angles it happens...my impression is that it's something around 35-40 deg.
 

toylandcruiser

Expedition Leader
People have been talking about the 3rd gen hill climb ascent issue for years - see the links I posted on my website (see signature). But yes - someone should test the Tacoma to figure out exactly at what angles it happens...my impression is that it's something around 35-40 deg.

Never seen it mentioned anywhere before. Until this. And like I said I e sen plenty of Tacoma’s climbing steep inclines with zero issues.
 

Sam Odio

New member
You might want to read the comments on your page
emoji23.png
emoji1787.png
emoji23.png
emoji1787.png
emoji23.png
.
Yah there are some good ones in there...
  1. " I don’t think you did anything wrong and that’s a serious issue which makes me not want to go Toyota again"
  2. "2nd Gen > 3rd Gen"
  3. I looked to Toyota for my 1st pick up purchase. Not overly impressed.
  4. The 3rd gen just LOOKS cheap. Now I know it's mechanically crap too. Unless Toyota returns to it's former quality, I may as well buy a Chevy....
Thats all a Toyota giggle and crybaby fest.

I'm not sure why y'all are dogging on me ... it's as if you don't want to hold Toyota accountable in the same way other off-road brands are held accountable. It's clear you believe something is wrong with me, because I'm pointing out Toyota doesn't publish the wading depth for their "off road" truck, for example. Or like, somehow the thing I've documented with photos and video didn't happen...

A critique on Toyota is an attack on the very core of your identity.

It's interesting - but I think it's time for me to sign off on this forum. I don't think there's much more I can do in a room full of Toyota fanboys other than telling my story as accurately as possible, which I've done.
 
Last edited:

bkg

Explorer
People have been talking about the 3rd gen hill climb ascent issue for years - see the links I posted on my website (see signature). But yes - someone should test the Tacoma to figure out exactly at what angles it happens...my impression is that it's something around 35-40 deg.

He won’t believe you, regardless of links, pics, data.
 

Lovetheworld

Active member
Sam, I understand you hate Toyota for this after your experience with your Tacoma.

But you are driving Freelanders. They are also marketed (like almost all SUVs) with pictures of offroad use etc.
I am sure you do not see the Freelanders as overland ready? They may not have the specific issues that the Tacoma has, but I don't think they are much better. They may be less capable.
I remember an event with a lot of sand driving and the first generation Freelander breaking I believe the transfer case or something else very important, very quickly.

So I don't really understand the attitude of getting back to Land Rover "safely". Yes the Defender is capable enough, but the Freelanders are also compromised solutions.
So why did you chose them and not another Defender or Landcruiser or whatever. Or you do not have the same use for it?

It is also funny to see as what is overlanding. To me, it would not be those extremes. If it is gonna be my home for a year, I'm not gonna put it under 45 degrees, or only briefly. But yes, bad surfaces and off-roading are definetely part of the deal.
I do have a snorkel and do watercrossings, but on a huge trip I would still chose a different path if possible.
In that way, I think the Tacoma would be even be fine for a lot of people overlanding. Or using it offroad. But clearly, it does not meet the standards of a Landcruiser or Defender etc, of true 4x4s.

Still, if there are enough people suffering from this issue, you could sue Toyota together? Demanding a repair under warranty.
 

perterra

Adventurer
Yah there are some good ones in there...
  1. " I don’t think you did anything wrong and that’s a serious issue which makes me not want to go Toyota again"
  2. "2nd Gen > 3rd Gen"
  3. I looked to Toyota for my 1st pick up purchase. Not overly impressed.
  4. The 3rd gen just LOOKS cheap. Now I know it's mechanically crap too. Unless Toyota returns to it's former quality, I may as well buy a Chevy....

I'm not sure why y'all are dogging on me ... it's as if you don't want to hold Toyota accountable in the same way other off-road brands are held accountable. It's clear you believe something is wrong with me, because I'm pointing out Toyota doesn't publish the wading depth for their "off road" truck, for example. Or like, somehow the thing I've documented with photos and video didn't happen...

A critique on Toyota is an attack on the very core of your identity.

It's interesting - but I think it's time for me to sign off on this forum. I don't think there's much more I can do in a room full of Toyota fanboys other than telling my story as accurately as possible, which I've done.

I think you are getting dogged because some think there is more to the story than is being told. I know I do.

But the answer is in the reply above, if there are this many cases, then a lawsuit would solve the problem.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
185,529
Messages
2,875,560
Members
224,922
Latest member
Randy Towles
Top