Ecodiesel as a short-distance commuter? Issues?

Explorerinil

Observer
The 5.0 F150 is far faster, than an F150 has any right going. I'd go with the cheaper, easier, 5.0.

Get as much gear as available. Or be prepared to regear if you go with larger tires. And don't overlook that an 6.2L F250 costs less than an F150 fairly often.
I got an 18 f150 with the 5.0 for a work vehicle, place I work only buys fords... because they are always the lowest bid. They ordered it with 3:31 gears, it’s a complete dog, I would recommend a different gear set for anyone getting one.
 

Explorerinil

Observer
I don't understand the better MPG with diesel argument. Sure they get a little better than their gas counter-part, but the fuel seems to be quite a bit more expensive. Doesn't that even itself out?
The higher price of the diesel truck, maintenance and fuel costs do not equate savings unless the vehicle is kept for along time. I can say that diesel trucks do get better mileage and outperform gas truck towing and hauling. I used to travel with a group of guys and we would camp and four wheel, on a trip my friend with a Hemi 2500 stopped for 4 tanks of fuel, me following stopped for 2, both pulling roughly the loaded trail and similar gear... case in point my truck hands down got better mpg, but my truck was 60k vs his 50k truck.
 

malibubts

Adventurer
@malibubts, I had heard the 3.0l ecodiesel takes longer to warm up as compared to other diesels (mostly referring to the 3/4 ton's). Have you found this to be true?

@Martinjmpr: FWIW, OEM's put out smaller displacement diesels (2.8l in the Colorado and 3.0l in the Ram and F-150). I have not heard any of them list restrictions on how short the commute can be. These newer SCR-laden systems are designed to operate more effectively and more efficiently in realistic traffic/commute conditions as compared to the older (post 2007) diesels.

If you were only to use that Ram ecodiesel to commute 10 miles everyday for its entire life, then yes I could see problems occurring. If you go out on longer drives at least 2x-3x per month (which is likely if you're into overlanding) then I don't see why you would have any problems. As @malibubts said, you just need to 'stretch' the diesel's legs every once in a while to work the engine and enable to DPF to regenerate (passively or actively). Assuming you will drive longer distances every so often, the DPF and engine will take care of itself. The OEM's designed these newer diesels with the understanding that they wouldn't all be towing/hauling on highway trips 100% of the time.

And just FYI, plenty of European-designed diesels are used for short-range, daily commutes without much issue.

I have not owned another diesel so I can't really compare. However I really don't notice the warm up time being poor, even in the winter. I kept an eye on my dash today and I was at operating temp within 3 miles of leaving work. Obviously it's the summer so warm up times won't be bad. However even in the winter I'd say I'm up to temp in about 5-7 miles. As I mentioned I do run the block heater in the morning for a couple of hours which will put the coolant in the block around 100F. Not required for the temperatures I see here in the winter, but better safe than sorry.

Cabin heat is something else to be considered. This truck was built very consumer friendly and targeted atypical diesel owners; it's fairly quiet, DEF intervals are much longer, etc. They actually have supplementary electric cab heaters that will kick on below 40F as well as an automatic high idle that bumps the RPMs up by about 300 to 400. All together I'd say it's a marginal increase in time to get cab heat.

I'll echo what you said; if you wanted a vehicle for 10 miles each way a day, every day this probably isn't the truck for you. But if you are getting out and also driving longer distances I don't think you'll have a problem. I'd honestly feel safe at 3x a week plus weekend trips, but that's ultimately up to the buyer.

For what it's worth the EcoDiesel won't passively regen, the DPF is too far down stream for this to occur. I see regens in the 100 mile range for my normal commute and in the 300 mile range for all highway. Folks who have tuned have stated they end up in the 700 to 1,000 range but that's a whole different discussion.
 

malibubts

Adventurer
To the comments on TCO I'm going to copy another post I made yesterday in my build thread:

I'm going to try to put together the best response I can on TCO while also not creating a book here. There are really a ton of variables, but I'll share my experience. I just knocked out my 60K maintenance and am sitting just under that mark as far as total mileage goes, unless otherwise noted any averages will be over this time frame. I track all maintenance and fuel usage in a software program, so these are real numbers here. I think the best way to break everything out will also be cost per 10K miles, this should make it fairly easy to scale out to any interval you want to compare.


I as much of my own maintenance as I can, so any costs listed will just be parts and not include labor. If you don't feel like getting down and dirty YMMV.


First up on the extra maintenance route is fuel filters. The service intervals on these are every 20K miles, so I have replaced mine 3 times to this point. I've spent $83.05 in total on fuel filters, which breaks down to $13.84 per 10K miles.


Next on the maintenance list is DEF, on the EcoDiesel they designed the tank at 8 gallons to last between 10K service intervals. In reality I've had to fill up quite a bit less. I'm at 5 fill ups for a total of 33.58 gallons on 53,816 miles since I have not had to fill up to match the 60K service interval. That's for a total of $92.58 or $2.76 a gallon. We'll call that 50K for easy math and we get $18.52 per 10K miles.


Last up on the maintenance front is the oil changes. There is a bit of extra oil involed as a full change is 10.5 quarts. The filter on this truck is also the european cartridge style and is a little expensive from the dealer. However this truck has a specified 10K service interval. My last truck was a GM 5.3L which specified 5K miles; some quick internet searching shows the current 5.3L and the EcoBoost to specify 7.5K miles. So even though the service will be slightly more expensive, you'll be doing it less often. I am going to call this one a wash since I don't feel like doing all the math involved here.


So maintenance will run you an extra $33 per 10K miles.


The final cost isn't maintenance related, but is the additional purchase price of the engine. Over the Hemi, the EcoDiesel was a $3,000 MSRP. I paid about 20% less than MSRP for the truck, so we are looking at $2,600 adjusted. It's worth keeping in mind here that with Ram you can get the diesel on any trim level, unlike the GMC and Ford trucks where you have to buy the higher trim level.


Moving on to the MPG front I am going to pull these numbers from Fuelly and also add in my experience with the EcoDiesel:

F150 2.7L EcoBoost is at 18.3 MPG
Chevy 1500 5.3L is at 16.6 MPG
Ram 1500 EcoDiesel is at 22.1 MPG
Ram 1500 EcoDiesel is at 24.5 MPG (Personal Average)

I've averaged $2.47 per gallon on diesel, which I am going to ignore for the calculations and use the national average. I usually pay around $2.80 in the summer and around $3.00 in the winter. My average earlier is lower due to fuel perks I will occasionally have. I could filter those fill ups out, but don't feel like doing the work. AAA puts us at $2.865 for Gas and $3.154 for Diesel. I'm going to ignore that several manufacturers recommend using mid-grade and stick to regular since I doubt many people follow that.


Cost per 10K miles:

F150: 10K Miles / 18.3 MPG = 546 Gallons * $2.865 = $1,566
Chevy: 10K Miles / 16.6 MPG = 602 Gallons * $2.865 = $1,717
Ram: 10K Miles / 22.1 MPG = 454 Gallons * $3.154 = $1,433
Ram (P): 10K Miles / 24.5 MPG = 408 Gallons * $3.154 = $1,287

EcoDiesel Advantage:


Ram v F150: $100 per 10K miles or $2,500 at 250K miles

Ram v Chevy: $250 per 10K miles or $6,250 at 250K miles


Ram(P) v F150: $246 per 10K miles or $6,150 at 250K miles

Ram(P) v Chevy: $397 per 10K miles or $9,925 at 250K miles


On the worst case you break even against the 2.7L EcoBoost on the lifetime of the truck and accounting for purchase price. I'd argue it'd be more fair to compare against the 3.5L to better match the engine capabilities, but there you go. Against the 5.3L is where you really start pulling ahead. For what it's worth my experience on the EcoDiesel is also quite a bit better than the average from Fuelly. Also in my experience 16.6 MPG is spot on for what I got in my GMC. For my particular situation I'm looking at a savings of $397 per 10K miles or nearly $10,000 at 250K miles.


It's also not worth discounting the extra range per tank and less time spent at the pump. Again back to my experience I'm at 194 less gallons per 10K than the F150 or about 10 stops at the fuel pump. I know you can get the larger fuel tanks in the F150s, but I will spitball those at $500 which will decrease your breakeven point. And if you really want maximum range I know titan makes a 39 gallon tank replacement, I wish I could swallow the $1,000 price tag for the even greater range.


I ran the numbers before buying and determined I'd save a good chunk of change given what I'd seen on the forums for averages. Aside from that I also just wanted the diesel and had for years. You bet I would have gotten a 2500 and a diesel if I could have justified the extra $10,000.


I think this still ended up turning into a book, but hopefully it answers your questions.

/end copy and paste. Again this is an extremely your mileage may very type of situation. All I can say is that in my experience I am coming out significantly ahead with my EcoDiesel as compared to my old 5.3L and likely any V8 out there now. Sure I wanted a diesel and that played into my decision process, but I have a couple friends with EcoBoosts that have been less than thrilled with their fuel economy. That's the closest comparison in the fuel economy segment.

I'd make the same choice over again, and it my sound like I'm trying to justify my purchase but I'd have no issues admitting I'd made the wrong choice on this one. It's also a very different discussion in my opinion on the small displacement diesels since you are looking at a much lower initial cost, I don't know that I could justify the added expense of a 3/4 Ton diesel unless you require it for towing.
 
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AZBaobab

Observer
Slightly tangental to the OP, but there's a lot of negative publicity going around regarding the reliability of the EcoDiesel. Anyone here have experience with the... I think it's passenger-side cam-gear failure? I've likewise got about a 20 mile commute I'm looking to get another truck for (the FJ80's 15mpg is a killer) and the 3.0 EcoDiesel was love-at-first-sight... on paper.
What have you guys heard about it?
 

Todd n Natalie

OverCamper
Slightly tangental to the OP, but there's a lot of negative publicity going around regarding the reliability of the EcoDiesel. Anyone here have experience with the... I think it's passenger-side cam-gear failure? I've likewise got about a 20 mile commute I'm looking to get another truck for (the FJ80's 15mpg is a killer) and the 3.0 EcoDiesel was love-at-first-sight... on paper.
What have you guys heard about it?
No experience here but, maybe drive onE of them, then a F150 diesel. Not sure what your time line is for making the purchase but the Silverado / Sierra will be coming out with a I-6 cyl diesel right away as well.
 

plainjaneFJC

Deplorable
To the comments on TCO I'm going to copy another post I made yesterday in my build thread:

I'm going to try to put together the best response I can on TCO while also not creating a book here. There are really a ton of variables, but I'll share my experience. I just knocked out my 60K maintenance and am sitting just under that mark as far as total mileage goes, unless otherwise noted any averages will be over this time frame. I track all maintenance and fuel usage in a software program, so these are real numbers here. I think the best way to break everything out will also be cost per 10K miles, this should make it fairly easy to scale out to any interval you want to compare.


I as much of my own maintenance as I can, so any costs listed will just be parts and not include labor. If you don't feel like getting down and dirty YMMV.


First up on the extra maintenance route is fuel filters. The service intervals on these are every 20K miles, so I have replaced mine 3 times to this point. I've spent $83.05 in total on fuel filters, which breaks down to $13.84 per 10K miles.


Next on the maintenance list is DEF, on the EcoDiesel they designed the tank at 8 gallons to last between 10K service intervals. In reality I've had to fill up quite a bit less. I'm at 5 fill ups for a total of 33.58 gallons on 53,816 miles since I have not had to fill up to match the 60K service interval. That's for a total of $92.58 or $2.76 a gallon. We'll call that 50K for easy math and we get $18.52 per 10K miles.


Last up on the maintenance front is the oil changes. There is a bit of extra oil involed as a full change is 10.5 quarts. The filter on this truck is also the european cartridge style and is a little expensive from the dealer. However this truck has a specified 10K service interval. My last truck was a GM 5.3L which specified 5K miles; some quick internet searching shows the current 5.3L and the EcoBoost to specify 7.5K miles. So even though the service will be slightly more expensive, you'll be doing it less often. I am going to call this one a wash since I don't feel like doing all the math involved here.


So maintenance will run you an extra $33 per 10K miles.


The final cost isn't maintenance related, but is the additional purchase price of the engine. Over the Hemi, the EcoDiesel was a $3,000 MSRP. I paid about 20% less than MSRP for the truck, so we are looking at $2,600 adjusted. It's worth keeping in mind here that with Ram you can get the diesel on any trim level, unlike the GMC and Ford trucks where you have to buy the higher trim level.


Moving on to the MPG front I am going to pull these numbers from Fuelly and also add in my experience with the EcoDiesel:

F150 2.7L EcoBoost is at 18.3 MPG
Chevy 1500 5.3L is at 16.6 MPG
Ram 1500 EcoDiesel is at 22.1 MPG
Ram 1500 EcoDiesel is at 24.5 MPG (Personal Average)

I've averaged $2.47 per gallon on diesel, which I am going to ignore for the calculations and use the national average. I usually pay around $2.80 in the summer and around $3.00 in the winter. My average earlier is lower due to fuel perks I will occasionally have. I could filter those fill ups out, but don't feel like doing the work. AAA puts us at $2.865 for Gas and $3.154 for Diesel. I'm going to ignore that several manufacturers recommend using mid-grade and stick to regular since I doubt many people follow that.


Cost per 10K miles:

F150: 10K Miles / 18.3 MPG = 546 Gallons * $2.865 = $1,566
Chevy: 10K Miles / 16.6 MPG = 602 Gallons * $2.865 = $1,717
Ram: 10K Miles / 22.1 MPG = 454 Gallons * $3.154 = $1,433
Ram (P): 10K Miles / 24.5 MPG = 408 Gallons * $3.154 = $1,287

EcoDiesel Advantage:


Ram v F150: $100 per 10K miles or $2,500 at 250K miles

Ram v Chevy: $250 per 10K miles or $6,250 at 250K miles


Ram(P) v F150: $246 per 10K miles or $6,150 at 250K miles

Ram(P) v Chevy: $397 per 10K miles or $9,925 at 250K miles


On the worst case you break even against the 2.7L EcoBoost on the lifetime of the truck and accounting for purchase price. I'd argue it'd be more fair to compare against the 3.5L to better match the engine capabilities, but there you go. Against the 5.3L is where you really start pulling ahead. For what it's worth my experience on the EcoDiesel is also quite a bit better than the average from Fuelly. Also in my experience 16.6 MPG is spot on for what I got in my GMC. For my particular situation I'm looking at a savings of $397 per 10K miles or nearly $10,000 at 250K miles.


It's also not worth discounting the extra range per tank and less time spent at the pump. Again back to my experience I'm at 194 less gallons per 10K than the F150 or about 10 stops at the fuel pump. I know you can get the larger fuel tanks in the F150s, but I will spitball those at $500 which will decrease your breakeven point. And if you really want maximum range I know titan makes a 39 gallon tank replacement, I wish I could swallow the $1,000 price tag for the even greater range.


I ran the numbers before buying and determined I'd save a good chunk of change given what I'd seen on the forums for averages. Aside from that I also just wanted the diesel and had for years. You bet I would have gotten a 2500 and a diesel if I could have justified the extra $10,000.


I think this still ended up turning into a book, but hopefully it answers your questions.

/end copy and paste. Again this is an extremely your mileage may very type of situation. All I can say is that in my experience I am coming out significantly ahead with my EcoDiesel as compared to my old 5.3L and likely any V8 out there now. Sure I wanted a diesel and that played into my decision process, but I have a couple friends with EcoBoosts that have been less than thrilled with their fuel economy. That's the closest comparison in the fuel economy segment.

I'd make the same choice over again, and it my sound like I'm trying to justify my purchase but I'd have no issues admitting I'd made the wrong choice on this one. It's also a very different discussion in my opinion on the small displacement diesels since you are looking at a much lower initial cost, I don't know that I could justify the added expense of a 3/4 Ton diesel unless you require it for towing.
If our current fuel price delta between diesel and unleaded stays the same you no longer have any advantage to diesel economically, its actually a disadvantage.
 

Regcabguy

Oil eater.
I drove a 5.4 F-150 after my 2nd gen Cummins sold. Anemic power after coming out of diesel.
I've ridden in a 6.2 F-350 4x4. Adequate power but a drop in the bucket compared to the 6.7 Powerstrokes.
That being said I'll keep my Cummins for awhile but it'll be my last diesel.
 

plainjaneFJC

Deplorable
I drove a 5.4 F-150 after my 2nd gen Cummins sold. Anemic power after coming out of diesel.
I've ridden in a 6.2 F-350 4x4. Adequate power but a drop in the bucket compared to the 6.7 Powerstrokes.
That being said I'll keep my Cummins for awhile but it'll be my last diesel.
How much power do you need? As long as I can hit 65 before I merge in traffic Ive got plenty of power.
 

Buliwyf

Viking with a Hammer
Scaled at 11 250# this morning in/on an F350. 6.2 did fine. I don't think I used more than half throttle. Still gets up ramps quicker than the average car driver wants to go.

Not getting the weak part? Wrong gear, or wrong operator. Today's gas trucks are a bit overpowered for most reasonable loads, especially the 6.2 Ford.
 

VanIsle_Greg

I think I need a bigger truck!
I have a friend with 2 of the Ram 1500 3.0L Eco Diesels and he loves them. Both are work trucks, one has about 100K on it (60,000 miles) and the other is basically new. They do use them for towing their work boat and long haul / lots of gear, and lots of miles. He said that to date both have been 100% reliable too...which I was concerned about when thinking about buying one. The tough part around here, they are impossible to find used and new are too $$ for my budget.

I have a friend who was looking to get his dream camper once he retired. He planned a trip all the way from Victoria BC Canada to Florida and then back up the east coast and back across Canada home. He picked up the LARGEST Lance camper I have ever seen, and a 1 ton GMC...Gas. Why Gas (that is what I asked assuming it had the Diesel) and his answer was much the same as others mentioned. 99% of the time, he drives it short distances and uses it as his primary vehicle... so short trips to the store, a rip out to get stuff for the house etc. No diesel required. He really only uses it to haul the camper a few times a year, so he opted for the 99% use not the 1% use.

Same for me... most of the time, short trips, groceries or taking the kids somewhere. Diesel not ideal... 5.7L Hemi works great.

The 5.7L with the 3.92 gears and the 8 speed ZF is a great combo, lots of torque and decent mileage. Tows great too. Glad I opted to go gas rather than the diesel...even if I still secretly want one.

Good info in this thread.
 

Explorerinil

Observer
The 5.0 F150 is far faster, than an F150 has any right going. I'd go with the cheaper, easier, 5.0.

Get as much gear as available. Or be prepared to regear if you go with larger tires. And don't overlook that an 6.2L F250 costs less than an F150 fairly often.
I drive an 18 f150 with the 5.0... it isn’t fast at all, and the 11 mpg sucks. There is no way I would ever consider buying one for myself, if you need a ford half ton get an eco boost.
 

Todd n Natalie

OverCamper
I drive an 18 f150 with the 5.0... it isn’t fast at all, and the 11 mpg sucks. There is no way I would ever consider buying one for myself, if you need a ford half ton get an eco boost.
That seems odd. My 2015 F-150 with a 5.0L and 3:73's is averaging about double that mileage?
 

Buliwyf

Viking with a Hammer
I get 19 all day long in 150's. Is your work truck overloaded or broken? My F350 gets 8.8mpg@11,000 pounds, and it idles 3-4 hours a day.

Seriously though, my friends 5.0L F150 4x4 is pretty quick. (no idea what gear ratio) Completely unnecessary. I've been in 5.0L Mustang Lx's that were hardly quicker.
 

Ari3sgr3gg0

Active member
I don't understand the better MPG with diesel argument. Sure they get a little better than their gas counter-part, but the fuel seems to be quite a bit more expensive. Doesn't that even itself out?
Depends on the situation and years of trucks being talked about. Most modern trucks get fantastic mileage compared to their older counterparts. For example my 1990 F250 5.8 averages about 13 with careful driving. The 1990 7.3 crew cab got 19 consistent with it breaking over 20 on many highway trips. In my scenario the diesel option is MUCH cheaper to run despite the extra cost differences. Now with modern trucks getting 18-20 in a gasser is about the same as their diesel counterparts so it really only makes sense to go diesel if extensive towing is going to be a factor. If I ever win the lotto I'll probably spend the coin and actually get a modern truck
 

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