How important is GVWR?

[jornvango]

When taking an overland trip, it's tough to stay under GVWR looking at the camping & other equipment that gets dragged around. Depending on the vehicle you start your build from, sometimes the GVWR is just too low. For example, a Tacoma double cab 4x4 with the 6 cylinder has a little over 1,000 lbs of payload. Once you put a (well equipped) FWC Fleet on this, you're already at (or over) the GVWR of the Tacoma and that's before filling up the gas tank, adding people, filling up the water tank, etc.

I'm wondering, on an overland trip ...
Is the Tacoma built to handle sustained loads over its payload? What mods would be needed (brakes, suspension, ...) to fix the issues?
Are there any legal ramifications of traveling across the US, Europe, ... with a rig that is over GVWR? Do some countries weigh your rig? Do insurance companies deny your claim if they (somehow) find out your rig was over GVWR at the time of an accident?

Thanks.

 

[SDDiver5]

To fix the issue you get a bigger truck so you don't even have to worry about it.

GVWR is very important. It's the manufacturers way of saying this is the limit. If you're going down the street to the dump, sure no problem. Traveling across the U.S and into Europe, I wouldn't.

A few weeks ago there was a family of 7 and they were towing a huge trailer that was wayyyy over the limit of what the truck (technically it was an expedition) could handle and lost control. Killed the two parents and sent the 5 kids (I think) to the ICU. Yes, other factors were involved and they weren't using seat belts but it all started because they payload and trailer was far over the limit.

 

[s.e.charles]

even if the concerns were not legal ones, would you want to "overland" in a vehicle whose drivability was of constant challenge?

my father always drove what could only affectionately called a "********-box". bad tires, ball joints, and everything else including poor compression. in his defense, this was not out of choice but rather not having two nickels to rub together and get a better car. I can remember driving in the snow and he would put the passenger side of the car in the gutter so he could drive on the spewed gravel from other cars and get "better traction". remember vacuum operated windshield wipers? we would drive up hill in the breakdown lane because his cars never had enough "oomph" to keep up with traffic. we just hoped we would get to the crest before we would run into something.

get the right tool for the job, or make the job fit the too you have. either way is better than vacuum windshield wipers.

edit: and please don't injure someone else because you don't.

 

[jornvango]

Campers like the XP V2, FWC Fleet, ATC ... all push the Tacoma to the limit (but usually over the GVWR limit; even just looking at the camper's dry weight).

As these campers are specifically built for smaller 'mid size' trucks like the Tacoma, does such a thing exist: a mid size truck (=smaller than the heavy duty trucks and more maneuverable like in European cities) with sufficient payload to actually safely carry these campers + 2 people + a full water tank + clothing, etc. ?

 

[Dalko43]

Will a FWC-laden Tacoma that is moderately over GVWR suffer a sudden and catastrophic failure after a few thousand miles of driving?

Probably not. They are well-built and robust trucks. All OEM's build in some degree of leeway with their Payload and GVWR spec's, some more than others.


Will that Tacoma handle the same and have the same useful lifespan as one that is adhering to the OEM's GVWR?
Probably not. OEM's set those GVWR's with safety and longevity in mind.


Some trucks can have simple suspension upgrades to allow for higher GVWR since the underlying platform is in fact rated for higher loads (Ram and Ford HD's would be a good example of that). The Tacoma does not fall within that category.

If you need to consistently carry weight that is beyond the Tacoma's GVWR, find a different truck.

 

[Clutch]

It is important....but most (including "lightweight" camper manufactures) don't really give a ********, and do whatever they want. FTMFW!

 

[tacollie]

It is important....but most (including "lightweight" camper manufactures) don't really give a ********, and do whatever they want. FTMFW!

The camper manufactures don't make people overload their trucks. People do that.

I think that if you plan on being over weight you need to plan extra cost into maintainance. I also think you need to drive accordingly.

I find it interesting we talk about legal issues with GVWR but we don't about legal issues regarding 35" tires on long travel suspension with no sway bars. What about aftermarket bumpers?

 

[bkg]

What, exactly, are the legal issues with tires, suspension or sway bars?

 

[Clutch]

The camper manufactures don't make people overload their trucks. People do that.

I think that if you plan on being over weight you need to plan extra cost into maintainance. I also think you need to drive accordingly.

I find it interesting we talk about legal issues with GVWR but we don't about legal issues regarding 35" tires on long travel suspension with no sway bars. What about aftermarket bumpers?

Well...they don't give much wiggle room...is what I am referring to. Go add up the wet weight (with H2O and Propane) of a base model Swift FWC. I got 1,111.80 lbs on my fuzzy math calculator. Using that, since that model is meant for a DCSB Tacoma because it seems to be Toyotas most popular configuration, which has a payload of 1175 lbs. So they gave you 63.2 lbs of wiggle room and you haven't even climbed in the driver's seat. Like I said, camper manufactures don't really care.

Thought threads like these we do generally talk about the legality of bumpers, winches, sliders and what they do to GVWR. Or are you referring to legal bumper heights, not running mud flaps, over size tires sticking out and whatnot? They will nail you here for those. Know a guy who was busted recently for oversize tires and no mudflaps on hIs 4WD van.

 

[jornvango]

There's all kinds of illegal stuff you can do to your rig. It's amazing how many don't think twice of putting a lot of equipment on their truck without keeping an eye on the GVWR. Same with me and my Wrangler: I added bigger wheels, a lift, extra equipment, a winch ... but I couldn't tell you what my GVWR is or if I'm close or even over with all that I added. Maybe less of a big deal when all you do is tow a Jeep into the mountains for a fun weekend trip, or drive it to work Mo-Fr. (although the insurance company may have a different opinion if you get into an accident where overloading your rig is deemed responsible)

Seeing that some of us overland (or are planning to), aka. live in their rig, for multiple years if all goes well, it becomes all the more important. Sure, some of the aftermarket stuff looks awesome, but when the rig is your home, dependability becomes super important. An overland truck is used in rough conditions and driven / lived in non stop, so wear and tear (and potential safety issues) becomes more important.

A FWC Fleet with basic extras (hot water heater, furnace, compressor fridge, solar, 2nd battery) weighs around 1,300 lbs empty. A double cab Tacoma has a payload of around 1,100 lbs. Add 2 people, equipment, a full water tank, propane, ... and you're potentially 700-800 lbs over the Tacoma's GVWR. But yet, FWC advertises their Fleet specifically for mid-size trucks like the Tacoma, Frontier or Colorado, well knowing that most customers will be over GVWR. Most dealers simply say "add a leaf and you're good". That may work for weekend campers but for true overlanding ... ? As if the extra leaf will fix all the other issues like brakes, frame, etc.

So yes, most truck camper manufacturers knowingly make their campers too heavy. It's up to you if you choose to ignore this as a customer, as many do (knowingly or unknowingly). For safety and durability, it's best to have too much truck for the camper. An equipped FWC Fleet at 1,300 lbs in other words needs a 3/4 ton truck at a minimum (and that's not even including the Ram 2500 Power Wagon with its pitiful 1,400 lbs payload...).

 

[Clutch]

There's all kinds of illegal stuff you can do to your rig. It's amazing how many don't think twice of putting a lot of equipment on their truck without keeping an eye on the GVWR. Same with me and my Wrangler: I added bigger wheels, a lift, extra equipment, a winch ... but I couldn't tell you what my GVWR is or if I'm close or even over with all that I added. Maybe less of a big deal when all you do is tow a Jeep into the mountains for a fun weekend trip, or drive it to work Mo-Fr. (although the insurance company may have a different opinion if you get into an accident where overloading your rig is deemed responsible)

Seeing that some of us overland (or are planning to), aka. live in their rig, for multiple years if all goes well, it becomes all the more important. Sure, some of the aftermarket stuff looks awesome, but when the rig is your home, dependability becomes super important. An overland truck is used in rough conditions and driven / lived in non stop, so wear and tear (and potential safety issues) becomes more important.

A FWC Fleet with basic extras (hot water heater, furnace, compressor fridge, solar, 2nd battery) weighs around 1,300 lbs empty. A double cab Tacoma has a payload of around 1,100 lbs. Add 2 people, equipment, a full water tank, propane, ... and you're potentially 700-800 lbs over the Tacoma's GVWR. But yet, FWC advertises their Fleet specifically for mid-size trucks like the Tacoma, Frontier or Colorado, well knowing that most customers will be over GVWR. Most dealers simply say "add a leaf and you're good". That may work for weekend campers but for true overlanding ... ? As if the extra leaf will fix all the other issues like brakes, frame, etc.

So yes, most truck camper manufacturers knowingly make their campers too heavy. It's up to you if you choose to ignore this as a customer, as many do (knowingly or unknowingly). For safety and durability, it's best to have too much truck for the camper. An equipped FWC Fleet at 1,300 lbs in other words needs a 3/4 ton truck at a minimum (and that's not even including the Ram 2500 Power Wagon with its pitiful 1,400 lbs payload...).

My take on it is. While yes you'll be overloaded...I rarely hear of any catastrophic failures when people do it with these mid-size trucks. While illegal on paper, these trucks seem to handle it.

That said, I won't do it...I like to be at about half capacity for my personal rig.

Like most things in life, leave it up to the person's own discretion. A lot of worst things happening out there in the World besides some overloaded campers.

 

[tacollie]

I guess I wasn't to clear. My point was the camper companies are just meeting the demand. I personally think pop up campers are silly. My buddy has a taco with a FWC. He also has E rated tires, custom should, and air bags. He drives like a grandma. I don't see any issue with his set up. I don't think he is endangering anyone's life. I would argue it's not dangerous when he drives his complete stock 1970 Chevy truck.

I've personally had a mid travel truck on 35s with no sway bars. That's not how Toyota designed it to be used. If I got in an accident could insurance deny the claim?

There was a forum member a few years ago who said he got in an accident with an aftermarket bumper on his Jeep and broke some teeth because his airbag didn't deploy correctly. Insurance wouldn't cover it.

We are modifying and using our trucks in ways that increase liability and maintance. Where do we draw the line?

 

[tacollie]

There's all kinds of illegal stuff you can do to your rig. It's amazing how many don't think twice of putting a lot of equipment on their truck without keeping an eye on the GVWR. Same with me and my Wrangler: I added bigger wheels, a lift, extra equipment, a winch ... but I couldn't tell you what my GVWR is or if I'm close or even over with all that I added. Maybe less of a big deal when all you do is tow a Jeep into the mountains for a fun weekend trip, or drive it to work Mo-Fr. (although the insurance company may have a different opinion if you get into an accident where overloading your rig is deemed responsible)

Seeing that some of us overland (or are planning to), aka. live in their rig, for multiple years if all goes well, it becomes all the more important. Sure, some of the aftermarket stuff looks awesome, but when the rig is your home, dependability becomes super important. An overland truck is used in rough conditions and driven / lived in non stop, so wear and tear (and potential safety issues) becomes more important.

A FWC Fleet with basic extras (hot water heater, furnace, compressor fridge, solar, 2nd battery) weighs around 1,300 lbs empty. A double cab Tacoma has a payload of around 1,100 lbs. Add 2 people, equipment, a full water tank, propane, ... and you're potentially 700-800 lbs over the Tacoma's GVWR. But yet, FWC advertises their Fleet specifically for mid-size trucks like the Tacoma, Frontier or Colorado, well knowing that most customers will be over GVWR. Most dealers simply say "add a leaf and you're good". That may work for weekend campers but for true overlanding ... ? As if the extra leaf will fix all the other issues like brakes, frame, etc.

So yes, most truck camper manufacturers knowingly make their campers too heavy. It's up to you if you choose to ignore this as a customer, as many do (knowingly or unknowingly). For safety and durability, it's best to have too much truck for the camper. An equipped FWC Fleet at 1,300 lbs in other words needs a 3/4 ton truck at a minimum (and that's not even including the Ram 2500 Power Wagon with its pitiful 1,400 lbs payload...).

I recently worked with a guy who has been wheeling all over Utah and Colorado. He is pretty experienced and a good driver. I asked him the dry weight of a stock JK and he told me the GVWR on the door seal. Turns out he didn't know what GVWR is. It's good we talk about this stuff.

 

[JaSAn]

. . . Some trucks can have simple suspension upgrades to allow for higher GVWR since the underlying platform is in fact rated for higher loads . . .

You cannot change the GVWR of a vehicle. In the US only a NHTSA licensed upfitter can legally make that change and they will apply a new door sticker stating the new GVWR, what was changed and who changed it. The factory sticker GVWR is the legal maximum a vehicle can carry irregardless of what modifications you have done to it.

If you are running over GVWR, read the exclusions in your auto policy. Some auto policies void for running overweight.

jim

 

[Clutch]

We are modifying and using our trucks in ways that increase liability and maintance. Where do we draw the line?

That is the thing, everyone draws the line differently.

I was at the gas station the other day, my truck is fairly reserved in the modifications department. While the guy next to me is a Chevy 2500 diesel with a 6" drop bracket lift sitting on 37's that probably never saw dirt judging how clean the under carriage was. Willing to bet his is far more a danger to himself and others than my humble Tacoma sitting on 32's...and 2.5" lift.