Bilstein v Carli (Fox) v Icon

Ducky's Dad

Explorer
BFG ATs are a very dated design. Newer designed tires like the Toyo AT or RT, Cooper tires, etc. will perform better and be as or more quiet.
20 years ago, BFG ATs were my favorite tire on full size trucks, but now I won't run them unless they are free. Too many issues with tread separations and poor wear. The early Power Wagon death wobble was traced to the OEM BFG ATs (yes, Dodge actually issued a TSB to that effect), so my PW BFGs went onto my GMC K1500 (IFS). Guess what? When the tires were half worn, the GMC got death wobble. Replaced/rebuilt everything that mattered and and still had DW. Goodyear dealer deduced that it was tread separation on the BFGs, changed the tires and the DW went away like magic. Since then I have been using Toyo MT and AT-II, and Nitto Trail Grappler and Terra Grappler with no issues. The Toyos are heavy but they are my preferred tire. To the OP, I strongly recommend getting whatever tire you choose in a Load Range E, rather than the D that the dealer will recommend. Better in the long run.
 

Tex68w

Beach Bum
20 years ago, BFG ATs were my favorite tire on full size trucks, but now I won't run them unless they are free. Too many issues with tread separations and poor wear. The early Power Wagon death wobble was traced to the OEM BFG ATs (yes, Dodge actually issued a TSB to that effect), so my PW BFGs went onto my GMC K1500 (IFS). Guess what? When the tires were half worn, the GMC got death wobble. Replaced/rebuilt everything that mattered and and still had DW. Goodyear dealer deduced that it was tread separation on the BFGs, changed the tires and the DW went away like magic. Since then I have been using Toyo MT and AT-II, and Nitto Trail Grappler and Terra Grappler with no issues. The Toyos are heavy but they are my preferred tire. To the OP, I strongly recommend getting whatever tire you choose in a Load Range E, rather than the D that the dealer will recommend. Better in the long run.

I have to whole heartedly agree in regards to the BFG issues and the Toyo's being currently the best option. The one downfall aside from price with the Toyo's is their weight, they are heavy across the entire line. While Nitto's are made on the same line as Toyo, I have found them to be of an inferior rubber compound. Every Nitto tire I've owned dry rotted and cracked within 15,000 miles. The new entries from Cooper and Falken are certainly worth mentioning and in a few years after they've had more time prove themselves, they just might be the top dogs. The new General AT has been getting good feedback as well.
 

Ducky's Dad

Explorer
I'm running Toyos on the PW and the Tundra, and Nittos on the GMC. The Nittos are probably getting close to five years old with no signs of rot. I'd prefer to run Toyos on all three, but I got a good deal on the Nittos, no complaints.
 

Explorerinil

Observer
Nitto, Toyo, falken and now general are all great tire options, bfg would not even be a choice for me. I have had great luck towing/hauling with Toyo and nitto. Last year I pulled a 10k trailer through a field in the winter that froze then unfroze as the day went on. At the time I was running Toyo at2, I was suprised how well they cleaned out and did not get clogged up with mud. Overall I have ran IROK,s, TSL radial, Toyo at2, Toyo rt and nitto terra grappler. For all around use towing, hauling, Daily driver and general off road I love the Toyo rt.
 

DVC

New member
I was about to buy a set of BFG KO2s until reading this thread... to those with negative feedback on the BFGs - were they the older KO version? (Not the new KO2?)

Tire Rack customer reviews rate the KO2 as the top on/off road A/T tire (#1 of 16)... but Tire Rack doesn't carry Nitto, and for some reason they only carry the AT II among the Toyo Open Country line (and it's not even on the ranked list).

I'm curious what people don't like about the KO2, as I've seen many positive reviews on it on various forums... in terms of its off road capability, on road manners, and also snow traction (it's a proper snow-rated tire, not just "M/S"). I have Toyo AT IIs now, and they leave something to be desired in the snow.
 

Tex68w

Beach Bum
I was about to buy a set of BFG KO2s until reading this thread... to those with negative feedback on the BFGs - were they the older KO version? (Not the new KO2?)

Tire Rack customer reviews rate the KO2 as the top on/off road A/T tire (#1 of 16)... but Tire Rack doesn't carry Nitto, and for some reason they only carry the AT II among the Toyo Open Country line (and it's not even on the ranked list).

I'm curious what people don't like about the KO2, as I've seen many positive reviews on it on various forums... in terms of its off road capability, on road manners, and also snow traction (it's a proper snow-rated tire, not just "M/S"). I have Toyo AT IIs now, and they leave something to be desired in the snow.

BFG AT KO's and AT KO2's are very much the same in regards to the tread pattern, the major changes were in the sidewall and siping, the main issues from the first gen to the third are still very much the same. The tires are notorious for not balancing out correctly, uneven wear, weak sidewalls, poor puncture resistance, and measuring undersized. They will always be considered one of the best AT tires out there simply due to their iconic presence and notoriety. Everyone recognizes them, they are a household name amongst the tire brands, and BFG simply advertises, promotes, and sponsors better than anyone. They do exceptionally well in sand and snow, but IMHO that's where it ends.

In the current market there are simply better options out there, Toyo, Nitto, Cooper, General, Falken just to name a few. In regards to Tire Rack, well they aren't the same company they were 10 years ago, their selection flat out sucks and their prices are no longer an advantage. That said, I'd take their reviews and top lists with a grain salt. In regards to the Toyo's I feel their two best tires are the Open Country MT and Open Country RT (think an AT/MT hybrid), I personally wouldn't mess with anything else.
 

Ducky's Dad

Explorer
I have used BFG ATs and AT/Ko's, but not the current versions because I gave up on them years ago. No reason to go back. Ran them on a couple of trucks and on a Grand Cherokee. My BFGs were pretty good in sand and OK in soft snow, and were great on paved roads at illegal speeds. Nice ride, great handling on asphalt, very predictable when driven hard. That on-road performance was probably the tradeoff for poor tread life. I don't know if BFG changed the tire in any major ways over the years I used them, but there was a noticeable decline in quality over the years, culminating in the death wobble/tread separation issues for me. There was also some tread chunking around the outside shoulder, which I have not seen on the same truck driven the same way with the Nittos. Another reason for my change was to go from Load Range D to Load Range E on all my trucks. BFG didn't have anything for me at the time I changed, and once I tried the Toyos (MTs on the first set), I saw no compelling reason other than price to use anything else.
 

lowfreqgeek

New member
Appreciate the continued thoughts everyone!


Yeah I haven't seen many people trash the 5100s and I think they would still be a good option, just weighing spending some more. It's not an easy decision. Any way I go I plan on switching out to the Mevotech control arms. They are just an OE replacement, but actually forged instead of stamped. I think it's worth the little extra to not have to worry as much about the UCAs. Don't think I'll end up going with the Icons though due to cost. The Rebel rims do look nice, haven't been able to find any locally unfortunately.

I went with the Icon UCAs because I wanted the increased articulation, but I didn't want to mess with a uni-ball. I liked the sealed/greasable Delta joint. Maybe it wasn't the smartest choice, but it's been good so far.

I found the Rebel wheels/Toyo tires with 2500mi on Craigslist in North Texas, for less than the cost of 4 new Toyo AT2s. I called the seller, decided he was legit (he'd bought them from a dealer for his Ecodiesel before upgrading to a Cummins), then I used Paypal for a layer of protection. What really made it possible was that my brother lives in the area and took delivery in person. You can find them, but it's not easy.

FWIW, I like the Toyos so far. I've put about 3500mi on them, but we haven't had much rain since I got them in November, so I can't really comment on their wet/snow/mud handling. It's been depressingly dry the last few months...
 
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bdp1978

Adventurer
I run the Bilstein 5100's all around on my Ram. For the $$$ you cant go wrong with them. Install took me about a whopping hr and a half including breaking down the OEM struts.
 

malibubts

Adventurer
Looks like I've got even more unanswered questions now haha. I really do like the Falkens from what I've seen, so I'll probably give them another look. I'll look more at some of the other options mentioned as well. The 285/75 17 size isn't super common so everything might not be available.

To the OP, I strongly recommend getting whatever tire you choose in a Load Range E, rather than the D that the dealer will recommend. Better in the long run.
Yeah, only going with load range E. As crazy as it sounds the stock tires are actually P rated, not LT. Pretty excited to get them replaced.
 

Dalko43

Explorer
20 years ago, BFG ATs were my favorite tire on full size trucks, but now I won't run them unless they are free. Too many issues with tread separations and poor wear. The early Power Wagon death wobble was traced to the OEM BFG ATs (yes, Dodge actually issued a TSB to that effect), so my PW BFGs went onto my GMC K1500 (IFS). Guess what? When the tires were half worn, the GMC got death wobble. Replaced/rebuilt everything that mattered and and still had DW. Goodyear dealer deduced that it was tread separation on the BFGs, changed the tires and the DW went away like magic. Since then I have been using Toyo MT and AT-II, and Nitto Trail Grappler and Terra Grappler with no issues. The Toyos are heavy but they are my preferred tire. To the OP, I strongly recommend getting whatever tire you choose in a Load Range E, rather than the D that the dealer will recommend. Better in the long run.

I forget which site (Carli or Thuren) had it, but one of them had a bunch of decent articles on issues inherent to the 3/4 and 1 ton platforms, including the so-called 'death wobble.' Tire selection was listed as a primary cause of that issue (BFG's KO's were specifically listed as a brand to avoid).

Either Carli or Thuren seem to have a well-earned reputation for building quality suspension kits for the domestic 3/4 ton's.
 

Bayou Boy

Adventurer
I forget which site (Carli or Thuren) had it, but one of them had a bunch of decent articles on issues inherent to the 3/4 and 1 ton platforms, including the so-called 'death wobble.' Tire selection was listed as a primary cause of that issue (BFG's KO's were specifically listed as a brand to avoid).

Thuren's site has those articles. Extremely good reading.
 

b dkw1

Observer
Toyo's were great when I lived in Kaliforniastan. Now that I am somewhere that has winter, they scary in wet weather and down right dangerous in the snow. Rubber compound is to hard which is why people get such great wear out of them. Went with General AT's this time, way better winter tire.

For shocks, Icon all the way. They have the most R&D going on and the best possible parts in there builds.

BTW, the majority of Fox off the shelf stuff is now made in Taiwan.
 

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