What is the BEST....High Altitude Solution for Heating?

LoRoad

LoRoad

Adventurer
We are building an EV, see here: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/116121-I-ve-been-doing-a-little-design-work

My primary question surrounds the use of diesel at high altitudes, is it or is it not an issue?

We've come up with what we think is a fairly good redundant system for heat, hot water, and engine/cab which goes something like this:

Primary:

Heating the inside of the box - Webaso Dual Top (mounts outside under vehicle, dual heat and small water tank (11 liters, hot water from this unit could be used in kitchen exclusively?), unit allows venting to be very easy throughout the cabin. uses diesel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAOOopVglHg&list=TLMakkjR5wh1hvKXp4J5Am_LBCMSlq7Vzp

Engine - AND Water Heater with large tank(s) available: Isotherm water heater with the engine heat exchanger heat both a water tank and keeps the engine block warm. but does not warm the cab like the webaso thermo top could. Benefit of this system is that it can use electric and/or produce hot water while the vehicle is in motion via the engine heat exchanger.
http://www.isotherm-parts.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=4_34

The entire video in the link above shows all three of webaso's RV products.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEFYhQjuVmU&list=TLMakkjR5wh1hvKXp4J5Am_LBCMSlq7Vzp

Secondary/Redundant?
Engine - Webaso Thermo Top - integrates with the engines water circuit and can heat the cab as well, can be operated remotely from w/in the box.

timemark: 5:36
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEFYhQjuVmU&list=TLMakkjR5wh1hvKXp4J5Am_LBCMSlq7Vzp

Perhaps the best choices would be, for max dual protection:

Shower: switchable between electric on demand and/or isotherm hot water tank (heats water while driving/or uses electric to heat water tank) (electric)

Kitchen Sink Hot Water & Forced Air Heater: Webaso Dual Top, could be plumbed to use in shower should isotherm fail. (diesel)

Engine/Cab - Webaso Thermo Top which can be used to heat the cab of the vehicle and the engine block. Additionally, instead of heating the cab, it could also or instead be used to heat the box. (diesel)

__________________

Since there are far more knowledgable people here on this forum concerning this/these issues, we would LOVE to hear your thoughts.

One thing we don't want to do, is gas/propane.

Thoughts?
 
Haf-E

Haf-E

Expedition Leader
Seems like its getting to be a lot of complexity - at some point a small generator and electric appliances, water heater and space heating would make sense... The cost and complexity of multiple diesel heaters (which all require electricity to operate) is another concern - when will a generator/inverter/battery make more sense...
 
T

trailnewt

New member
My Espar space heater does great at 11,000+ feet with the special high altitude kit available. I assume that Webasto has something similar.
 
LoRoad

LoRoad

Adventurer
trailnewt said:
My Espar space heater does great at 11,000+ feet with the special high altitude kit available. I assume that Webasto has something similar.
Click to expand...

I will have a look at the Espar unit(s) - thanks.

My understanding about the Webasto units is that even with the high altitude kit it's really only good up to about 9k ft. But you're saying you've not had any problems at +11k ft, wow that's really good to hear.
 
C

charlieaarons

Explorer
Unicat supplied me with a modification of the fuel system going to my Webasto Thermo Top C.
Basically two "T"s with a bypass from the fuel line from the pump-heater line to the fuel return line with a needle valve. One full turn every 1000m above 2000m. Essentially a partial short circuit of the fuel system.
Haven't installed it yet.

Charlie
 
Iain_U1250

Iain_U1250

Explorer
That sound like a clever way of reducing the fuel, let a bit bleed off. Sounds like it might take a little bit of fine tuning to get to work properly, but very simple and easy to install and operate.


charlieaarons said:
Unicat supplied me with a modification of the fuel system going to my Webasto Thermo Top C.
Basically two "T"s with a bypass from the fuel line from the pump-heater line to the fuel return line with a needle valve. One full turn every 1000m above 2000m. Essentially a partial short circuit of the fuel system.
Haven't installed it yet.

Charlie
Click to expand...
 
B

bee

Observer
Sounds neat using a needle valve to bleed fuel. Problem is you won't really know you screwed up till you fowl out the burner, at least that is what would happen to me.

Why not use just one thermo top and a water to water exchanger like you mentioned, and some water to air radiators. Shouldn't that be able to do everything you want? Then for redundancy keep a spare thermotop in a box in the cabinet. Would that be simpler?
 
N

nick disjunkt

Adventurer
We've just spent a couple of days at about 9,000 feet in Mexico in our motorhome and had no problems with either of our heating systems.

I have a Webasto Thermo Top 50 which heats water through a Quick BX25 calorifier, and gives a little space heating through 3 small radiators. It has no altitude kit fitted and it worked fine running for a couple of hours each day.

I also have an Eberspacher D2 blown air heater which has the high altitude kit fitted, this also worked fine for several hours each morning, although perhaps a little less effectively than normal.

We have a 550ah 24v battery bank and the impact on the state of charge, even when running both systems all night, is not significant. With 800w of solar on the roof we are always back to 100% by the end of the day if there is some sun.

On very cold days with no direct sun at all, we can get about a week out of our batteries before we get below 50% charge.

The winner for me on using diesel for heating is the quantity of fuel that you can carry with you. We have a 250litre aux tank for heating and the generator and in 3 months on the road, we still have about half the tank left. That's with a fair amount of cold weather and hot showers every day.
 
LoRoad

LoRoad

Adventurer
Thanks for the update Nick. When you've spent a week at the top of the White Mountains above 11,000 feet; WOULD LOVE TO HEAR HOW THAT GOES! :sombrero:


nick disjunkt said:
We've just spent a couple of days at about 9,000 feet in Mexico in our motorhome and had no problems with either of our heating systems.

I have a Webasto Thermo Top 50 which heats water through a Quick BX25 calorifier, and gives a little space heating through 3 small radiators. It has no altitude kit fitted and it worked fine running for a couple of hours each day.

I also have an Eberspacher D2 blown air heater which has the high altitude kit fitted, this also worked fine for several hours each morning, although perhaps a little less effectively than normal.

We have a 550ah 24v battery bank and the impact on the state of charge, even when running both systems all night, is not significant. With 800w of solar on the roof we are always back to 100% by the end of the day if there is some sun.

On very cold days with no direct sun at all, we can get about a week out of our batteries before we get below 50% charge.

The winner for me on using diesel for heating is the quantity of fuel that you can carry with you. We have a 250litre aux tank for heating and the generator and in 3 months on the road, we still have about half the tank left. That's with a fair amount of cold weather and hot showers every day.
Click to expand...
 
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