+d's grand cherokee - mod's/thinking outloud

[+ d]

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/8049/davidjeep15rq.jpg


Make: Jeep
Model: Grand Cherokee Laredo
Year: 2004
Engine: 4.0L
Trans: Auto
T-Case: SelectTrac NV242, 2wd, 4Hi full, 4Hi part, 4lo
Front Axle: Dana 30
Rear Axle: Dana 35 w/Auburn ECTED Locker
Tires: 255/70-16 BFG AT
Wheels: Stock 16x7 Sliverblade

Additional Modifications:
Front Suspension: Rusty's 2.5" lift Springs +.75" Spacer,
10" Bilstein 5150's (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11426&postcount=24), Limiting straps
Rear Suspension: Rusty's 2.5" lift Springs
Protection: KOR rock sliders, Jeep Front Skid Plate, Jeep Transfer Case Skid Plate
Recovery: Jeep Front Tow Hooks, Jeep Rear Tow Hitch w/ Warn Shackle
Stillen Rotors & Composite Pads
Old Man Emu Steering Stabilizer (Blacked Out!)
Aluminum Spare + Spare Tire Well Storage Mod
Cobra WX ST CB w/ Little Wil mag antenna, quick disconnect (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11178&postcount=16)
Hella Black Magic Auxiliary Lights
K&N FIPK
Silblades
Comfort Mods: Steering Wheel Radio Controls, Front Seat Swap,
Lighted Sun Visors, Cabin Air Filter, "shaved" antenna, ION Ipod Interface
Accessory Department: Hilift+Offroad Kit+Lift Mate, MV-50, Oasis Deflators

Pending Installations:
Spring Retainers!
Rear 10" Bilstein 5150's + Limiting Straps
Custom Headlight Harness + Hella Bulbs

On the Drawing Board:
Auxiliary Power System
Sway Bar Disconnects


Pipe Dreams:
4" Lift & 235/85-16's
Exhaust/Headers
Mojave (http://www.aev-conversions.com/Gallery/PB031384.jpg)/BajaTaco (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=547) style Hide-a-winch
Currie Rear End


Some Pictures:
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/9722/paintedgorgesmall0xv.th.jpg (http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=paintedgorgesmall0xv.jpg)http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/7522/deathvalleysmall9oq.th.jpg (http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=deathvalleysmall9oq.jpg)
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/8957/droopwithnewshocks5xz.th.jpg (http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=droopwithnewshocks5xz.jpg)

Locker Thoughts....
after watching a totally stock tacoma trd (w/ locker) driven by an offroad novice walk through an twisty turny wash that made my jeep barf up its springs (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=373) I've decided it was time for a locker. My old man/copilot likes the idea and has expressed interest in helping me out. I've been researching these for a while, it seems like the next logical step for me.

part of my program for modifications is that it doesn't substantially alter or complicate the way the jeep drives and looks. it is currently our (me + wife) only vehicle. so naturally my preference is for a selectable locker. these are what I understand my options to be:

ARB (http://www.arb.com.au/air_locker_design_engineering.htm) - Air actuated - $ 750 (http://www.4wheelerssupply.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/70989) + $ 265 (http://www.4wheelerssupply.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/70997) = $1015
pros: most popular option, forces onboard air, relatively easy to operate (2 buttons), easy to mount buttons, matching front locker available
cons: most expensive option (by far), air line actuation doesn't inspire confidence, most popular option (why follow the herd)

OX (http://www.ox-usa.com/Default.aspx?tabid=225)- Cable activated - $ 690 (http://www.4wheelerssupply.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/71213) + $ 80 (http://www.4wheelerssupply.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/71204) = $770
pros: reportedly bullet proof, comes with beefy (good looking) diff. cover, low tech, able to lock/unlock at diff if actuator fails, matching front locker available
cons: expensive option, mounting/placing/routing of cable and lever limited and maybe difficult (and more invasive), cable actuation may not be totally user friendly,


Auburn Ected (http://www.auburngear.com/oemdifferentials/ected/) - electric (supposedly available soon) - $ 550 (http://www.4wheelerssupply.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/71421)
pros: least expensive, push button operation, simple to mount switch and run wires..right?
cons: marketed as a traction control device...appears to wire into vehicle brain?, unsure of actual operation..not yet available



to complicate the matter part of me wants to take the opportunity to really gold plate the whole situation and upgrade my axles at the same time. dana 35's don't have a good reputation when it comes to big tires and torque (which isn't my situation now..but could be down the road). In which case I would be looking at one of the "Super 35" (or similar) kits from Superior, Yukon or Alloy Usa. These kits allow for a beefy 30 spline axle (dana 44 sized), I'd need a special Dana 35 30-spline locker, which appear to be available for all lockers listed above. This Yukon (http://www.4wheelerssupply.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/71095) kit adds 'ONLY' an extra $200 (though installation cost will increase as well I'm sure). Of course all of this hinges on finding an axle for the WJ or adapting to my 5x5 bolt pattern (which is different than every other jeep...%$!*ing Chrysler)

So, I'd really like some input from you guys. I'm anticipating a large number of votes for the ARB but something really draws me to the OX. Thoughts???

[Life_in_4Lo]

+d,
I don't know anything about the other lockers but I love the ARB. It's fast, reliable and... well, instant on/off is pretty awesome :)

I really don't know much about ZJ's but I wheeled w/ a bunch of Jeeps awhile back and this ZJ was flexing really nicely. It had fr/rr ARB's
http://homepage.mac.com/paintlab/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-02-14%2016.37.16%20-0800/Image-4AF4ED047EE811D9.jpg

[cshontz]

David,
I found this post on another forum, which reinforces my opinion as to which one you should use. You may install an OX and have no problems, but if you do have problems, it is questionable as to whether or not you'd have support for the product. For such an integral part of your four-wheel drive system, this issue alone make it very undesirable in my opinion.


They can say what they want about OX, BUT, its a company with a poor history at best and at worst you might own an OX with no company backing. Whether or not OX is good, better or great on the engineering front is still questionable. Early on they had some issues, supposedly resolved. Unless you wheel Sonic drive in or the field behind your house, I would be concerned on spare parts availability and company support.

I'm not poor-mouthing OX, just laying out facts.

ARB, established company, in use worldwide, parts availablilty, strong and they work.

OX may be better and stronger than ARB, the company may have ample funding to get a business foothold, grow and thrive. BUT for the time being, I put my money on the horse that I know will finsh the race, time and time again...

There are numerous ARB dealers all across the country that can perform expert installs, and expert service. Spare parts are in abundance, and we know the company isn't going to disappear anytime soon. The ARB Air-Lockers are time tested, and generally very reliable if properly installed and cared for. The ARB Air-Locker would be my recommendation.

I don't know anything about the electric lockers, but I'd trust a product from Auburn or Eaton. In any case, availability is a problem there.

Are you absolutely sure that's a Dana 35 you're equipped with? I know alot of the Grand Cherokees, both ZJ and WJ run an aluminum Dana 44 rear axle, but that might be for the V8 models.

I think a Superior axle upgrade (or Yukon equivalent) would be a wise choice with a Dana 35. The low cost, relative simplicity (compared to full axle swap), and added benefit of the modification would go a long way - providing you can find shafts with the appropriate bolt pattern. Or you could probably switch to a 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern pretty easily, but that would obviously require new wheels.

The Superior axle kit happens to be available with an ARB locker, which may allow you to kill two birds with one stone. You may have trouble finding compatible lockers if you ever choose to replace your ARB with something else. I think you might also need different part numbers for bearings and seals, so if you go with a Dana 35 upgrade, you might want to jot those part numbers down on a note and throw it in your glove compartment. They should still be common parts, so I don't think availability would be a problem.

The reputation of the Dana 35 upgrade kits is generally very good.

The weakness of the Dana 35 is exagerrated somewhat within the Jeep community. It is true - it is a weak unit that is prone to failure, but I don't think this failure is inevitable until one runs 33" diameter tires. However, I think if your off-road interests are expeditionary in nature, your vehicle might be heavier, and you might be driving further, so ... better safe than sorry! :)

[+ d]

thanks for your responses guys. i definitely have the Dana35, as my WJ is the 6 cylinder. Chris i appreciate the feedback on the OX brand, i cannot argue with the parts/availability logic. that can certainly help justify the added expense...in addition to the ease of installation, adding onboard air, etc.

i am certain that i will upgrade the axles at the same time. the grand isn't really big tire friendly...at a 2.5" lift i've got 30" tires and when i get up to 4" i'll be ready for 32" but that's where i'll probably max out. so i think i'll be safe with the dana 35.

the crux is the bolt pattern issues, ideally i could have a machine shop redrill and tap the new axles (is this feasible?). otherwise i am into conversion spacers, which will push my rear wheels out an inch (i'd have to space the fronts to match). new wheels aren't really an option since the front axle will still be at 5x5. Superior said they would do a custom axle but that it would be $$$.

[cshontz]

I've only looked at the Superior kit, but the pictured axle shaft shows multiple bolt patterns. The one pattern is obviously 5 on 4.5, but I wouldn't be surprised if the other is 5 on 5.

http://www.superioraxle.com/images/super35arb.jpg

[calamaridog]

+d,

So here is my question. Why can't you pull a used D44 out of a late model WJ and go from there. I would rather have the stock D44, stock axles, etc. than the Super 35 stuff.

What is your gear ratio?

And why the heck did they do 5x5 instead of the standard bolt pattern? Damn them:Wow1:

[Scott Brady]

The OX lockers have a reputation for being strong, but for having issues with engaging and disengaging easily. There are also issues with cables being damaged if you back into a rock. The engagement issue might not be that big of a deal with the rear axle.

The ARB's are the fastest of all lockers. Instant on.

It might be kind of cool to install one of the Jeep hydralic posi traction units in the front diff. Like the ones from the Quadratrac II Grands.

[OverlandZJ]

I havent experienced personally but i have read on numerous occasions where ARB's have broken when used in a D35, Chris you may have have some experience with this at OK?

Are WJ and ZJ rear axles interchangable? I think they might be.

If that's the case and your not in a hurry...i routinely see XJ rear 44's with GC brackets and Ford 8.8 with GC brackets occasionally for sale on the web. You may luck out and get the right selectable locker and gear ratio also.....and save alot of change. With the 4.0L and 32's you'd be good with 4:10 or 4:56 ratio.

The XJ rear 44 will be the same width, but you'd have the 4.5" bolt pattern. New shafts from Dutchman ~$125 (XJ shafts dont have enough material to redrill to 5.5").

The 95+ Ford Explorer 8.8 will be slightly narrower but you could use spacers that also swap the bolt pattern to 5.5" and end up with a near stock GC width. The 95+ would come with factory rear discs also.

I realize your only planning on 32's max but i dont see any reason to throw money into a rear axle that's weak point spits a tire out from under the vehicle.

[calamaridog]

I have a KJ (Liberty) and it comes with the Corporate (Chrysler) 8.25" axle. This axle is fairly stout, especially compared to the D35. Some of the KJ's came with D44's I think.

03 KJ's had rear disc brakes too. This may be a possible swap also. An 03+ KJ Corporate 8.4 or D44.

I just don't understand why they would stick a D35 under the rear of that thing? You got cheated by some Suit somewhere.

Do you have ABS and/or rear discs?

I agree you should start looking for a beefier rear axle to start this build, if you can. I'll keep my eyes open:Wow1:

Try giving these guys a call:

http://www.jwjeep.com/index.html

And search wrecking yards online.

[cshontz]

I havent experienced personally but i have read on numerous occasions where ARB's have broken when used in a D35, Chris you may have have some experience with this at OK?

I think they have improved the design of the Dana 35 Air Locker within the last several years. Unfortunately, I don't know the technical nature of the change.

One of the problems, if I recall correctly, was bent Dana 35 axle housings, which would pretty much cause the ARB to break up into a gazillion pieces. I haven't heard of this lately - but installers should always make sure the tubes are straight before attempting to fit a locker.

The only reason I recommend the Superior upgrade because I think it would permanently resolve most issues with the axle, especially for someone with medium-duty needs. It is effective turd polishing, if you will. :)

[cshontz]

I havent experienced personally but i have read on numerous occasions where ARB's have broken when used in a D35, Chris you may have have some experience with this at OK?

I think they have improved the design of the Dana 35 Air Locker within the last several years. Unfortunately, I don't know the technical nature of the change.

One of the problems, if I recall correctly, was bent Dana 35 axle housings, which would pretty much cause the ARB to break up into a gazillion pieces. I haven't heard of this lately - but installers should always make sure the tubes are straight before attempting to fit a locker.

The only reason I recommend the Superior upgrade because I think it would permanently resolve most issues with the axle, especially for someone with medium-duty needs. It is effective turd polishing, if you will. :)

[OverlandZJ]

I think they have improved the design of the Dana 35 Air Locker within the last several years. Unfortunately, I don't know the technical nature of the change.

One of the problems, if I recall correctly, was bent Dana 35 axle housings, which would pretty much cause the ARB to break up into a gazillion pieces. I haven't heard of this lately - but installers should always make sure the tubes are straight before attempting to fit a locker.

The only reason I recommend the Superior upgrade because I think it would permanently resolve most issues with the axle, especially for someone with medium-duty needs. It is effective turd polishing, if you will. :)

That's what i remember also Chris, the smaller OD and wall thickness of the tubes combined with the oval shape of the D35's center section did tend to cause enough deflection to explode lockers. Maybe their solution was conical side gears?..:hehe:

The Superior upgrade....does that eliminate the c-clip's also? I'v never followed the kits.

[+ d]

all excellent thoughts guys... in general i agree with the why-waste-money-on-the-weak-link philosophy but i think an axle swap is an exponential step that i am not ready to take. If there was a more plug and play option out there i might be more into it. but abs and discs complicate things. i have access to a full metal shop but i can't be vehicle-less for any duration. interesting thought on the kj's never heard of anyone going that route seems most guys that do axle swaps on the WJ's go big...9" sunray, currie, etc. unfortunately the dana 44 on the V8 wj's is actually a dana 44a (as in aluminium) and up until this month no one even made any locker for it at all (let alone selectable).

i still have mucho mas research to do. but the feedback i've been getting from some of the axle guys is that the dana 35's weaknesses can be overcome...stronger axles to prevent shearing the splines and a truss to prevent flex, which apparently happens only right at the diff housing.

the bolt spacing is still yet to be solved as well, the superior super 35 axles come with 5on4.5 and 5on5.5 doh! but i did get a lead on just having custom axles made from Moser Engineering (http://www.moserengineering.com/) i got a phone quote of $315 tops...interesting

[sacto_patrol]

Right now the only locker option on the ZJ and WJ Dana 44 aluminum is the aussie locker. I think the KJ axle will be much to short. To bad because I like the 8.25" axle. I had that in my 99 XJ and ran 35's all over the 'con and fordyce with no breakage, with a detorit. The 8.25" is just as tough as the 44, just has c-clips.

You are right as their is no cheap plug and play option. A 35 with axle upgrades will handle 32's with out a problem, plus you gain added clearance. The one thing is the axle housing is easy to bend. If you truss it you be fine and I am not talking about one of those bolt on truss.

[calamaridog]

I believe the rear track of the KJ 8.25 is aroung 59" and so is the WJ rear end. You could definitely pull an 8.25 with disc brakes out of a 03+ Liberty Limited, many of which were equipped with ABS. I believe this would be as close to bolt-in as you will find.

Sticking with the 35, trussing it, and doing the Super 35 upgrade sounds like a good plan of action. Good luck +d, when you are ready to test the locker, I'll tag along:jump:

[+ d]

Well the most recent mod was a CB...
As with most of my other mods stealth was a priority when it came time to install a CB. For this reason i went with the Cobra WX ST (http://www.cobra.com/index.php?page=shop/flypage&product_id=5&id=1) . I narrowed my antenna options to a mag mount Wilson, because of budgetary constraints (as with most of my other mods) i opted for the “Little Wil” (http://www.wilsonantenna.com/lilwil.htm) (no apparent relationship to flyingwil) which is an entry level version of the Wilson 1000/500. If I decide to step it up, replacing the antenna is easy enough.

The idea was to wire in a disconnect of sorts that would allow me to remove the antenna for normal street use, but be able to quickly attach it for adventure. The images should be fairly self explanatory, basically i tried to find a dash location and then run the cable through the interior to the back hatch, fortunately there was an existing rubber grommet that i pierced through to run my cable to the outside. the only real obstacle in this install was the length of the wire, it was too short to just run down the side of the jeep, over the drivers footwell and terminate at the center console, so i had to cut a corner and shoot over to the center under the drivers seat. let me know if you guys have any questions. and thanks for your help/comments! (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=712)

Here's the installed Cb...
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/9393/1CBpluggedin.jpg

The connection box fit pretty well directly underneath the dash cubby
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/7100/CBboxback.jpg

Cobra supplies all the goods needed for a fairly clean install, though i drilled a hole and fit their grommet with out their included plate for the cleanest look. here is a similar install, (http://www.kraneburg.com/?p=cobra&t=Jeep%20WJ%20-%20Cobra%20CB%20WX%20CB&q=2) though i don't have heated seats, so was able to retain the power plug
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5695/CBconnectionback.jpg

i picked up the connector parts at Mud Shack on El Cajon Blvd out near SDSU (they are Boston Mangler approved)
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5052/connectionparts.jpg

I drilled through the rubber with a bit that was about half the diameter of the cable, its a tight fit! but i added sealant and an O-ring anyway
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/8832/cableexit.jpg

i attached the other connector to the remaining 9" tail on the antenna.
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/6362/antennaconnection.jpg

done, just had to insert the whip and tune (thanks kevin)
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/6123/antennaplacement.jpg

[Life_in_4Lo]

cool, I want to cut and add a connector just like you did to the cb wire. I'm going to have to get to the local radio snak

Maybe wrap the connector in some rubber or something so it doesnt rattle around or chip paint?

nice setup

[calamaridog]

:victory:

I'm finally installing mine too!

[+ d]

...Maybe wrap the connector in some rubber or something so it doesnt rattle around or chip paint?
good idea, perhaps a rubber cap that will protect the connection from the weather when disconected as well


I'm finally installing mine too!
in time for this weekend right!?

[calamaridog]

David,

Just wrap that sucker with electrical tape for the weekend if you don't have time for more elaborate measures.

And yes, I'll have mine installed. That way I won't have to use the portable.

[datrupr]

David, I like that idea of adding a quick disconnect. I am going to have to look into that, as my antenna does not have one, I had to stick within the realms of the budget also. Thanks for the tip, and very nice install.

[calamaridog]

David,

I was excited to see your truck in person this weekend. I really like your stealthy square tube sliders, very cool indeed. It sounded like they work really well too:D

Your CB sounded good too!

Do you happen to have the part number for those stem mounts? I think you said they were in the Bilstein catalog?

[+ d]

hey thanks bryan!
:D

part number? sure do...192228, msrp is $18 for the pair.
i reccomend getting them from ASI, which is right in El Cajon, 619-444-9766. i had tried to order them through offroad warehouse but they wanted to charge me $28!

let me know if i can supply any other info
here is a pic of them...
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4541/stemconversion8zx.jpg

[+ d]

just a little background on my shock setup/reasoning. after running the rancho 9000's for a while i decided that hydraulic wasn't the best option for me. and i never really utilized the adjustability. i have always been attracted to the bilsteins but they weren't making it easy to find a shock that would fit my application...they don't list full specs on all of their shocks. i started off with the intention of running the 5100's but their "custom application" ones only come with loops on both ends, (the WJ is stem top and bar pin bottom) which means i would have to run a bar pin eliminator kit and a shock loop conversion kit.

i'm only at 2.5" and may go up another inch in the future, so i wanted to run the longest shock i could fit so i can keep as much articulation as possible (now and later). with a front wheel totally stuffed i needed a shock that was about 15.5" compressed...but minus .4" for bar pin eliminators and minus 1.1" for shock loop conversions i only had room to fit a 14" compressed length shock! which basically means 8" vs 10" travel..

but i found out that the 5150's upper loop was adjustable to facilitate locating the reservoir, therefore the upper loop was removable and i figured i could fab a stem conversion. but when the latest edition of the bilstein catalog came out i found some subtext that mentioned a "stem conversion (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11425&postcount=23)" and a part number. tons of phone calls later i finally got ahold of a set and i saved 1.1" the other thing i was able to do was mount my bar pin eliminators upside down, effectively adding to my allowable compressed length.

10" bilsteins were a perfect fit, and they ride sweet.

i did extend my bumpstops about .5" just to keep from over-compressing the shocks, and i added limiting straps to prevent over-extending them. though after this weekend it was apparent my limiting straps stretch enough to allow my springs to fall out!

[elcoyote]

Just my 2 centavos on the ARB and Dana 35 combo...my experience was terrible. Started with the old style ARB that had the C-clip eliminator kit (1993), went through 5 axles, the fifth separating from my MJ at 65 MPH in a curve, not pretty. ARB repaced everyone of them under warranty. Finally they up-graded me to the "New" style that retained the c-clip (1998). The cross pin fractured twice, jamming itself between the ring & pinion at speed...lots of rubber left on the road. Sooo, 5 axles, 3 ARB units and two D-35s later, I ditched the ARB for a Dana 44 and a Detriot. This has been running rock steady for 6 years now with out a hiccup, and that includes off road towing duty.

[Scenic WonderRunner]

David.......

It was fun exploring with you on Sat.....!

Your jeep rocks!

Lets all do it again soon!

~Mark

[+ d]

...my experience was terrible...
wow, that has got to be the worst first hand dana 35 horror story yet!

well, after all of the input i am thinking of another direction, rather than build my self a very expensive house of cards, i am thinking of trying the lunch box locker approach. they offer a significant savings in price and labor since i can install it myself in the driveway. the money saved will go into other much "needed" mods, finishing the rear suspension, spring retainers (!), a fridge (?), etc... meanwhile the ultimate goal will be to save up for an axle swap, perhaps a Currie Dana 44...

as i understand it there are some side effects for such easy, cost effective moves, the road manners of a locker take some getting used to. but i think that my wife and i are conservative enough drivers that it could be okay. worst case, if it is intolerable, i can remove it myself and go back to an open diff.

The units i am looking at are:
Powertrax NoSlip (http://www.powertrax.com/) - $380
Detroit Easy Locker (http://www.tractech.com/Products.htm) - $260

Any thoughts or experience with any of these?

[+ d]

David.......

It was fun exploring with you on Sat.....!

Your jeep rocks!

Lets all do it again soon!

~Mark


agreed!

(i've got a video of you in the 'runner that i need to send you.)

[Scott Brady]

I used the No SLip in my Grand for several years with great success. No complaints and I installed it in a few hours.

[cshontz]

I composed two relatively thorough Powertrax No-Slip reviews several years ago for Rockcrawler.com, you might find them informative.

Rear:
http://www.rockcrawler.com/techreports/powertrax_tj/

Front:
http://www.rockcrawler.com/techreports/powertrax_tj/front/index.asp

In summary, my opinion is that the Powertrax No-Slip is durable, and effective. It performs as advertised, provides a 100% lock, and compared to other lockers in its class, it is marginally smoother.

For instance, a Powertrax Lock-Right (nearly identical to Detroit EZ) will audibly ratchet to an extent until engaged, while the Powertrax No-Slip will differentiate with little or no chatter before it is engaged. While I've never run a Lock-Right in my own vehicle, most of the folks I know are perfectly happy with its operation, both on-road and off.

I did have a problem with my front Powertrax No-Slip not engaging properly. I uninstalled and reinstalled, only to discover that everything seemed to be okay. The problem persisted, and Powertrax replaced the unit. The second locker functioned as it should have. I was concerned at the time, but it seemed to have been an isolated case.

That being said, I would not do it again on my daily driver. The Powertrax No-Slip was tolerable at first, but the pavement mannerisms did start to get on my nerves over time. I ultimately uninstalled the lockers in favor of spider gears because I was spending alot of time on the road. This time around, I'm going to install manually operated lockers or nothing at all, as I enjoy on-pavement touring almost as much as traveling off-pavement.

I will still recommend the Powertrax No-Slip or lunchbox lockers in general, because for the price you pay, and the little work you have to do, the off-road performance gain is nothing short of amazing. As you mentioned, it is an easily reversible modification.

I hope that shed some light, David. It should be noted that my experience with lunchbox lockers was in a Jeep Wrangler with a manual transmission. Driving characteristics might differ slightly in your Grand Cherokee. Good luck with whatever you decide to go with! :)

[Scenic WonderRunner]

agreed!

(i've got a video of you in the 'runner that i need to send you.)

Very Kewl David!

Thanks very much!

You all were so great on taking pics.

OH.......and about Lockers..........I'm considering the "Aussie" (http://www.offroadlockers.com/home.php/AUSSIE/.html)at $239 ......you can read up on it at their site.

~Mark

[calamaridog]

A friend of mine installed the Powertrax No-Slip in his 2wd Ranger for added traction several years ago. He drove it daily for years and loved the product.

I would consider going this route as well.

[durango_60]

I have a powertrax no-slip in the rear of my 60, absolutely love it. My theory is as long as you are driving a vehicle without excessive power it is a great option. In the 60 I can't even tell it is there on the street, no clicking, nada. On the other hand, I won't even consider an auto locker on my supercharged 80.

Now the lockright that I have in the front of the 60 does not get such a good review, really difficult to steer in high traction areas. Nothing wrong with the lockright, I just wish I had put a selectable locker in the front.

[+ d]

...Now i just need to find a supplier, as i mentioned in the other locker thread the best price i have found is $365 at Rocky-Road.com (http://www.rocky-road.com/noslip.html)...

[calamaridog]

David,

I checked several sites and that is the lowest price I've seen:beer:

You going to do the install yourself?

[+ d]

After several months of debating, weighing pros and cons, reviewing budgets and general head scratching. I bought an Aussie Locker and installed it with the old man a few weekends ago. It went right in, instructions were clear and concise. Sealed up the diff, filled it with gear oil and took it for a spin...
ugh, not fun. Turns out it wasn't the product for me. Way, way louder than anticipated. Corners, even with a slight amount of gas, were not pleasant. The back lash was terrible, shifting into reverse made a loud metallic thunk that turned heads in the parking lot. After a bit of back and forth with Aussie Locker tech support we resolved that everything had been installed correctly, but, we were at the upper end of the tolerances. And apparently tighter is better on these things. Wish we had known that during installation, we kept the original thrust washer since the jeep only has 20k, and we were within tolerances...

So we were faced with the conundrum of installing thicker washers and hoping that a couple thou would drastically improve the manners, or, take out the Aussie and put in a different lunch box locker (Like the Powertrax NoSpin which, given the advice here, I should have probably opted for in the first place. But I thought I could go cheap and the click-click would be okay), or, bite the bullet and pay to have a selectable locker installed.

Well the Aussie had to go, and rather than waste another whole day (I really am supposed to be studying) and take a mod step backwards by returning to an open diff. I decided to cut my losses, do it right, and try an Auburn Ected (http://www.auburngear.com/oemdifferentials/ected/)...
There were several things that attracted me to, and made me settle on the Ected. Primarily, the price, at $550 it’s the least expensive selectable locker that I know of. Also the Ected is a limited slip when it’s not “locked” which seems like a bonus and actually achieves its locked state by mechanically compressing the clutch pack. Which seems like it would offer a certain amount of smoothness that could benefit my “fragile” Dana 35 axle. Auburn is a fairly well respected company and also offers a complete replacement program for $100. The Dana 35 Ected just came out a month ago but other Ected applications have been around for years.

I was able to get a good price from 4wheelersupply.com (http://www.4wheelerssupply.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/470_496_22_503) and lined up MIT in El Cajon to do the install. They were pretty amenable with me trying to save money where ever possible; installing the locker that i bought elsewhere, letting me supply the gear oil and removing the labor for the wiring from the install cost. I took the jeep by last Friday (when I should have been heading out toward Yuma to rendezvous for the Black Mountain trip). Dropped it off and walked to the nearest borders book store where I camped out for most of the day, reading those expensive Land Rover mags and studying for my next exam.

Well, so far so good, the rear is tighter now than it was stock and it’s totally transparent on the street. The locker itself and the thoroughness of the wiring and components exude a degree of quality. I have yet to do the wiring (I’d kill for a free weekend) but am looking forward to testing out on an expo trip soon!

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/8697/ected10aw.th.jpg (http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ected10aw.jpg)

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/6791/ected14wq.th.jpg (http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ected14wq.jpg)

[CLynn85]

Very cool. I'd love to put an E-locker in the TJ, but the durability of the D35c is a serious concern. Having personally seen one break on only 32's with light wheeling, I'm hoping to stumble across a nice D44 or 8.8, though unlikely. Either that or considering upgrading the stock shafts in the D35 and going really light on the skinny pedal.

[cshontz]

Very interesting, David. I'm sorry to hear about your experience with the Aussie. However, I'm really excited to hear your opinion of the ECTED. I may be interested in those if they are reliable, smooth operating, and lower maintenance than an ARB. I even sent Auburn an e-mail asking about availability for my Chrysler 8.25 rear. My curiosity is piqued. :)

[Scott Brady]

This will be a great mod to watch! As my buddy Pasquale always says, buy the best and bleed once...

[+ d]

As my buddy Pasquale always says, buy the best and bleed once...

That's very quotable, i'll have to add that one to my collection!
along with... "never time to do it right, always time to do it twice" and "work smarter, not harder"


We were surprised to find that i did NOT have C-clip axles...which makes me feel a bit better about the bad rep of the Dana 35's. And now with the experience of pulling the axle shafts in a controlled environment I feel more confident about the relatively minor tools and time necessary to replace axles on the trail. I am probably going to start looking for a spare set to keep on hand during more remote adventures.

Just gotta get this thing wired up and test it!
:gunt:

[Scenic WonderRunner]

David....

I'm so sorry you had so much trouble with your Aussie!

So.....does this mean I should not even bother with an Aussie>?!!!!


~Mark

[+ d]

Mark, given my experience I could never recommend a lunch box locker to anyone, for me it was a waste of time and money...BUT obviously they do work out for many people (Scott had good luck with a NoSlip on the same vehicle). So my assessment is that they are a bit of a gamble, some times you win, sometimes you lose.

Knowing you and your rig a bit, I'd vote for a selectable locker. I always say buy the best, bleed once!

[Boston Mangler]

Hey David

Sorry, i am just getting on this thead. Good choice with an electric selectable locker!

I have owned 2 Jeeps (both leaf sprung wranglers) with lockrights and both were awesome and survived a couple years of east coast wheeling (both were installed in 8.8 rear ends though!).

Lunchbox lockers seem to be hit or miss for everyone. Some love them, some hate them, some wheel them in rocks with 35's and no problems and some blow them up on pavement with 31's! There doesnt seem to be any real explanation for why some experience heavy clunking and some say its smooth as silk. Maybe the manufacturing tolerances are floaty, i dont know! What i do know, is that a selectable is very nice :D

I have owned 4 jeeps (2 CJ's and 2 YJ's) and have hand built 2 of them from the ground up. I still dont know my 80 too well but i know jeeps and that D35 like the back of my hand. Let me know if you need a hand with it!

May i PLEASE STRONGLY SUGGEST upgrading to stronger axle shafts with your elocker?

The D35 is a great axle, despite all the bashing of it, but the shafts are like toothpicks! I have personally witnessed 3 of them break on the trail and 1 on the pavement! All 4 of them have broken in the exact same spot too!

I strongly suggest upgrading the shafts and there are plenty out there. The locker is going to put even more strain on the weak stock units, and they WILL break! Trust me on this one!! :D I have done this on many jeeps and can give you a hand if you'd like, its actually very easy!

Just thought i would add my .02! You have a very nice and clean looking rig with some very nice mods to it! If i am not mistaken, Kilby makes a kit to bolt on a York for OBA! :victory:

Hope all is well!

[+ d]

thanks for weighing in kevin,

as soon as i recover from the expense of the locker i think aftermarket shafts are a good idea!

meanwhile i have a major electrical project in the works, the parts for which i have been amassing for a while. hopefully i'll get a spare weekend soon to start that and wire up the locker

[Boston Mangler]

thanks for weighing in kevin,

as soon as i recover from the expense of the locker i think aftermarket shafts are a good idea!

meanwhile i have a major electrical project in the works, the parts for which i have been amassing for a while. hopefully i'll get a spare weekend soon to start that and wire up the locker

No Problem Dave!

What is this electrical project you have going on? I am curious because you CB Install was super clean and very well done!

As far as shafts being a good idea, its more like a requirement. You gotta trust me on this! :D

Is the locker already installed? If so, who did it?

[The Swiss]

We were surprised to find that i did NOT have C-clip axles...which makes me feel a bit better about the bad rep of the Dana 35's.
David,

I wheeled my WJ during the last 5 years, sometimes pretty hard and never had a slightest problem with the Dana 35. I had no locker though, just a good working e-brake and a lot of flex in my axles. I was running 245/75-16 BFG AT and MT, OME HD springs, 1.25 front and 1.75 rear spacers, DoetschTec shocks, discos in the front and no sway bar in the rear.