All Terrain Campers

[kcowyo]

New company with 2 guys formerly with Four Wheel Campers, making a similar pop up slide-in unit with a lightweight aluminum frame. I don't know anymore than that, just sharing a link to their website.

Linky - All Terrain Campers (https://www.allterraincampers.com/Home_Page.php)

[robert]

Those look really nice but I bet FourWheel camper's lawyers call and discuss their designs with them (they look like a straight copy). I'd love to see some competition drive prices down though.

[oly884]

KC, I saw that too, thought it was interesting with how it looks exactly like our 4WC's. I'm sure there has to be some legal things going on there, even if they signed a non-compete.

[Colorado Ron]

sorry, but I dont support people that take others EXACT ideas and try and profit from it. Come up with your own design guys. Lame in my opinion.

[Doin_It]

I agree 100% with you there Ron
sorry, but I dont support people that take others EXACT ideas and try and profit from it. Come up with your own design guys. Lame in my opinion. but that is the " American way". A good friend of mine who started, http://solatube.com has had to sue a couple of companies because they copied his ideas. So you see even if you have an idea, or you hold patents, as Dave did, you have to be willing to back it up with lawyers and law suits to protect your ideas, patents and company. Go figure, as I said, it's America, and people can try those stunts here. Unless of course you are the U.S. goverment, then you sue online British gambling companies because U.S citizens are gambing with them and online gambing is illegal in the U.S., again..............its America, go figure.

[OutbacKamper]

sorry, but I dont support people that take others EXACT ideas and try and profit from it. Come up with your own design guys. Lame in my opinion.

I think you may be jumping to an unfair conclusion here Ron. One of the owners of all-terrain used to own 4wheel until 2001, so it is possible (likely?) that he owns the rights to this design. I know that the lift system is patented.

Cheers
Mark

[pskhaat]

But campers themselves aren't exactly a patentable idea, or even IP that could be contested. Just because Ford makes vehicles doesn't mean Suzuki can't.

Even with a valid legal claim, there could be innovation in these that are not the original product.

Patents and intellictual `rights' IMO at the end of the day are anti-market. If you can do it better, and you can do it cheaper, AND people want to buy it over the other options, you now have a market. Legally restrict that?

[VikingVince]

KC,

Interesting find...they really do look like a close copy. I haven't checked FWC prices lately but these guys look to be priced about the same...right? Do you happen to know when they started their own company? Actually, I wish they were substantially undercutting FWC's prices (to gain market share)...I might buy a new one then!

[bigreen505]

Since everyone is jumping to conclusions with no information, I'll join in. Since the lift is patented (assuming the patent has not expired) and they were formerly with FWC, what is to suggest that they didn't simply license the design?

Because it is similar does not mean it is an exact copy or a design ripoff.

[articulate]

New company with 2 guys formerly with Four Wheel Campers, making a similar pop up slide-in unit with a lightweight aluminum frame. I don't know anymore than that, just sharing a link to their website.

Linky - All Terrain Campers (https://www.allterraincampers.com/Home_Page.php)
What the inqusitive and tolerant public wants to know (other than "who owns the idea behind this one? Let's go rape and pillage the guy who stole from FWC!") is how many splattered bugs will that thing mount upon it's flat and foward-facing surfaces if it were On The Road w/KC?

Ewwwwww!

[kcowyo]

Lame in my opinion.

You know what I think is lame? People who post trivia questions (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2625)and NEVER get back to us with the answer! ;)

I'll let the legal beagles worry about patents, etc. I don't know anything about all that and I genuinely couldn't care less. I just posted a link so this forum can have as much information as possible for those seeking it.

Vince, their prices are within $500 per unit of similar FWC's from what I can tell. It looks like they're just getting out of the gate and starting to take orders. It would be nice to see the prices come down, but then you get what you pay for in this world, right? Oh, and buy used. Much better value than buying new, methinks.

Let the witch hunt resume.....:rolleyes:

[bigreen505]

Let the witch hunt resume.....:rolleyes:

No need. I can tell by looking at it that it weighs more than a duck. Clearly not a witch.

[kcowyo]

...... I can tell by looking at it that it weighs more than a duck....

:xxrotflma

Like I said, I don't know nothin bout em.

I do wish Ron would answer the trivia question though....:box:

[flywgn]

...I do wish Ron would answer the trivia question though....:box:

Maybe Ron ran outta' gas before he found the answer.

Allen R

[ben burnett]

Hello to everyone,

I am the former owner of Four Wheel Campers. Just thought I would join and answer a few questions.

There is no longer a patent on FWC. It expired in 2001.

My covenent expired in April of 2006.

We are actually about 1200.00 cheaper than FWC currently and that will be even more when they raise prices at the first of the year.

FWC has changed since I sold the company and seem to be competing more with the RV market than I did. That is part of the reason that my old production manager and a former employee decided to start up All Terrain Campers. We have gone back to building the basic camper that we used to without a lot of the extras that FWC now offers.

FWC still makes a great product. They have options now that we never offered while I owned the company and that we still do not offer with our new company.

What we offer our customers is a basic camper like we used to make and customer service that can not be equaled.

There are no legal battles between us and FWC. I refer customers to them on a regular basis that are looking for something more than what we offer. The market is large enough for us all to compete in and there is no reason why we can't get along in it.

We also have been able to help a lot of the older FWC customers with some problems that they have from time to time when FWC was unable to get back to them or was unable to answer thier questions. My old production manager, Jeff Wyant was with FWC for almost 30 years and knows the older campers inside and out. His expertise on the older models is irreplaceable to some of the older customers.

We started the business to sell campers and make a profit. That is true of any company. We are also here to help anyone who needs information though, be it our customers or someone else's. That is just part of the service that any company should be willing to offer the public in our opinion.

Some people like our campers, some do not. We can't please everyone and that is why there are other manufacturers out there. Everyone has thier nitch in the market place.

We like to think that we have improved our old design a little with making the extended bed a standard feature instead of an option. We have increased the width of the campers a little to accomodate a larger cabinet, thus increasing storage space and water tank size. We have increased the size of framing in our campers also compared to what we used to build. We have kept the profile of the camper down to what it used to be to be more fuel saving. This of course limits us on some of the options that we are able to offer and in turn FWC fills that gap if a customer is looking for the options that they are able to offer and that we are unable to offer.

Happy Camping
Sincerely,
Ben
www.allterraincampers.com

[Scott Brady]

Hi Ben,

Thanks for stopping in and sharing the details. It is nice to see a few new options available.

The Overland market is sure growing! :088:

[BajaTaco]

Welcome to the forum Ben :ylsmoke:

[flywgn]

Welcome to ExPo, Ben.

I was parked next to a fellow over here on Silver Ck a month or so ago and was able to get a 'tour' of one of your campers. I forget which model, but the truck was a Ford Ranger.

You make a nice product. I was impressed with the workmanship and attention to detail.

Again, welcome.

Allen R

[kcowyo]

Welcome Ben!

I have found the people at All Terrain Campers to be extremely generous with their knowledge and helpful to many FWC owners on another FWC specific forum. Their passion and enthusiasm for this style camping solution and customer service comes through crystal clear in their responses to the many questions they are asked on that board.

Their expertise should be a very welcome addition to Expedition Portal, for current FWC owners and for those considering a similar solution.

Glad to have reps from All Terrain Campers aboard! :beer:

[slooowr6]

K.C.
Would you post a link to the FWC forum? This gives me another choice besides FWC Eagle! They are have a no sales tax promo going for Dec.

Alex
________
how to roll a joint (http://howtorollajoint.net)

[kcowyo]

I sent you a PM this morning with some links that you might find helpful Alex -

[ben burnett]

Thank you everyone for the kind words. Appreciate the comments also on those that have already seen our campers.

Again, if anyone has any questions about our campers or others, we will be happy to help if we can.

Sincerely,

Ben
www.allterraincampers.com

[slooowr6]

Just though I share the info.
Got off phone with Ben, the way ATC plans to mount the Bobcat on 06 Taco makes sense. I talked to FWC they have a steel bracket custom made to bolt on to the stock bolts that hold the composit bed. There are 2 issues with this approach, 1) The thickness on the bracket. 2) The bolts are 4" foot from the side of the bed. If it's extended to the planned eye bolt location at the corner of the bed, it going to create a lot of leverage on the bracket/bolt.

Update, I got a pic from FWC, they are going to put a high density rubber mat to solve issue 1). The bracker is bolt across the bed on two bolts so issue 2 should not be a problem.

ATC plan to add a bracket under the bed and mounted to the frame then the eye bolt will attach to the bracket through a hole drilled through the bed. So no pulling force will be apply on the bed itself.

Update: There is limited space under the front of the bed, not sure how a bracket can attach to the frame.

Ben,
Will this bracket be weld on to the frame or bolt on?

Alex
________
Honda S65 (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Honda_S65)

[ben burnett]

Alex,

It will be a bolt on. We deliver campers from time to time and to set up a welder along with a delivery would present some problems for us. With a bolt on application it can be done anywhere.

Sincerely,
Ben
www.allterraincampers.com

[elcoyote]

Ben,

Welcome to Expo! Thanks for sharing the historicals on your fine camper. The FWC definetly set the standard for all those who follow.

[ben burnett]

Alex,

We will attach the bracket to the side of the frame and come over to the eye bolt location. All the trucks that we have looked at have the room to do this on the frame in the 4 locations that we would need. This will eliminate the problem of any flexing that a strap might have and also eliminates the need for extra wood to level the bed of the truck so that the camper will slide in properly.

Sincerely,

Ben
www.allterraincampers.com

[haven]

Here's a nice testimonial from a satisfied owner of an All Terrain Campers popup. He says he has camped for about 200 nights since purchasing the camper in 2009. http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/index.php?/topic/3731/

The link contains interesting results for two mods: Adding Reflectix insulation to the camper, and adding a wind deflector between the roof
of the truck and the camper.

The All Terrain Campers website is https://www.allterraincampers.com/home.html