Toyota axles in a Jeep WJ

[Fergie]

Once upon a time, I swapped in a 5 lug Taco axle under my '95 XJ; I'm talking rear axle here. I'd like to do the same to my WJ, and have not been looking at Taco axles again, but possibly 80 or 60 series axles.

I'm not too concerned about the rear axle this time either, but have been contemplating how I would go about re-tubing the front axle from a cruiser, so that stock axles are useable(just on opposite sides), but wonder if the steering set-ups would even come close to being compatible.

I'm open to anything, so feel free to bounce ideas off me, or let me know how crazy I am.

The reason I'm thinking all of this out, is that I like the size of the WJ platform, but the drivetrain lacks dependability and parts availability in other areas. Short if buying a completely different vehicle, I'd like to explore this route first.

Thanks

G

[geeze]

I am interested in this also, is there a good page that gives good infomation on Toyota axles.

[cruiseroutfit]

Pass drop to driver drops have and can be done. Requires a bit of work but completely doable. Steering on an 80 series will have the DL behind the axle, however with a 40/55/60 axle the DL will be in front of the TR, so it should be easy enough? I've never heard of a swap into a WJ, however I've sold axle setups to guys in CJ's and Series Rovers.

[prepmech]

Re-tubing the axle would be a lot more of a pain than just starting off with an axle that is a drivers side drop to begin with, or using a new center section.

I'm not familiar with toyota axles, are they the same axles front and rear? Could you take a rear axle housing and cut it down to make a front axle housing out of it?

Another option would be the JK axles. They fit without as many mods as it would take to get the toy axles to fit.

[cruiseroutfit]

The design of the Toyota axle wouldn't actually require a re-tube to switch the drop, however the end work is nearly the same as a standard Dana'esque re-tube.

[Fergie]

I am interested in this also, is there a good page that gives good infomation on Toyota axles.

http://home.4x4wire.com/erik/diffs/


Pass drop to driver drops have and can be done. Requires a bit of work but completely doable. Steering on an 80 series will have the DL behind the axle, however with a 40/55/60 axle the DL will be in front of the TR, so it should be easy enough? I've never heard of a swap into a WJ, however I've sold axle setups to guys in CJ's and Series Rovers.

The DL was what I was worrying about. I don't believe there wil be enough clearance to the oilpan if I use an 80 axle. Off the top of your head, do you know the WMS-WMS of a 80 front verus a 60 front?


Re-tubing the axle would be a lot more of a pain than just starting off with an axle that is a drivers side drop to begin with, or using a new center section.

I'm not familiar with toyota axles, are they the same axles front and rear? Could you take a rear axle housing and cut it down to make a front axle housing out of it?

Another option would be the JK axles. They fit without as many mods as it would take to get the toy axles to fit.

I'm somewhat familiar with older Toy axles, and know that they can't be retubed the way Dana axles can, is this the case with 80 and 60 series axles?

I could always go with a diamond type axle, but that eliminates the cost benefit I'm trying to keep.

The JK axles might work for the front, but the same amount of fab work is required for the rear, no matter what type I go with...damn A-arm upper!

I'm also trying to get away from the odd ball 5x5 BP that the WJ uses, to either a standard Ford or Toyota BP.

I would really love the possibility of using Toy 3rd members too...in case of breakdowns and such.

[juicexj24]

http://www.mallcrawlin.com/forum//showthread.php?t=12701

That is a link to a build-up of a WJ that has some good info a 9" Ford axles for the rear. Might be helpful for you.

[ntsqd]

I'm curious what the motivation is for that particular axle choice. Seems like there would be other option(s) that were less effort to yield the equivalent or at least the maximum needed strength.

[DaveInDenver]

I'm curious what the motivation is for that particular axle choice. Seems like there would be other option(s) that were less effort to yield the equivalent or at least the maximum needed strength.
His motivation is worldwide spares availability. As far as that's concerned, the LC 9.25" axle is about as universal as any axle, rivaled only by Land Rover stuff. My guess is you'd find 40 and 80 series axles in just about every corner of the world. I'd bet the 80 series would be a safe choice, due to their use by the UN and that they are all the same basically. The 40 series I'd bet would be a toss up between what you'd find, course and fine spine axles.

[ntsqd]

Arguably the same could be said for Dana/Salisbury axles. Nothing against the Toyota axles (I own 4 sets of various versions), just seems like tabbing a set of Dana's to fit the stock suspension would be less work.

[DaveInDenver]

Arguably the same could be said for Dana/Salisbury axles. Nothing against the Toyota axles (I own 4 sets of various versions), just seems like tabbing a set of Dana's to fit the stock suspension would be less work.
Fer sure, probably can even get off the shelf Dana axles from someone that will be a weekend of work to get in. No messing with welding, 5 or 6 lugs, steering, etc. I'd had thought that something like a Dana 60 would be common enough to find parts for, too. I suppose you have to draw a line someplace and say that's good enough for commonality, eh?

[Root Moose]

As much as I like the Toyota stuff I think it might be too much of a PITA to go with the FZJ style stuff. The earlier FJ stuff will be too narrow. FZJ is ~63.5" wide. Earlier FJ stuff is narrower. IIRC ~56-58" wide.

The rear is offset which means pretty much having to go with custom shafts to center the differential... unless you swap t-cases as well. Things are starting to snow ball at that point and you've negated the reason behind going with the TLC stuff (relatively common everywhere). That and you'd have a hard time making me give up the flexibility of options with the NV242 transfer case.

I like the idea of the Mopar JK axle and the Mopar Dana 60 for the rear (export axles). They can be gotten in 5 on 5.5" pattern so it is more common. I converted my XJ to 5 on 5.5" so I know how you can get stuck on doing something like this. ;D

Doing the rear axle is not that big a deal is it? Besides, doing the Toyota swaps has the same issues that way.

I've got some various axle widths collected here: http://moose.ca/axle_widths

HTH

[Fergie]

I'm curious what the motivation is for that particular axle choice. Seems like there would be other option(s) that were less effort to yield the equivalent or at least the maximum needed strength.

Changing the rear axle will take the same amount of fab work no matter what type of axle I go with. I'll still need to add a bridge for the UCA mount, and adapt the brakes.

The front is what I am more concerned about

No matter what I do, I want to avoid custom axle shaft length, milling out brake rotors or anything of tha nature. I want commmon, off the shelf/junk yard available parts.

Both Toyota and Dana match that criteria, I just need to figure out the best combination.

[lowenbrau]

A few things to know...

Front axle shafts,
40, 60, 70 series and SFA minitruck short side axle shafts are all interchangeable.
60, 70 and SFA minitruck long side axle shafts are all interchangeable. These parts are very easy to source in most of the world.

Swapping to a left side drop would be no harder than doing a knuckle cut and turn. Nearly every springover Land Cruiser has had this done and it it well documented. Just swap the knuckle balls side to side.

Unless the rig is going to be vrey heavy I'd stick to minitruck stuff for a project like this. The 8" ring gear is up to nearly any task and the additional 3/4" off diff clearance comes in very handy.

[ntsqd]

If I might make a suggestion then? Start a notebook on the vehicle and always keep it in the vehicle. On the vintage race cars that I worked on we used 5 subject spiral bound notebooks. Any page or print-out that needed to be added to it got stapled in. Much more secure than a 3 ring.

Each subject was some aspect of the vehicle. Service part part-numbers, wear part sources, sketches of proposed modifications, tune-up specs, carb jets & trans ratios for different tracks, laps times or at least number of laps run, atmospheric conditions of each track day, etc.

Totally agree on only using unmodified, off the shelf wear parts. I don't understand why more folks don't do this.

[cruiseroutfit]

A few things to know...

Front axle shafts,
40, 60, 70 series and SFA minitruck short side axle shafts are all interchangeable.

The 40/55/60/leaf sprung 70 yes, the SFA minitruck is shorter yet and is not compatible with any of the Land Cruiser vintage.


Swapping to a left side drop would be no harder than doing a knuckle cut and turn. Nearly every springover Land Cruiser has had this done and it it well documented. Just swap the knuckle balls side to side

You also have to notch the housing for the ring gear and cut and rotate the front diff cover and move the drain plug. All pretty minor compared to the work of a cut/turn, but things to consider none the less.

[lowenbrau]

The 40/55/60/leaf sprung 70 yes, the SFA minitruck is shorter yet and is not compatible with any of the Land Cruiser vintage.




Thanks for the correction, Kurt.

[jeepboyd]

rock krawler makes the bracket for the rear and i think teraflex makes one that will work however both would use two uppers (triangilated) the krawler arms mount in the factory locations in the unibody. just a thought

[Fergie]

If I might make a suggestion then? Start a notebook on the vehicle and always keep it in the vehicle. On the vintage race cars that I worked on we used 5 subject spiral bound notebooks. Any page or print-out that needed to be added to it got stapled in. Much more secure than a 3 ring.

Each subject was some aspect of the vehicle. Service part part-numbers, wear part sources, sketches of proposed modifications, tune-up specs, carb jets & trans ratios for different tracks, laps times or at least number of laps run, atmospheric conditions of each track day, etc.

Totally agree on only using unmodified, off the shelf wear parts. I don't understand why more folks don't do this.

I actually started doing this about a month ago. I got tired of always hunting for tool sizes, quantities, etc.

I dunno...maybe a I just need to quit beating around the bush and get me a 60/62...

[ntsqd]

I just need to quit beating around the bush and get me a 60/62...
Fixed it! :)

[DaveInDenver]

I just need to quit beating around the bush and get me a 60/62...
You'd be driving a truck fixable in just about any place on Earth.

[Root Moose]

I dunno...maybe a I just need to quit beating around the bush and get me a 60/62...

Personally, I think an FZJ80 would be better. Closer to the creature comforts of a WJ and bullet proof while being just as supported.

$0.02

[AndrewP]

The FZJ80 would be a decent choice but I still think stuff for the FJ40 or FJ60 will be more available almost anywhere worldwide.. The later 70s and the 80 do share that oddball high pinion front diff, which would be my only hesitation about the 80 series drive train. Electronics are an issue too, and in that regard, the FJ60 shines. There are no electronics except in your stereo.

Maybe I'm missing something on Jeeps, but even if you had Land Cruiser axles, and available spares, what about the rest of the stuff on the truck? Outside of NA Modern Jeep spares will be few and far between.

Just take a Land Cruiser-If it were me, I'd get a nice FJ60, rebuild all the systems, and go. It's affordable, tried and true, with parts and knowledgable mechanics almost everywhere on earth. The ultimate "bush taxi".

[DaveInDenver]

Could a low pinion 8" diff work in the front of an 80 series in a pinch? Those are a dime a dozen anywhere there's more than a couple of Hilux trucks and those are pretty common, too. Heck, most people can't give away 4 cylinder third members it seems. I have junk to build up a couple 4.10 ratio ones myself and I'm far from a real hardcore hoarder.

But the advantage IMO for a FJ40/55/60/62 is that the diffs swap FR to RR and that'll keep ya going. Same as a solid axle Hilux, front can be used in the back if you need to keep moving.

[Fergie]

The FZJ80 would be a decent choice but I still think stuff for the FJ40 or FJ60 will be more available almost anywhere worldwide.. The later 70s and the 80 do share that oddball high pinion front diff, which would be my only hesitation about the 80 series drive train. Electronics are an issue too, and in that regard, the FJ60 shines. There are no electronics except in your stereo.

Maybe I'm missing something on Jeeps, but even if you had Land Cruiser axles, and available spares, what about the rest of the stuff on the truck? Outside of NA Modern Jeep spares will be few and far between.

Just take a Land Cruiser-If it were me, I'd get a nice FJ60, rebuild all the systems, and go. It's affordable, tried and true, with parts and knowledgable mechanics almost everywhere on earth. The ultimate "bush taxi".

You statement there really got me thinking. It was difficult enough to find a radiator when mine blew in Death Valley, other parts are just as failure prone and hard to find outside of a dealership.

If I got a LC, I'd do a diesel swap of some kind, I can't live with the 10mpg that they reportedly get.

I wouldnt mind an FZJ80 for the airbags and such, but need to convince the wife that the 60/62 is safe enough without them.

Who knows!

[ntsqd]

FWIW any of the modern (i.e. smog legal) gasser swaps are getting far better than 10. I'm looking to double that with my swap (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15440), though I suspect that I'll fall a little short. The combo that I'm thinking to use has done 50% better in a larger, taller, and heavier vehicle using the same axle gears and a slightly shorter and wider tire than planned (285's vs. 33-10.5's) while pushing ~75 mph (required speed for ideal engine rpm). Part of my plan is to go to 4.11's to bring the ideal cruise speed down to something more reasonable, which should help in several ways.

[AndrewP]

10mpg is really pessimistic, though that's about what my FJ40 gets with it's tired 2F. My FJ60 is my mileage champ, and I can get an honest 15 mpg on highway runs. I did even a little better (17) coming back from Pismo last year. That truck is not a bad expo truck as it has an OME lift, a 5 speed, 33 inch tires and 4.11 gearing.

I just got an FJ62 with an eye toward a manual tranny swap. I'm thinking the fuel injection, plus manual tranny should get me into the high teens for fuel mileage.

Still, decide honestly what you want, and what you plan to do. If you never leave the USA, stay with the Jeep and Dana axles (though I've seen a bunch of broken Dana 35s-if I had a Jeep, they would go immediately). If you are leaving the Americas, a Land Cruiser would be a better choice.

Good luck with whatever you build. IMHO just building for the sake of it is a legitimate end in itself. You always learn something.

[Root Moose]

I'll echo AndrewP: if you are not planning on leaving North America stick with the Dana stuff.

If you can't find a rad for a WJ in Death Valley what are the chances of finding one for a FJ6[0,2]?

Now to play devil's advocate.

FZJ80 vs FJ6[0,2]; where are you going that you can't get spares for a FZJ80? Antarctica? Even then...

Sure, the pure numbers might be higher of the older stuff but the 80 series has been pretty much every where and is still what is currently begin sold/used (As with 70 series). I think to pick a 60 over a 80 because of spares availability is biased for the sake of being biased.

Now, if you want a 60 series because it has less electronics, is simpler, is a touch smaller, whatever, have at 'er. But again, be realistic. If you aren't taking this rig where buggies normally tread I think it is a bit of a disservice to yourself wrt comfort, etc. Yeah, we are all "he-men" and can put up with a lot but if you are really going to be putting in 12+ hour days driving for days on end you'll be glad to have the coil suspension at the end of it.

Don't get me wrong, I love both platforms to death but at this point the 60 series is old. Hell, so is the 80. I really don't think you are giving anything up with a 80 over a 60 except for the "coolness" of driving something that looks and behaves retro.

But, what do I know? I drive an XJ. LOL

[Fergie]

I'll echo AndrewP: if you are not planning on leaving North America stick with the Dana stuff.

If you can't find a rad for a WJ in Death Valley what are the chances of finding one for a FJ6[0,2]?

Now to play devil's advocate.

FZJ80 vs FJ6[0,2]; where are you going that you can't get spares for a FZJ80? Antarctica? Even then...

Sure, the pure numbers might be higher of the older stuff but the 80 series has been pretty much every where and is still what is currently begin sold/used (As with 70 series). I think to pick a 60 over a 80 because of spares availability is biased for the sake of being biased.

Now, if you want a 60 series because it has less electronics, is simpler, is a touch smaller, whatever, have at 'er. But again, be realistic. If you aren't taking this rig where buggies normally tread I think it is a bit of a disservice to yourself wrt comfort, etc. Yeah, we are all "he-men" and can put up with a lot but if you are really going to be putting in 12+ hour days driving for days on end you'll be glad to have the coil suspension at the end of it.

Don't get me wrong, I love both platforms to death but at this point the 60 series is old. Hell, so is the 80. I really don't think you are giving anything up with a 80 over a 60 except for the "coolness" of driving something that looks and behaves retro.

But, what do I know? I drive an XJ. LOL

Well, the discussion may all be for naught....0331 ring a bell?

[Root Moose]

Well, the discussion may all be for naught....0331 ring a bell?

@!*#!

Yes - mine is a 2001 so supposedly I don't have to worry about it (fingers crossed).

You probably already know but for the search... it is possible to swap a 7120 or 0630 head. Search NAXJA for details.

[Fergie]

@!*#!

Yes - mine is a 2001 so supposedly I don't have to worry about it (fingers crossed).

You probably already know but for the search... it is possible to swap a 7120 or 0630 head. Search NAXJA for details.

Check your build date on your door. Mine is 11/00 for a 2001 WJ and I have the 0331 head, and subsequent crack from it.

[Root Moose]

Check your build date on your door. Mine is 11/00 for a 2001 WJ and I have the 0331 head, and subsequent crack from it.

Will do. IIRC mine is 06/01 but it's been a long time since I've looked it up.

Supposedly the 0331 casting was changed at some point in 01. I dunno how true it is but I saw this recently stated on NAXJA. I think by Dino but don't quote me on that.

That begs the question, is there a date on the 0331s themselves and is there knowledge of when they changed the casting?

If it were me I'd go for the earlier casting to be 100% certain.

[theksmith]

i just came across this thread while searching for other WJ info... not sure if it was previously posted, but did you know that IRO makes full swap-in JK Rubicon front and rear axle kits (including electric locker working)?

http://www.ironrockoffroad.com

they also just sell the mounting braketry and electronics for the locker to work if you have a good deal on used JK axles instead of going new.

[4Rescue]

i just came across this thread while searching for other WJ info... not sure if it was previously posted, but did you know that IRO makes full swap-in JK Rubicon front and rear axle kits (including electric locker working)?

http://www.ironrockoffroad.com

they also just sell the mounting braketry and electronics for the locker to work if you have a good deal on used JK axles instead of going new.HOLY... if you look at the "customers rigs" sectio n on that site, there are some AWSOME WJ's on there. I've never really liked the looks of these trucks, but man they aparently flex pretty damn good with some mods. adn of course tall skinny mudders make ANY truck look alot more impressive eh. Great link.

Cheers

Dave

[Fergie]

Okay, I'm thinking now that a full size axle would be perfect for this vehicle. The stock axle width is 63.5", to something in a 65" flavor would give me the track width, and the wheel spacing I need.

I'll do some in-depth research in to it tomorrow, but does anyone know off the top of their head what the WMS-WMS of a Dodge Ram is?

[Root Moose]

Sorry, don't know the Dodge.

IIRC the HP D44s in the late 1970s F250 is ~67". You can work with that with wheel offsets maybe?

For the amount of work to do this conversion, I'd try real hard to get a high pinion axle in the mix.

[Fergie]

I'll read through some of the HP44 tech on NAXJA to find out more info on the full size swaps. I'd prefer not to go as wide as 67", but we'll see how that goes.

I'm thinking a more modern axle may be required though.

I've got ABS and speed sensors to deal with; I don't know if the various systems used are proprietary to each brand or what, as far the ABS goes. The speed sensor I can easily work around, either by a GPS speedo, GPS mounted in cab, or a tailshaft and sensor conversions from an earlier 242, like the XJs have.

I don't necessarily need to stick with domestic either. The UZJ rear axle has a 9.5" ring gear and is 63.6" wide. Converting the brake lines to metric would be a snap(or vice versa) and that would open up a lot options for me. The front axle, I'm not to sure on.

[ntsqd]

What ever you do, I wouldn't mix axles. If you use a UZJ rear, use a UZJ front too. I say this not from any possible incompatability issue (not likely to be one), but from a replacement parts issue. Far easier when all of the axles bits come from the same donor or donor type.

There are likely only two type of ABS sensors, Hall Effect and Inductive. Hall's will always be a 3 wire connector (ground, source, & signal) while the Inductive's are usually 2 wire, but not always. Most important is that the tone ring have the same shape and number of teeth. Some are square cut and some are sinusoidal. Depending on the sensor the signal wave form can be quite different and the box reading the signal won't know what to do with one that is different from it's programming.

[Backwoods Rambler]

HOLY... if you look at the "customers rigs" sectio n on that site, there are some AWSOME WJ's on there. I've never really liked the looks of these trucks, but man they aparently flex pretty damn good with some mods. adn of course tall skinny mudders make ANY truck look alot more impressive eh. Great link.

Cheers

Dave

The IRO system uses a 3-link control arm system, which offers a TON of flexability.

[Root Moose]

I'm not certain about the UZJ but the TLCs previously had passenger offset differentials both front and rear. That means thinking hard about changing the transfer case for something that matches. Personally, I couldn't be bothered to go that route in spite of being a big fan of the TLC stuff.

Again, I'm not 100% certain on this but, IIRC, the Chevrolet stuff is ~65" in the front. Problem is they are low pinion.

As for ABS, I'd rip all that stuff out. That is just me. I'm not one of those guys that "fears" technology or anything (hell, my workshop looks like a hybrid between a redneck 4x4 shop and a chip fab shop) but for a truck I don't really see the point. ABS sucks in the deeper snow and gravel, and is only really any good on pavement. It's more trouble than it's worth IMO. I can threshold brake quite nicely on the track so on the street is trivial.

FWIW, I am planning on building some axles for my YJ that are around that width (~63.5"). I am starting with a `78 F250 front tube (HP44), Chev knuckles for the high steer, Scout II spindles. Yes, the Scout outers are not as strong as the full size stuff but with intended usage and using WARN Premium hubs I don't see a big problem for my intended usage. There is a post in the forums on binderbulletin.org that puts this combination at ~63.5".

For the rear I was planning on getting a custom full float 9" axle made up at Schreiner (http://www.9inchfloater.com/). I built a FF D44 for the rear of my XJ and wish I knew about Schreiner before hand because I certainly didn't save any money compared to what they charge. For width I was thinking ~62" but am not 100% set on that yet.

The other option is to go with a custom 9" housing in the front (Currie, etc.). Would be nice but might be a touch overkill for the intended usage for your Jeep. Not that there is really anything wrong with over kill. :D

[Fergie]

I'd like to stay as "off the shelf" as possible, whichever route I go.

If I went with an HP Ford, and had it cut down to Cehvy width, then I could run Chevy outers and axle shafts to maintain the aprts availability.

For my intended uses, I'm not even sure I need to go as heavy duty as a 9", but I am right at the cusp of a D35 being too weak, and bigger axles being overkill. I could go with a trussed super D35, and buy an extra shaft, just to have a spare 30 spline; I'd also have the flanges drilled to a more common BP than the 5x5 it is now. However, with the popularity of the new JKs, this isnt the issue it once was.

I hadnt even thought of the diff offset in the rear of the UZJ, it wont be an issue up front though as the UZJ is IFS.

FZJ axles wouldnt be entirely bad, but as was stated in a previous post in this thread, the steering linkage will be an issue; although it might be solved with some hi-steer arms.

I agree on the ABS issue. This is the first vehicle that I have had that has it, and I'm on the fence about it. Even the wife knows how to brake on slick roads properly. The speedo and tone rings can be overcome easily too.

The other item that is in the works is ditching the 42RE for an AW-4, that or just building the 42RE a bit better...it has lasted close to 150k with only routine maintenance.

[Root Moose]

I'm a fan of keeping easy to "track" parts as well.

I think cutting down a Ford housing is a reasonable tact if you feel comfortable doing it. I may go that route as well, who knows. I have a bunch of Scout stuff sitting on the shelf hence the logic about going the Scout outers.

IMO a Dana 35 is a non starter. I wouldn't spend any money on it at all. The housing and ring gear are way too small for a WJ that will see off-road usage.

You could consider the 9" overkill but don't forget that even "small" vehicles had them stock from Ford. Early Broncos for example. They are a light axle (in terms of weight) with lots of potential to build incredibly strong. I'm a big fan of them. If I needed dana 60 strength I'd run the 9" instead just for the weight savings. Ford put them in half tons as well.

Price what you want at that link I provided. For the price it seems like a great deal. Hell, I paid something like $650 for the WARN full float kit for my Dana 44. At Schreiner's prices you get all that plus a housing that you don't have to recondition/restore and a setup that is ready to go for disk brakes for not a lot more. IIRC what I had priced out was $800. All that was needed then was a locker and a third member housing.

FZJ, offset again...

Transmission... Too bad you couldn't easily retrofit the 545RFE. Otherwise just rebuild what you've got when it comes time. It's a four speed and seems decent enough. A rebuild by a good shop will make it stronger than stock when the time comes. Switching in a AW4 raises all kinds of questions like will it be install and forget or will you have to futz with one of those gear selection boxes, will the ECU for the EFI play nice when it is missing signals from the non-existent 42RE, etc., etc. I'd leave that alone.

[Root Moose]

And BTW, confirm the width of the Chevy setup. Spidey-sense says it is ~65" but that may be bad data in my brain pan.

[IXNAYXJ]

Just wondering, why are you even thinking about switching? While I'm no fan of the D30, it can work very easily up to 33's with minimal issues. As for the rear, that's a lot easier. Ford 8.8 or 9 inch, or XJ D44. I wouldn't be worried about parts...you won't be breaking any of those.

Besides, what are you going to break in an axle (realistically) that you can't carry as a spare and fix on the trail? IMHO, you're overthiking this, and whatever you do to make it easier to fix overseas will adversely affect it in the U.S.

Also, I'm running a '79 Ford HPD44 in my XJ and it was not easy to make work, nor cheap. I ended up narrowing the housing to Waggoneer width, which still puts it wider than a stock '30.

-----Matt-----

[Fergie]

Matt,

The problem I am having is that the WJ is 63.5" WMS-WMS, where the XJ is ~60". I'd love to be able to swap in any of the axles you mentioned, except the 8.8(narrower than an XJ axle), for the rear.

Also, I really don't want to have custom length axle shafts, front or rear. I would rather brain eff this right now in the planning stage, rather than try to design it in the building stage when the vehicle is torn apart.

I don't need an HP44 front; I've done that to an XJ already, and it was a hassle. Heck, I'd be happy with an LP44 from the waggy, just to be rid of the CV axles in the front of the WJ.

Then there is all the elctrical crap to deal with again!

[theksmith]

not sure why you wouldn't consider the new JK axles i mentioned? they are 1.75" wider than the WJ's, same bolt pattern as WJ, they are dana 44's with captive bearings, they have tone rings so you can still have the speedo and abs work with minimal effort, disc brakes, there is a huge aftermarket support for making them even stronger if you need, and you can even get rubicon ones with electric lockers and 4.10s already in them

[IXNAYXJ]

The problem I am having is that the WJ is 63.5" WMS-WMS, where the XJ is ~60". I'd love to be able to swap in any of the axles you mentioned, except the 8.8(narrower than an XJ axle), for the rear.I didn't realize the WJ was that much wider, wow. Maybe a set of Waggy 44's front and back? As to the 8.8, I'm running the Superior Super 8.8 kit that widens it a little bit (easily matches the HPD44 front now), elimates the c-clips and makes it a 5 on 5.5 bolt pattern. Big alloy shafts are part of the package too, of course. The big deal about the 8.8 to me is the stock disc brakes; I won't own a wheeler with drums now.

-----Matt-----