WJ lift question...

[ringin10]

Since I apparently cannot sell my 2" bb for my WJ....what mods do I need t make if I'm going to add these 2" coil spacers to my current 4" Iron Rock lift?

[97 zj steve]

what did the kit come with??

[ringin10]

Springs, shocks, sway bar links, track bar, and t-case lowering kit

http://www.ironrockoffroad.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=IROR&Product_Code=IR-W_4LK

[Fergie]

Since I apparently cannot sell my 2" bb for my WJ....what mods do I need t make if I'm going to add these 2" coil spacers to my current 4" Iron Rock lift?

Longer front LCAs, possibly adjustable for fine tuning.

Longer front UCAs. This is not a given, you'll need to check your front pinion angle once the pucks are in to determine if you will need adjustable UCAs.

Longer brake lines

Steering upgrades. I don't know if the set-up is a Y, T, inverted...whatever...something to look in to.

Longer rear LCAs, again, possible adjustable.

Custon triangulated upper CA, or just buy one of the A-arm spacers that is available.

Longer brake lines.

Slip Yoke Eliminator- Is this even available for your T-case?



I would start by looking at 6" kits that are available for the WJ, and seeing what all you need to piece together to get a complete kit, just my thought though.

Also, is losing out on $30 worth of lift pucks worth an extra $600(s.w.a.g.) of equipment and less reliability/drivability?

How many DSs are you going to puke with 6" as oppossed to 4"?

[97 zj steve]

pretty much what the person above me said...id go with all 8 adj. arms or even their long arms up front...break lines...slip yoke eliminator possibly depending cuz all wj's are different as are xj's and zj's...longer shocks...basically with the money youd spend to get everything for 6" of lift youd be better going with their 6.5" long arm kit and selling everything you have now but if i was you idk how long you had this lift but id keep wheeling it and see if you even need to go higher plus you can become a better driver then go bigger later

[ringin10]

Once I go with the double cardon ds for the front...there'll be more more puking of driveshafts! :sombrero:

It was just a thought....seriously...if the extra 2" is going to mean that much extra work & money...I won't even bother.

[Tanto]

I wouldn't do 6" with a SA kit. The ride would be incredibly choppy and put way too much stress on your stock arm connections. Most people go to a LA setup when they get over 4". However, I have seen guys put 6" under a WJ or ZJ on SAs.

Then you need to work on steering and drive line issues too...

[97 zj steve]

I wouldn't do 6" with a SA kit. The ride would be incredibly choppy and put way too much stress on your stock arm connections. Most people go to a LA setup when they get over 4". However, I have seen guys put 6" under a WJ or ZJ on SAs.

Then you need to work on steering and drive line issues too...

i know a guy with a zj at 6.5" on short arms and 35's and when flexed he can drop his tire under the rocker. sure the ride would be better with L.A. but then you gotta pony up another 1200-1700 or sumtin like that depending on company

[ringin10]

Wow....how about I keep the 2" BB kit for sale then? :D

I'm really not in the mood for all that wrenching and loss of $$$$$

[Fergie]

Wow....how about I keep the 2" BB kit for sale then? :D

I'm really not in the mood for all that wrenching and loss of $$$$$

I would say that is a good idea.

Unless you need to clear some big tires for rock crawling, or need to impress some local chicas at the mall, I'd skip that big a lift....period.

[jagular7]

Wow....how about I keep the 2" BB kit for sale then? :D

I'm really not in the mood for all that wrenching and loss of $$$$$

Exactly. Great choice.

Living in CA, where did you post the listing and pics? There are a lot of Jeep clubs and WJ/ZJ forums that I would think you get sell them from. Many people wouldn't trust someone just signing up and selling but you never know. Have you check in Pirate4x4? Local CL, local Jeep clubs.

Since a pic is a thousand words, many poly spacers can be mod'd to work in other applications. I've mod'd a set for a TJ to work with my XL7 in the rear. Had to drill a bigger center hole.

Lastly, you can save them for your local 4wd Xmas party for gag gifts. Just give 1 so they would have to buy the other to have a matching pair.

[ringin10]

I've posted it on Orange County Craigslist and on the North American Grand Cherokee forum (under G.C. for sale)

http://www.nagca.com/forum/index.php?sid=a6f231cc9f4658a448c5810f72b55df6

[madizell]

I would not add spacers to a manufactured lift kit unless you are really good at dialing suspension parameters. You will be changing caster, camber, Ackerman angle and pinion angle, and your kit may or may not be adjustable enough to accommodate the changes. 6 inches of lift is a lot of lift and requires engineering to accomplish safely, especially with a Uni-body vehicle. If you really need to have a taller truck, find a taller kit.

[Tanto]

The Clayton LA kit is the way to go if you decide to do anything over 6 inches (actually the way to go generally if you have the coin). It will accommodate up to 8 inches although big lift is not my style, most people who do this get there by adding spacers on top of 6 inch coils. I think somewhere around 4-5.5 inches is just about right for the WJ.

Link: Clayton Hard Arm Lift (http://www.claytonoffroad.com/index.aspx?sdr=/get.doc.aspx&qs=LD:Parts%20List&l=make!model!modelEx&p=Jeep!Grand%20Cherokee!WJ)

[Fergie]

I would not add spacers to a manufactured lift kit unless you are really good at dialing suspension parameters. You will be changing caster, camber, Ackerman angle and pinion angle, and your kit may or may not be adjustable enough to accommodate the changes. 6 inches of lift is a lot of lift and requires engineering to accomplish safely, especially with a Uni-body vehicle. If you really need to have a taller truck, find a taller kit.

I'd change your choice of the work "kit" to "system".

All too often, kits do not address the issues you have stated, and in fact, you need several "kits" to form a marginal "system". Rarely do proprietary products function complementary to other stand alone products.

Pucks on coils are plenty good for 85% of the folks out there, and there is nothing wrong, per se, with what he is suggesting.

[wjtoy]

Ringin10 - sell the bb, the ride will be horrible and it is unsafe on the WJ to stack a 2" spacer on top of a 4" coil. Add the San Diego Craigslist. I live in SD and always check the OC too.

[madizell]

I'd change your choice of the work(d?) "kit" to "system".

All too often, kits do not address the issues you have stated, and in fact, you need several "kits" to form a marginal "system". Rarely do proprietary products function complementary to other stand alone products.

Pucks on coils are plenty good for 85% of the folks out there, and there is nothing wrong, per se, with what he is suggesting.

You must have some brands in mind and without the names, it is hard to comment. Can't say I have ever seen a 6" lift "kit" or "system" (at this point a distinction without a difference) sold by a major brand name in this country that gave no thought to steering geometry in their designs. Quite the contrary. Seems to me that all of them have accommodated these many build parameters at least well enough to place the final result withing a range of adjustability that allows for reasonable steering alignments when installed as intended.

My point was only that a spring spacer intended to install over stock components might have been determined not to push adjustments outside stock parameters, but the same spacer on top of an after market assembly may well do just that, i.e., make alignment impossible or at the least, problematic. Or it might not, but who knows if it has not been determined. Neither the maker of the spacer nor the maker of the lift kit are going to recommend you mix their products on your truck unless they already know they will successfully mix.

I put spring spacers in the same category with lift blocks for leaf springs. Not the best option going, and certainly not "plenty good". Spacers pre-droop upper and lower arms, placing them below the median of their designed range of travel. You then have to adjust all the adjustable parts to compensate or your steering will be off. You probably also should change out your shocks. I acknowledge that this can be done. I just don't feel it is a "good" thing to do.

[juicexj24]

If you going to use some 2" spacers on the 4" coils:

Adjustable control arms-upper/lower (front & rear)

Duel Steering Stablizer to control the DW.

Front Driveshaft (depending on the year of your WJ)

Possible Brakeline extensions.

I'm at 3" with IRO coils, 3/8" Old Man EMU Trim Spacers, extended bump stops from Kevin's offroad, DT 8000 socks, JKS Parts (discos, bar pins, HD tie rod, adjustable rear lower control arms) IRO coil spring retainers. 235/85r16 Toyo Open Country AT. I run a duel steering stablizer kit from Kevin's Offroad to stop the death wobble (wasn't bad but after dealing with it on my XJ) no more.

Juice

[madizell]

Any ideas on why you have death wobble? Would you expect to have the same issue with the same wheels and tires if they were installed on a stock suspension (assuming there is room)? Just wondering if it a tire-generated issue or related to something else.

I have had the problem but only on lifted trucks with, of course, larger tires, and have never really found the exact cause. Dampers only cover the problem, they don't make it go away, and even if you don't get a feelable frequency response from your tires, it is likely still there eating away at the tread. The dampers only stop the oscillation from escalating. Personally, I think it is more related to increased tire width and diameter (which increases leverage of the tire over steering pivots) than to lift per se, but have never been able to pin it down.

[juicexj24]

When I say DW, a slight shimmy. This is a comman problem on WJ's lifted 3" and above.

http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/wj/wj_dualsssetup.html

I have 235/85r16 which is a 32" tire. I have had DW on my XJ with 33's and 35's tires. Just giving out the info.

Thanks

[Fergie]

You must have some brands in mind and without the names, it is hard to comment. Can't say I have ever seen a 6" lift "kit" or "system" (at this point a distinction without a difference) sold by a major brand name in this country that gave no thought to steering geometry in their designs. Quite the contrary. Seems to me that all of them have accommodated these many build parameters at least well enough to place the final result withing a range of adjustability that allows for reasonable steering alignments when installed as intended.

My point was only that a spring spacer intended to install over stock components might have been determined not to push adjustments outside stock parameters, but the same spacer on top of an after market assembly may well do just that, i.e., make alignment impossible or at the least, problematic. Or it might not, but who knows if it has not been determined. Neither the maker of the spacer nor the maker of the lift kit are going to recommend you mix their products on your truck unless they already know they will successfully mix.

I put spring spacers in the same category with lift blocks for leaf springs. Not the best option going, and certainly not "plenty good". Spacers pre-droop upper and lower arms, placing them below the median of their designed range of travel. You then have to adjust all the adjustable parts to compensate or your steering will be off. You probably also should change out your shocks. I acknowledge that this can be done. I just don't feel it is a "good" thing to do.

Whether it is a spacer or a new coil, any type of lift pre-droops the CAs, even with the use of adjustable, stock location arms. Until you start dealing with control arm drop brackets (available for the XJ and ZJ) or Long arms, the stock geometry, using stock locations is never the same once a vehicle is lifted.

Blocks are bad in my book because of the extra leverage they create with the new Moments and such, but I think that as with all things, spacers are perfectly acceptable. After all, companies like OME market "trim packers" as part of their suspension systems.


On to the death wobble comments...
Death Wobble is NOT a light shimmy. Death wobble is when you hit a small bump or pothole, and your suspension goes in to some crazy harmonic vibration, shaking your entire vehicle to pieces until you slow down and pull over to the side of the interstate in the middle of Phoenix Rush hour traffic...

I had DW on my old XJ, and it was due to wallowed out UCA bushings on the axle side. I replaced these and the problem was gone.

I would surmise that the dual stabilizers do mask some inherent design issue when the steering angles increase with the lift...just a guess though.

[juicexj24]

I know what Death Wobble is, I have an XJ at 5.5" with long arms, which for about 8 years was at that height with short arms with no drop brackets. It takes work to get the angles set up right to keep from having death wobble. A worn tie rod end, hogged up control arm hole to name a few. The double steering stablizer that is sold from Kevin's offroad does most likely mask but it does keep this from happening. Iron Rock Offroad sells a duel one as well. I have been to the dentist to get my fillings put back in...LOL with DW. Not a fun feeling at 55mph and the XJ goes to the shakes.