FWC vs Outfitter

[theMec]

For various reasons, we are leaning more towards a popup slide in. It appears the obvious lightweight choices are FWC/ATC and Outfitter. Outfitter is 40 minutes away so obviously I have to consider them. Yes, I know Outfitter is more expensive.

Looking at the specs, the FWC Hawk is 795# dry and the Outfitter Caribou 6.5 is 930#
but
the Caribou weight includes more standard options so looks like a wash weightwise.

What about holding up on 4x4 terrain? I know FWC does well. Has anyone heard about Outfitter? I did check out Wyoming Shooter's thread on his Apex 8 earlier this year. There wasn't much mention of 4 wheeling though.
Thanks
steve

[kcowyo]

I think there is some good input in this thread (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10574), especially if you follow some of the links provided. Firsthand reports of taking an Outfitter "off-road." Although don't follow the Jesses Life link, it looks like his site has been hacked.

Here's a thread from RV.net (http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/21166782.cfm)and a family who took their Apex over the White Rim Trail in Utah. And here is another (http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/20853292.cfm) that made the same trip.

If you do a search on RV.net for "Outfitter Caribou", there are 43 matches. Somewhere in there should be some good info to help or confuse you even more.


:campfire:

[marke]

Hi, I have a FWC Hawk and love it. I have had it off road several times without any issues at all. 800 miles of gravel road to Purdhoe Bay, many off-highway roads in Death Valley and Utah. Granted I wasn't rock crawling or anything like that. No matter how light a pop-up is, it still has a much high center of gravity so you need to go slow. They are surprisingly tough units. I hit a patch of ice and hail in Utah and slid into a mountain side. The camper ripped all of the turn buckles off and bent the front bed rail and the cab but it had just a few dents and scratches. One piece of advice for any FWC owner, check the turn buckles OFTEN and use a lock nut to ensure they don't come loose. I learned this the hard way. A rather embarassing story to be told after lots of suds! Mark

[Wyoming Shooter]

Sir - I wish I could speak with the voice of experience but, circumstances have prevented me from using the Outfitter Apex 8 much yet this Wyoming spring. My sense is that the Outfitter is "more camper" than the FWC - more expensive, more heavy, more comfortable, more well equipped, more tall, more top heavy, requires more truck, etc. It's all good if you're into "more". Not so good if "less is more". What a country - choices! Best of luck to you. ELN

[SunMan]

I've got a Hawk and love it. I don't know anything about the Outfitter, it doesn't appear to be made for serious off road use and looks much heavier than a FWC. I'd bet it's all wood and particle board. Guess it depends on how you plan to use it.

FWC has been doing their thing for a long time and for good reason. Look around, you can find used one's reasonably priced. They still aren't cheap, but worth every penny IMHO.

[theMec]

Thanks for the info guys. One thing I'm learning is that the weight on the web sites may not be accurate. So what looks like a lighter weight camper is not.

I had a chance to check a used Outfitter Caribou 6.5 at the Hallmark plant. (Yeah, it's nice to have 3 popup mfgs nearby.) There were some options on it but it weighed 1400#. The web site says the dry weight is 930#. The salesman showing me the camper said that the 930 was without benches, stove anything. Of course, he's a hallmark guy but he also wanted to sell me the camper. While I was there I checked out the Hallmark equivalent - the Milner. Pretty nice. What's the Milner weigh w/ the standard features? 1400#.
By the way, both of these were nice campers. Just too heavy for me. Add water, fuel, gear and people and I'm at my 2100# payload. Too much. Yes, I did ask why the Caribou was on the Hallmark lot. The roof leaked. So the customer traded it in for a Hallmark. That's what the sales guy said anyway. Nice saleman. No pressure at all.

So my next step, is to spec out a hawk or ATC equiv and figure out what the real live weight would be. Thanks.

[theMec]

I've got a Hawk and love it. I don't know anything about the Outfitter, it doesn't appear to be made for serious off road use and looks much heavier than a FWC. I'd bet it's all wood and particle board.

Outfitter's claim to be "Fully welded aluminum frame" but I saw a lot of wood on the lower part. Maybe the aluminum frame is inside ... or not.

[slooowr6]

Just a information point, my Bobcat, same as FWC Eagle, weights 800# with everything, propane, sleeping bag, fridge and etc., in it except water.

[Wyoming Shooter]

... I'd bet it's all wood and particle board...

How much you wanna bet pard? :PROFSheriffHL:

[Stan@FourWheel]

I don't know much about the Outfitter Campers, but that is what I have noticed too.

The Four Wheel Campers seem to be a bit smaller & lighter, lower profile, and more geared towards the durability / utility approach (a few steps up from tent camping).

The Outfitter Campers seem to be geared for the person who likes to go exploring, but have a little extra comfort at the same time.

I have talked with a few customers that own Outfitter Campers, and they all seem to be very happy with the purchase.

If you look at both campers in person you will find they are very different creatures.

It is best to do your homework and see what you like the best. Everyone is going to want something different. Like Wyoming Shooter said, it is nice to have choices !

================================================== ==


Sir - I wish I could speak with the voice of experience but, circumstances have prevented me from using the Outfitter Apex 8 much yet this Wyoming spring. My sense is that the Outfitter is "more camper" than the FWC - more expensive, more heavy, more comfortable, more well equipped, more tall, more top heavy, requires more truck, etc. It's all good if you're into "more". Not so good if "less is more". What a country - choices! Best of luck to you. ELN



.

[Kermit]

You found my dream rig.

http://inlinethumb50.webshots.com/42225/2890379110093498191S425x425Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2890379110093498191BFIpcu)

[SunMan]

How much you wanna bet pard? :PROFSheriffHL:

No offense intended there Sherriff! Just an assumption due to the weight stats and what I've heard about other brands. You know what they say about ASSumptions, but wasn't tryin to be one!

[theMec]

Bob Ward, from Outfitter, replied to my mail about what the 930# dry weight includes (for the Caribou 6.5'). It includes the standard features on this page. ( http://outfittermfg.com/Campers/Caribou/Caribou_6-5/Caribou%206.5.htm )That's a lot of stuff. Unfortunately Outfitter does not offer a shell model so I can scratch them off the list - since I don't want all the "stuff".

The FWC Hawk spec says 700# dry weight. Anyone know what features 700# includes?
Thanks.

[Rockcrawler]

This list on the FWC website shows what each camper includes and their base weight/options.

http://www.fourwh.com/specs.html

It also says that shells are approx 530 - 590 lbs depending on the model since it sounds like you might be going in that direction.

Kyle

[theMec]

thanks rockcrawler, I didn't want to assume that std features where included in the 700. but when I look at the list of std features and estimate the weights, then add to the shell model, it's looks to be about 700. Thanks.

[Rockcrawler]

I can honestly say that I barely know my hawk camper is back there on the Dodge. I lost about 1 mpg... maybe 2 and it handles quite nicely. I don't think you can go wrong w/ the FWC... I'm really enjoying mine...


Thanks for talking me into it KC! Of course, now it is a slippery slope of mods for the Dodge AND the Jeep!

Kyle

[Steve_in_29]

I don't know much about the Outfitter Campers, but that is what I have noticed too.

The Four Wheel Campers seem to be a bit smaller & lighter, lower profile, and more geared towards the durability / utility approach (a few steps up from tent camping).

The Outfitter Campers seem to be geared for the person who likes to go exploring, but have a little extra comfort at the same time.

I have talked with a few customers that own Outfitter Campers, and they all seem to be very happy with the purchase. One guy really liked his Outfitter Camper, but said is was a bit too big and a little too heavy to comfortably do the cruel 4x4 off roads he liked to attack.

It is best to do your homework and see what you like the best. Everyone is going to want something different. Like Wyoming Shooter said, it is nice to have choices !

================================================== ==





.Well even though I am new here I guess I will chime in on this since that is a pic of my Outfitter Apex9.5 with me and the wife in front of it.

As far as construction goes, Outfitters are made with welded aluminum framing in the walls, floors and roof that is vacuum bonded to the inner/outer paneling and insulation, with a fiberglass tub section and cabover insert. Besides the cabinets there is almost no wood used in the current models. While it isn't listed on their site they also make a slightly smaller version of the Apex8 that will work on a Toyota Tundra (NOT the Double Cab though) and it retains the wetbath. This can make a nice back country rig on a properly set up truck as several owners over on RV.net have shown.

FWC and Outfitters basically fill two different niches at opposite ends of the pop-up spectrum. Yes Outfitters are larger then a FWC but they also have quite a few more amenities. For example my rig has 44gal of water, dual 20lb LP tanks, a full wetbath with cassette toilet, 4 AGM batteries (440AH), 270W of solar, stove, oven, microwave, water heater, 20KBTU furnace, 4.2cf fridge, A/C, power lifted roof, 60x80 queen bed, can carry and sleep 5 in a pinch, and has enough storage to bring over a months worth of food and supplies. With its heated basement it can also be used when the temps dip well below freezing with no special preparations to its plumbing. Even with all that my truck is barely on the overloads and still sits slightly tail high when loaded for a trip.

As far as capabilities go Outfitters fall between a FWC setup and the Fuso type rigs, while encompassing many of the better qualities of both (most of the off-roadability of the smaller rig with all the amenities of the larger). It is the largest truck camper I would try to take over demanding terrain and even so I feel the stock F350 is most of the limiting factor in its off-roadability. Not to say that a lifted F350 with a flexy suspension wouldn't do better off-road, just talking about a mostly stock truck here that can still support its listed GVWR.

I have 30yrs of wheeling experience, to include the Hammer Trails so I do know a thing or two about off-roading. Capabilities are all relative.

As an example during a trip to Baja with another Outfitter owner we were feeling good about how far away from things we were getting compared to the Class A's and 5'vers we had left on the pavement. That is until we stopped for a beer and had a group of Jeepers that were tenting it even further into the boonies pull up. Of course they were MUCH dirtier and smellier then we were. Now taking the desire for off-roadability to the extreme, a group of dirtbike riders would have been able to get even further off the beaten path while a group on horseback would have put us all to shame.

So if a persons needs lean towards rougher, tighter trails then a Toyota/FWC would be the way to go, albeit with much more spartan nights of camping. For anything short of that an Outfitter will serve just fine and give much more comfortable living conditions while on the trail.

When I feel the need to do the really rough stuff I drive my heavily modified Early Bronco and tent it. And I can guarantee you that it will go places a full size truck with a FWC won't. Does that make that combo bad or unsuitable...no. It just means people need to be honest about what their true needs are. Both as far as off-roadability as-well-as creature comforts are concerned.

As was mentioned....choices are good.

[masterplumber]

As some of the above have mentioned choices are great. I have a '87 FWC Granby that has seen a lot of off road miles including many of what most people would consider fairly extreem trails to take a camper on 3.5 to 4 ratings. I also have a F350 to carry it with & I'm a fairly experienced driver. As others have observed the weights posted are not what yours will weigh driving down the road so look for the lowest starting weight with the least comforts you can live with. My rig without water, food , or family weighs 9400 lbs which just happens to be it's GVWR so I'm technically overloaded when we leave on a trip. I have what I feel I need including tools & supplies but not a lot of toys onboard & no generator etc... For the places I want to go this is as heavy as I'm willing to get but for my wife to be comfortable this is the least she can live with on most trips over 2 days in length. If you haven't already you really need to decide just what are your minimum comfort requirements in a rig & also what are the roughest trails your likely to take it on regularly & then maybe buy used - that way you can try something & if it doesn't quite fill a particular area you can usually get back out of it what you have in it & try something else. Well that's my ramble on the topic - hope it helps.
Doug

[milo12]

I have an Outfitter Apex 9.5

Here is a link to my comments.
http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16380

It is a great camper as long as you work within its limitations. I want more offroad capability so it is a new FWC for me.

One comment about the aluminum frame. I have a piece of it sitting in front of me. Long story, some fool hit me and tore off the left front jack. Well the aluminum in the frame is unbelievably thin. I'm surprised it can even hold the camper up. But I guess if it was thicker the camper would be even heavier.

[Mit Fuso]

I can only speak from my experience with the 9.5 Outfitter, which I had tricked out (by Outfitter) with AC, oven, roof racks (the idea was to carry a kayak, but haven't done that), awnings, and maybe a few other doo-dads. It's on a 2005 F-250 diesel with custom Bilstein shocks and suspension airbags and compressor/tank system which I can also use for impact wrenches, refilling tires, etc. I'm a believer in these mods.

As to the Outfitter, my only gripes have been about details, small stuff I've been able to take care of. I suggest that anyone considering buying one to take a trip to the factory. I replaced a Lance with the Outfitter, and my first experience felt like I had gotten into some kinda sports car. The lower weight and profile/reduced drag, I guess. I modified it to expand the lower bunk a bit rather than consign someone to sleeping in the big (huge) pullout drawer that stows under the bed. It's very handy to have that storage for long things.

I was afraid of the "cloth." I don't know what the material is, but it seems to have amazing insulation qualities; at least I expected it to be cold, as we do a lot of camping in the late fall and winter. We also camp in the deserts; so far I haven't used the AC or the awnings, but the one over the door I got in case of rain.

I've just switched over to a Mitsubishi Fuso FG diesel, dual-wheel, and I am in the process of modifying it; however, that's a different post, eh? Anyhow, I'm going to be selling the Ford/Outfitter or the Outfitter alone and the pickup separately soon. I can't drive two at once, dammit!

I'll be happy to answer any questions about my experience with the Outfitter.

[kylekai]

Last year I compared Outfitter to Hallmark, and found the Hallmark to be a better camper. Something you should also consider: customer support. I asked around, a lot, and found Hallmark customer support to be much better than that coming from Outfitter.

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